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My problems with Baldur's Gate...
Archon
Member #4,195
January 2004
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A few days ago, I decided to install Baldur's Gate (just the first one). I loved the game when I was young but I couldn't help but cheat in order to progress... Many people seem to like the game very much (and probably played it properly) but I have problems with it that makes me frustrated at it.

Last time, I made a Human Cleric with about 16~18 for STR, DEX, CON and WIS and about 10 INT and 3 CHA (in Neverwinter Nights (3rd Ed. rules), those would be very good starting stats); and I was grouped up with Imoen, Montarion and Xzar. From there, I went to the Friendly Arm Inn (as instructed) and that mage guy who attacks you from the steps wiped out everyone except my character-- and the reason I survived was because he ran out of spells... I had casted bless and protection from evil to help.

From memory (years ago)... I died a lot except when I cheated by making a fighter and used the export/import system to read a book of STR which can make your STR go up to 25.

The other problem I have is with the resting system... I much prefer Neverwinter Night's system because you can sleep almost anywhere which helps if you're a spell caster. Baldur's Gate requires you to sleep for 8 game hours which is annoying because of the experience point cap, you have to sleep often since you don't get many spells.

However, I'm thinking about buying the Baldur's Gate set (BG1, BG1x, BG2, BG2x) (and maybe Icewind Dale) and making a multiclass Fighter/Cleric.

Anyway. I'm hoping that I could get tips on having an enjoyable time.

blargmob
Member #8,356
February 2007
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Archon said:

Baldurs Gate sucks.

You said it. ;).

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SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
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Don't know about BG1, but in BG2, whenever I encountered a tough mage (say a Lich) I found it prudent to run instead of fighting. This forced the mage to either walk(slowly) towards me, or stand in one place doing nothing while his protections whithered out. After some time passed, I would run back and try to attack him, or retreat again if he has a second volley of protections. Sure it does not sound very exciting, but cowardice is the best strategy when you are weak.

Also, I found that especially when I had 6 member parties I did not use every single character to their maximum, since it involved too much micromanagement. Still, in some battles that sometimes would be the only way to go.

Otherwise, I personally found an Archer (a kit of the Ranger class, not sure if it exists in BG1) to be the easiest to play. Fighters are decent with bows too, so if you are bent on using a fighter that is also an option.

Also, stock up on high enchantment weapons, even if they are horrible. This will help you for fighting powerful magical creatures. Doing 1 point of damage per attack is infinitely better than not doing any damage at all.

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nonnus29
Member #2,606
August 2002
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Yeah, I don't think you are supposed to fight the mage there. If he wipes out your party I'd say that was a good hint you weren't supposed to take him on at that point. But its been years since I played that game and I certainly never finished it.

Archon
Member #4,195
January 2004
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Quote:

Yeah, I don't think you are supposed to fight the mage there. If he wipes out your party I'd say that was a good hint you weren't supposed to take him on at that point.

Isn't that bad game design if you find out that you weren't supposed to go there retrospectively?

Rodrigo Monteiro
Member #4,373
February 2004
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Dunno, Baldur's Gate II had some very difficult battles... The Dragons, in particular, always wiped me out very quickly, since I always relied heavily on magic, and their magic resistance kinda blew it.

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SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
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Rodrigo Monteiro said:

their magic resistance kinda blew it.

Lower magical resistance * 3 followed by a couple of spell triggers filled with magic missiles. Will bring down any dragon in the game (not in the expansion though).

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Archon
Member #4,195
January 2004
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What about the problem with the resting system. Didn't anyone have a problem with that? In Baldur's Gate, you would effectively be spending days to complete an area but in Neverwinter Nights, you could keep resting which would take less than half a game hour per rest.

Also, what are some good class combinations? Is multi-classing better than dual-classing?

SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
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I found the resting convention to be a little annoying. Unless there is some mod to fix it, I think you are stuck with resting a lot. For BG2 for example my in game time was around 92 days at its end, exactly because I had to in effect rest before every single party of enemies, in order to recharge my spells and heal my party. I think you just have to get used to it.

I personally always prefer the pure power of a single classed character. Multi-classing is only available to non-human characters, while dual-classing is only for humans (and half-elves, if they are in BG1). That will be the main factor in your choice. I think that multi-classing is inferior to dual-classing since it permanently leaves you with a weaker than average character, while dual-classing is a little more flexible in that regard.

I like Cleric/Wizard (lots and lots of spells!), Fighter/Wizard (for defensive and invisibility spells) and Fighter/Cleric (for some defensive and healing spells) for multi-classing. For dual-classing I like anything combined with a Thief class (hide in shadows and find traps are always useful to have)

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Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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Ahh, baldurs gate... I prefer BG2 myself, and I have probably spent more time playing that game than going to school :D

First of all, GB does not use 3rd ed rules. It used Ad&D. In short;
Str good for anyone. Dex good for anyone (AC bonus is not limited by armor). Con does not have any effect over 16 for a non-fighter. Wis should probably be at 18 for a cleric. Int and cha can be pretty low (unless you are a spell-caster, then int should be high).

A lot of people seemed to be having troubles with that particular mage, as did i the first few times. Try gaining a few levels so you at least can use some disabling spell on him (hold person, fear, charm or whatnot). Or summon a lot of skeletons and let him beat on those until he is out of spells :)

Multi-classing is pretty crappy, as you only get the bonuses from the best class (not the two added together), or the average bonus. For example; you will only get half hp for from each level-up, and only the best class base attack bonus (if you have a level 6/6 fighter/cleric, you will have the base attack of a level 6 fighter, not a level 6 fighter + a level 6 cleric).

Dual-classing however can be very powerful, as the xp required to gain higher levels is much greater than the xp required for lower levels. So you could (in BG2, as i cant remember the xp cap on BG1), start out a fighter and level that until level 9 and still reach the maximum level of whatever class you want him to be. That way you could get a lot more HP (and better weapon skills) than you would otherwise.

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Bob Keane
Member #7,342
June 2006

You should be able to kill the wizard before entering the inn. Otherwise you would not meet up with Jaheira and what's his name. Try fighting creatures before you go there to level up. Another trick would be to get a hold of a silence (or confusion, or something similar) spell, save the game before you encounter the mage and hit him with the spell before he does anything. If it does not work the first time, quit the game without saving and try again. an amusing note, the AI is not very I. I was trying to surround a bunch of goblins to surprise them, clicked where I wanted to move my main character, I hoped he would take a long route around but he walked through the goblins who did nothing but watch. I don't think they were surprised when I attacked. As for resting, check under options I think. It may have something about resting for full recovery. I know BG II does.

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Hi Randall Monroe.

Archon
Member #4,195
January 2004
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Quote:

Dual-classing however can be very powerful, as the xp required to gain higher levels is much greater than the xp required for lower levels. So you could (in BG2, as i cant remember the xp cap on BG1), start out a fighter and level that until level 9 and still reach the maximum level of whatever class you want him to be. That way you could get a lot more HP (and better weapon skills) than you would otherwise.

Isn't there an issue with dual-classing, that if I were to level to x with Cleric, then dual-class with a fighter, then I would need to level to x+x+1 before I can cast even level 1 cleric spells? :-X

Is there much of a bonus for levels of a single class above 20 (for BG2x)?

Quote:

Multi-classing is pretty crappy, as you only get the bonuses from the best class (not the two added together), or the average bonus. For example; you will only get half hp for from each level-up, and only the best class base attack bonus (if you have a level 6/6 fighter/cleric, you will have the base attack of a level 6 fighter, not a level 6 fighter + a level 6 cleric).

So a level 24/20 cleric/fighter (or other way around) would be no where near as good as a level 40 fighter?

Bob Keane
Member #7,342
June 2006

Sorry, forgot to mention. If you try to hit him with silence or similar, cast the spell when you first see him, that is before he starts speaking.

[edit]

As I recall, the cheats say there is a magic ring at the base of a tree outside Baldur's Gate (map coordinates 0,0). Has anyone found it?

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If we get apple juice from squeezing apples, and we get prunes from drying out plums, where does prune juice come from?
Hi Randall Monroe.

Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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Quote:

Isn't there an issue with dual-classing, that if I were to level to x with Cleric, then dual-class with a fighter, then I would need to level to x+x+1 before I can cast even level 1 cleric spells? :-X

Not really an "issue", but yes. But because the XP needed for the lower levels (1-9) is pretty low, it doesn't take much time (the last level might be a bit annoying though). It's usually best to start with a class that doesn't need levels as much, for example a fighter or a thief. Casters are better to use as the "second class", as they will benefit more from higher levels. Though in BG1 i would probably play as a pure class.

Quote:

Is there much of a bonus for levels of a single class above 20 (for BG2x)?

In the BG2 expansion, you will gain high-level abilities after a certain amount of xp (usually around level 19 or 22, depending on class). Most of these are very good. But you can still get a large amount of these if you multi-class (one of the only benefits of multi-classing), as you get abilities based of your total xp and not the level (iirc).

Quote:

So a level 24/20 cleric/fighter (or other way around) would be no where near as good as a level 40 fighter?

Well, the base attack bonus and health gain slows down (iirc) after level 20, and a 24 cleric/20 fighter will have plenty of high-level abilities. The biggest problem might be that you won't get that many spell slots for the cleric abilities until quite late in the game :)

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Albin Engström
Member #8,110
December 2006
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I usually run when the mage tries to talk to me, and position myself nearby as many guards as possible, during the fight they will hit him so much he wont have time too cast spells :). dosen't work every time but it a big help.

Neverwinter night is for pussies, to be able to just "rest" for a few seconds and then get all your spells back sucks.

You should definitely but all the baldurs gate + icewind dale games! i personally have them all 8-). and don't forget to patch..

Also, the record on baldurs gate 1 is 15 min ;). using exploits of course.. totally sick.

Baldurs gate is for real gamers!!

FMC
Member #4,431
March 2004
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I REALLY like BG2, wonderfull game, BG1 on the contrary was a bit too hard at the beginning (but this is because you have so few hp that even a house mouse can kill you :P) , but still very entertaining. My "strategy" for BG was to save often, load often, and generally try to power play. :)

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Myrdos
Member #1,772
December 2001

If you play Baldur's Gate II, there's some unofficial patch that fixes roughly 500 bugs with it. (no exaggeration)

I played through most of Baldur's Gate I and II on Hard mode using a plain mage as my main character. I didn't die that often, though archers become deadly on Hard.

I'd have Montaron or some other thief scout out ahead with stealth, while my main party held back. If I found a group of baddies I'd soften them up with some destructive magic, and then they'd charge my party. A good idea to have them run into a bunch of summoned creatures if they're particularly dangerous. Try to make every battle into an ambush if you can.

One thing I found: before leveling up, drink a potion of endurance. You get more HP that way.

[EDIT] Unofficial BGII TOB patch here. Look at all those fixes!

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Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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Most of those fixes arent actually bug-fixes, but rather gameplay tweaks. I do play with some of them.

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Myrdos
Member #1,772
December 2001

They all look like fixes to me. Abilities that don't work correctly, bugs that don't let you finish either quests or the game, items/spells that don't work the way they're supposed to, or don't match their descriptions, etc.

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Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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Ah, maybe those are primarily fixes (though there are some border-line cases). There is another patch for gameplay tweaks (some of which are nice and boredom-reducing).

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nonnus29
Member #2,606
August 2002
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I really liked the BG game engine, when I got into game programming I wanted to make a BG style engine but instead of D+D create a setting for my favorite gaming system:

Space: 1889 Roleplaying in a more civilized era

But BG games nothing if not art intensive so that put an end to that dream....

:-/

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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Archon's OP said:

However, I'm thinking about buying the Baldur's Gate set (BG1, BG1x, BG2, BG2x) (and maybe Icewind Dale) and making a multiclass Fighter/Cleric.

I played through all of Baldur's Gate , but it's been a long time since then and I don't remember much. I remember enjoying it mostly.

I do however strongly recommend IceWind Dale I , II , and the expansion pack Heart Of Winter , they were really fun and I've played through them all at least twice.

For Baldur's Gate , if you use a dwarven character with high Constitution you get a better chance of making your saving throws against spells and magical effects. Rangers with high Dexterity make good archers that can also fight well and have some stealth ability when wearing light armor. I always make sure that everyone in the party has a ranged weapon in the quick slot so that way if you pause it quick you can damage at least one enemy decently before they get to you. Don't forget to scout with a thief character first though.

Archon
Member #4,195
January 2004
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I got the Baldur's Gate 4-pack today. It's a pity with these packs because I already have BG1 (but not the expansion).

However, I've got assessment closing in so I can't play it for a while.

Suffice to say, you probably wont see me online for a week or so after November 15.

[edit]
What can fighters gain except for level 4 weapon proficiency (and high HP)?

SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
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I think they have one of the highest hit dice (number of hitpoints added per level) of the usual characters - d10 iirc.

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Archon
Member #4,195
January 2004
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I was thinking about dual-classing, but starting with a fighter and maximising my long blade proficiency, then going to cleric immediately after.

Firstly: Is there something I might be overlooking?
Secondly: Could one of those things be that I wouldn't be able to use long blade weapons if I become partly cleric?

Also, can dual classed characters put additional levels into their first class?

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