A few days ago, I decided to install Baldur's Gate (just the first one). I loved the game when I was young but I couldn't help but cheat in order to progress... Many people seem to like the game very much (and probably played it properly) but I have problems with it that makes me frustrated at it.

Last time, I made a Human Cleric with about 16~18 for STR, DEX, CON and WIS and about 10 INT and 3 CHA (in Neverwinter Nights (3rd Ed. rules), those would be very good starting stats); and I was grouped up with Imoen, Montarion and Xzar. From there, I went to the Friendly Arm Inn (as instructed) and that mage guy who attacks you from the steps wiped out everyone except my character-- and the reason I survived was because he ran out of spells... I had casted bless and protection from evil to help.

From memory (years ago)... I died a lot except when I cheated by making a fighter and used the export/import system to read a book of STR which can make your STR go up to 25.

The other problem I have is with the resting system... I much prefer Neverwinter Night's system because you can sleep almost anywhere which helps if you're a spell caster. Baldur's Gate requires you to sleep for 8 game hours which is annoying because of the experience point cap, you have to sleep often since you don't get many spells.

However, I'm thinking about buying the Baldur's Gate set (BG1, BG1x, BG2, BG2x) (and maybe Icewind Dale) and making a multiclass Fighter/Cleric.

Anyway. I'm hoping that I could get tips on having an enjoyable time.

You said it. .

Don't know about BG1, but in BG2, whenever I encountered a tough mage (say a Lich) I found it prudent to run instead of fighting. This forced the mage to either walk(slowly) towards me, or stand in one place doing nothing while his protections whithered out. After some time passed, I would run back and try to attack him, or retreat again if he has a second volley of protections. Sure it does not sound very exciting, but cowardice is the best strategy when you are weak.

Also, I found that especially when I had 6 member parties I did not use every single character to their maximum, since it involved too much micromanagement. Still, in some battles that sometimes would be the only way to go.

Otherwise, I personally found an Archer (a kit of the Ranger class, not sure if it exists in BG1) to be the easiest to play. Fighters are decent with bows too, so if you are bent on using a fighter that is also an option.

Also, stock up on high enchantment weapons, even if they are horrible. This will help you for fighting powerful magical creatures. Doing 1 point of damage per attack is infinitely better than not doing any damage at all.

Yeah, I don't think you are supposed to fight the mage there. If he wipes out your party I'd say that was a good hint you weren't supposed to take him on at that point. But its been years since I played that game and I certainly never finished it.

Isn't that bad game design if you find out that you weren't supposed to go there retrospectively?

Dunno, Baldur's Gate II had some very difficult battles... The Dragons, in particular, always wiped me out very quickly, since I always relied heavily on magic, and their magic resistance kinda blew it.

Lower magical resistance * 3 followed by a couple of spell triggers filled with magic missiles. Will bring down any dragon in the game (not in the expansion though).

What about the problem with the resting system. Didn't anyone have a problem with that? In Baldur's Gate, you would effectively be spending days to complete an area but in Neverwinter Nights, you could keep resting which would take less than half a game hour per rest.

Also, what are some good class combinations? Is multi-classing better than dual-classing?

I found the resting convention to be a little annoying. Unless there is some mod to fix it, I think you are stuck with resting a lot. For BG2 for example my in game time was around 92 days at its end, exactly because I had to in effect rest before every single party of enemies, in order to recharge my spells and heal my party. I think you just have to get used to it.

I personally always prefer the pure power of a single classed character. Multi-classing is only available to non-human characters, while dual-classing is only for humans (and half-elves, if they are in BG1). That will be the main factor in your choice. I think that multi-classing is inferior to dual-classing since it permanently leaves you with a weaker than average character, while dual-classing is a little more flexible in that regard.

I like Cleric/Wizard (lots and lots of spells!), Fighter/Wizard (for defensive and invisibility spells) and Fighter/Cleric (for some defensive and healing spells) for multi-classing. For dual-classing I like anything combined with a Thief class (hide in shadows and find traps are always useful to have)

Ahh, baldurs gate... I prefer BG2 myself, and I have probably spent more time playing that game than going to school

First of all, GB does not use 3rd ed rules. It used Ad&D. In short;
Str good for anyone. Dex good for anyone (AC bonus is not limited by armor). Con does not have any effect over 16 for a non-fighter. Wis should probably be at 18 for a cleric. Int and cha can be pretty low (unless you are a spell-caster, then int should be high).

A lot of people seemed to be having troubles with that particular mage, as did i the first few times. Try gaining a few levels so you at least can use some disabling spell on him (hold person, fear, charm or whatnot). Or summon a lot of skeletons and let him beat on those until he is out of spells

Multi-classing is pretty crappy, as you only get the bonuses from the best class (not the two added together), or the average bonus. For example; you will only get half hp for from each level-up, and only the best class base attack bonus (if you have a level 6/6 fighter/cleric, you will have the base attack of a level 6 fighter, not a level 6 fighter + a level 6 cleric).

Dual-classing however can be very powerful, as the xp required to gain higher levels is much greater than the xp required for lower levels. So you could (in BG2, as i cant remember the xp cap on BG1), start out a fighter and level that until level 9 and still reach the maximum level of whatever class you want him to be. That way you could get a lot more HP (and better weapon skills) than you would otherwise.

You should be able to kill the wizard before entering the inn. Otherwise you would not meet up with Jaheira and what's his name. Try fighting creatures before you go there to level up. Another trick would be to get a hold of a silence (or confusion, or something similar) spell, save the game before you encounter the mage and hit him with the spell before he does anything. If it does not work the first time, quit the game without saving and try again. an amusing note, the AI is not very I. I was trying to surround a bunch of goblins to surprise them, clicked where I wanted to move my main character, I hoped he would take a long route around but he walked through the goblins who did nothing but watch. I don't think they were surprised when I attacked. As for resting, check under options I think. It may have something about resting for full recovery. I know BG II does.

Isn't there an issue with dual-classing, that if I were to level to x with Cleric, then dual-class with a fighter, then I would need to level to x+x+1 before I can cast even level 1 cleric spells?

Is there much of a bonus for levels of a single class above 20 (for BG2x)?

So a level 24/20 cleric/fighter (or other way around) would be no where near as good as a level 40 fighter?

Sorry, forgot to mention. If you try to hit him with silence or similar, cast the spell when you first see him, that is before he starts speaking.

[edit]

As I recall, the cheats say there is a magic ring at the base of a tree outside Baldur's Gate (map coordinates 0,0). Has anyone found it?

Not really an "issue", but yes. But because the XP needed for the lower levels (1-9) is pretty low, it doesn't take much time (the last level might be a bit annoying though). It's usually best to start with a class that doesn't need levels as much, for example a fighter or a thief. Casters are better to use as the "second class", as they will benefit more from higher levels. Though in BG1 i would probably play as a pure class.

In the BG2 expansion, you will gain high-level abilities after a certain amount of xp (usually around level 19 or 22, depending on class). Most of these are very good. But you can still get a large amount of these if you multi-class (one of the only benefits of multi-classing), as you get abilities based of your total xp and not the level (iirc).

Well, the base attack bonus and health gain slows down (iirc) after level 20, and a 24 cleric/20 fighter will have plenty of high-level abilities. The biggest problem might be that you won't get that many spell slots for the cleric abilities until quite late in the game

I usually run when the mage tries to talk to me, and position myself nearby as many guards as possible, during the fight they will hit him so much he wont have time too cast spells . dosen't work every time but it a big help.

Neverwinter night is for pussies, to be able to just "rest" for a few seconds and then get all your spells back sucks.

You should definitely but all the baldurs gate + icewind dale games! i personally have them all . and don't forget to patch..

Also, the record on baldurs gate 1 is 15 min . using exploits of course.. totally sick.

Baldurs gate is for real gamers!!

I REALLY like BG2, wonderfull game, BG1 on the contrary was a bit too hard at the beginning (but this is because you have so few hp that even a house mouse can kill you ) , but still very entertaining. My "strategy" for BG was to save often, load often, and generally try to power play.

If you play Baldur's Gate II, there's some unofficial patch that fixes roughly 500 bugs with it. (no exaggeration)

I played through most of Baldur's Gate I and II on Hard mode using a plain mage as my main character. I didn't die that often, though archers become deadly on Hard.

I'd have Montaron or some other thief scout out ahead with stealth, while my main party held back. If I found a group of baddies I'd soften them up with some destructive magic, and then they'd charge my party. A good idea to have them run into a bunch of summoned creatures if they're particularly dangerous. Try to make every battle into an ambush if you can.

One thing I found: before leveling up, drink a potion of endurance. You get more HP that way.

[EDIT] Unofficial BGII TOB patch here. Look at all those fixes!

Most of those fixes arent actually bug-fixes, but rather gameplay tweaks. I do play with some of them.

They all look like fixes to me. Abilities that don't work correctly, bugs that don't let you finish either quests or the game, items/spells that don't work the way they're supposed to, or don't match their descriptions, etc.

Ah, maybe those are primarily fixes (though there are some border-line cases). There is another patch for gameplay tweaks (some of which are nice and boredom-reducing).

I really liked the BG game engine, when I got into game programming I wanted to make a BG style engine but instead of D+D create a setting for my favorite gaming system:

Space: 1889 Roleplaying in a more civilized era

But BG games nothing if not art intensive so that put an end to that dream....

I played through all of Baldur's Gate , but it's been a long time since then and I don't remember much. I remember enjoying it mostly.

I do however strongly recommend IceWind Dale I , II , and the expansion pack Heart Of Winter , they were really fun and I've played through them all at least twice.

For Baldur's Gate , if you use a dwarven character with high Constitution you get a better chance of making your saving throws against spells and magical effects. Rangers with high Dexterity make good archers that can also fight well and have some stealth ability when wearing light armor. I always make sure that everyone in the party has a ranged weapon in the quick slot so that way if you pause it quick you can damage at least one enemy decently before they get to you. Don't forget to scout with a thief character first though.

I got the Baldur's Gate 4-pack today. It's a pity with these packs because I already have BG1 (but not the expansion).

However, I've got assessment closing in so I can't play it for a while.

Suffice to say, you probably wont see me online for a week or so after November 15.

[edit]
What can fighters gain except for level 4 weapon proficiency (and high HP)?

I think they have one of the highest hit dice (number of hitpoints added per level) of the usual characters - d10 iirc.

I was thinking about dual-classing, but starting with a fighter and maximising my long blade proficiency, then going to cleric immediately after.

Firstly: Is there something I might be overlooking?
Secondly: Could one of those things be that I wouldn't be able to use long blade weapons if I become partly cleric?

Also, can dual classed characters put additional levels into their first class?

I can't see anything that would be immediately crippling about that strategy. It definitely sounds like you will have a good character. You may also want to put a couple of points into the sword and shield style if you can.

IIRC the only things that generally get you into trouble are armours. I.e. if you a dual class wizard/fighter you won't be able to wear armour and cast spells at the same time. Clerics do not have this issue however, as far as I know you won't have any issues with retaining all of your proficiencies.

Dual Class characters, once they switch, can never improve their original class again. So no, once you become a cleric you are done with that class in terms of adding levels to it.

That can be a long time if you want your original class to be high level. I usually try to dualclass out at 5th-7th level fighter so they're not vulnerable too long.

What about 1 single fighter level, then the rest cleric or mage?

It depends on what that single level of fighter can get you. I would stay with fighter until I had specialization or master level in one weapon to get good attack bonuses. Shields are better later on , but always helpful.

If I was playing myself , I usually leave the healing to other party members , usually a cleric and a druid to get spell variety along with a mage for timely firepower. Add two heavy warriors to keep the uglies busy and a thief for stealth , trap removal and unlocking chests. So I generally keep everyone single class , that way they reach the better abilities , spells and powers sooner on in the game.

How many fighter levels gives you x number of specialisations in a particular weapon?

I don't remember how many levels it takes , it's been too long. I might have to go and reinstall Baldur's Gate! Then I'll never get anything done.

You get to pick a couple of proficiencies at character creation and then every few levels or so you get to pick another one.
p. 92 manual

Level of Proficiency  | Points spent | Bonus to Hit | Bonus Damage | Attacks/Round
Proficient                    1              0            0                1
Specialized                   2             +1           +2               3/2
Master                        3             +3           +3               3/2
High Master                   4             +3           +4               3/2
Grand Master                  5             +3           +5                2

Only fighters can spend more than two proficiency points on any single weapon class proficiency (not rangers / paladins) . Warriors get an extra attack at 7th level.

Is there any problem with starting at level 1 in Baldur's Gate II?

Or is it like NWN:HoTU campaign where it levels you to 15 before you start?

In BG2 you start at level 7 or 8.

Speaking of the fighter/cleric:
i'm pretty sure that in BG 1&2 you will be restricted to cleric only weapons, so no long blade. You should focus on mace weapons instead.

Yeah, I just read about that in a website -- the BG pack doesn't come with any manuals.

It's a pity that the multi-class/dual-class system is inflexible (unlike in NWN)... What are some nice class combinations, do you think?

The fact is that BG1&2 use the 2nd edition, NWN the 3rd, which gives your more chances to make powerfull characters, but also less credible characters (es. paladin\sorcerer). The 2nd edition restricts you more but enables, IMO, only "realistic" choices, which is good.

As for a good character, i prefer to not multiclass in 2nd edition games and usually go with a straight class. In BG2 i'd go as a sorcerer (at later levels you simply are a weapon of mass destruction ), in BG1 as anything but mages (too weak and too few hp at those low levels). Interesting multi/dual classes would be fighter/rogue, fighter\cleric, fighter/mage.
This is of course just my personal opinion

Do you prefer dual or multi?

Also, is there any reason to level up through BG1 and transfer the character to BG2?
The problem I'd probably have is that the class kits are better than the vanilla classes which aren't available in BG1 -- meaning that I would have to start again in BG2 anyway. For example, multiclassing a Kensai/SpecialistMage would be better than Fighter/Mage because you'd get better stuff yet you don't have to worry about the heavy armour problem...

I disagree, in some ways. With dual-classing you can effectively get a level 28 character (or so) in BG2, because of how the way the XP adds up (and the fact that different classes level up at different rates). In 3rd ed most classes get their good abilities quite late, so it's usually not worth it to train several classes (the expection being prestige classes, which are pretty good at lower levels, and often requires two or more classes trained beforehand).

You can only multiclass "pure" classes (except for gnomes who become illusionists if multiclassed with a mage) (and only dualclass to a pure class). Though a kensai dualclassed to mage is one of the most powerful combinations in BG2 (also most cheesy). Also, you can have specialist mages in BG1 (they are not that great anyway).

But yes, it's usually better to make a new character in BG2. Esp if you have a cleric, since the cleric kits have (almost) no drawbacks but plenty of bonuses (same goes for fighter->berserker (almost no drawbacks) and the thief kits).

My favourite class by far in BG2 is the sorceress But it's probably not a good "first game"-choice as it's pretty unforgiving to mistakes (you pick spells, and you are stuck with them). If you have the expansion, the wild wizard (oslt) is pretty fun

I also like the assassin a lot (its poison attack is much better than described in the kit description). It could be dual-classed with a fighter to get a pretty lethal poisonous whirlwind attack

What level do people usually stop leveling the kensai at to move onto the mage?
Surely the next x+1 levels would appear slow?

I installed a BG mod known as "TuTu" which supposedly merges BG1 with the engine (and features) of BG2.

So you cannot unlearn them? (which you can in NWN)

Another combination that was mentioned in a website or two was multi-classed Ranger/Cleric. What is your take on that?

DELETED

forget it... you ware aware of tutu already...

Can't remember exactly, but i think it was at level 9 (in BG2 w/o expansion). And yes, the mage levels (esp 9 and 10) will be pretty slow.

And no, no unlearning of sorceress spells.

Yeah, the ranger/cleric thing is pretty awesome but only because it's an exploit (imo).

You would have access to both druid spells and cleric spells (which is a pretty great combination), and your spell slots would be (mostly) from the cleric. Imo, it should limit you to using druid spells in the ranger slots and cleric spells in the cleric slots. But since it doesnt, it's a powerful class with heavy armor, stoneskin, heal, great buffs, great summonings, decent attack bonus, decent health, dual wielding, and lots of high-level abilities.

I've found a pretty funny exploit, make a wild mage and use the spell sequencer (or whatever it's called) you know, the spell with combines two spells, anyway, combine atleast two Nahal's Reckless Dweomer and cast it, you know how you get a list of spell to cast? well, usually it disappears after one spell has been cast, since it's two i figured that i should be able to cast two spells, but after spending the second one the list didn't disappear.. you have unlimited spells of all levels! Mohawhawhaw..

The downside is that since you're a wildmage you'll always live with the possibility of getting a cow in your head every time you cast a spell ... and as the enemy has no chance of winning (unless your wild magic goes wild) the game becomes pretty boring.

have anyone else found this exploit?
btw, i don't know if this has been fixed in the latest patches.

Hmm, i seem to recall that it was impossible to put that spell in a sequencer. But using exploits (and there are many in BG2) is a very good way to ruin the game, so i wouldn't recommend it

Consider there is an XP cap, and that each class has different xp requirements you should calculate what level in kensai will leave you enough exp to be a +1 (or more) level mage.

It is true that many classes get good traits on higher levels, but the 3rd edition allows you to multiclass in unrealistic and extremely unbalanced way, IF a DM doesn't prevent it. Check this
Another common example is the 1paladin\sorcerer so abused in NWN, you basically get huge saving throws bonuses from your paladin level and all the destructive power of the sorcerer, all of this playing a character that has to reason to exist!

Yes, if you fall in love with your character
Seriously if i where you i'd just start by playing BG2 (which is what i did, since at the time i wasn't able to get a copy of BG1), which is far more balanced and entertaining than BG1

True, I've totally ruined my BG2 experience with stuff like that.

Which is a good reason why you should go for TUTU, or where you referring to the actually content(npc, quests, nstuff) of the game? There are a lot of enchantments to TUTU you could check out, there may be a balancing addon.

BG1 is defiantly a good game to play. And as i understand it, it's a bit more in "the spirit of AD&D" (low level cap etc, no uber-characters). There is also a bit more exploration in BG1. I still prefer BG2 though.

Hehehe, I did that. However, when I played the HotU campaign with this combination, Meph. had major resistances to magic and I couldn't win without knowing his true name... Now my favourite class combination is cleric/fighter.

Here's another issue that I've had with D&D: many spells are kind of pointless or are shadowed by clearly superior spells.

I was speaking of actual content (and that's why i like the Icewind Dales series less, due to it's lack of story)

I think that Icewind Dale is also in a pack at EBGames. Should I still consider getting it?

Icewind dale is inferior to BG1/2 in almost every way (imo), but it's still pretty fun. It's pretty much just a dungeon slasher/burner/maimer. Get it, play it after you are done with BG1/2

Has anyone played Neverwinter Nights 2? I probably would have it by now if it hadn't been DirectX 9 (and used SDL like NWN1).
Instead, I'll wait for it to drop in price.

Also, it requires a much faster video card -- so that's another reason why I don't have it.

My friend is a hardcore NWN player, and he didn't really like NWN2. Too much changed, apparently.

yeah, it works without problems on my computer (mostly). The standard campaign was so-so imo, but the expansion is quite nice so far.

I friggin loved Baldur's Gate! I mean, how can you not!:P I would like to have seen a remade version of Baldur's Gate using the Aurora engine from NWN. Now, that would be cool! We could also play on Linux!::) (Well without Wine and such)

When it came out NWN2 was a friggin bugfest
Now it's much more stable and optimized, and while IMO inferior to BG2, it's still very entertaining. Plus at a point in the game you get to manage and then defend a keep, which by itself is cool!
Actually it even has the npc-influence system from KOTOR which is a good addition to any rpg (it's much better developed than in NWN)

[TIME PARADOX EDIT]

Archon, did you check for the .pdf versions inside the disk? The manuals really are VERY important.

Icewind Dale is a good game , and the storyline was good too , you should still get it.

What's with no manuals coming with the Baldur's Gate 4 pack? That sucks.

Actually, at least when it comes to BG2, the manual is horribly outdated and incorrect (to the point of being useless for anything but a laugh).

I think it's pretty standard to only get digital manuals with these "packs". To keep costs down... Besides, my manual fell apart - and i only browsed it once or twice. Digital manuals doesn't do that

You get to do that in BG2 as well, if you play as a fighter

I guess the italian version was corrected then, it was EXTREMELY useful to me.
Besides if you know nothing of d&d 2 the manual will give you all the info you need on the system (game related).

Beeing a huge fan of NWN, I wanted to give BGII a try after reading this thread.
I've installed the game, ToB and the FixPack linked earlier.

To my disapointment it feels like a really old game, not because of the graphics but the interface...

Anyway, the game just crash (plain exit, no error message) when I equip a sword on my shield slot... So much for a 2 handed character then... It's probably the "fix pack" which is messing the game, but there doesnt seem to be anyway to uninstall it.

There is an override (oslt) folder where all "patch-files" are put. you could try clearing that and then installing the regular patch again.

I had to re-install the game from scratch, now it works.

Should I install the expension while I do single player game from the beginning, or wait until the end of the first part ?

It depends. If you install the expansion, there will be a new class (wild mage) and a higher xp cap (a lot higher). There will also be a new dungeon you can do while in either part of the game (original or expansion). If you decide to play a smaller party (which i prefer), something like 3 members, the game might become a bit to easy pretty fast (since you will gain twice as much xp, and without a xp cap you will start getting high level abilities long before the last fight).

Blasphemy!
What i really liked in the BG series is the strategic part you play when you have to manage 6 character in a turn-based (sortof) battle!

Has anyone figured out how much alcohol it would take to get one of the other characters to have sex with the main character? On a slightly more serious note, I have played BGII to a point, but never finished. I played Icewind Dale with the Heart of Winter expansion and finished using cheats. I think BGII is by far superior, as for NWN, good game, try the Sex and the Single Adventuress mod. That is probably the best part of NWN, player created mods.