Allegro.cc - Online Community

Allegro.cc Forums » Game Design & Concepts » If you made an RTS...

Credits go to Jakub Wasilewski for helping out!
This thread is locked; no one can reply to it. rss feed Print
 1   2   3 
If you made an RTS...
OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
avatar

Michael: yeah I'd like that too. I'm not afraid too much about micromanagement, because you can simly go with the way Homeworld went. What I'm afraid of is that it would be really complicated to combine space and ground combat phases. I mean that you'd simply go mad when orchestrating battle on the surface and managing the fleet on the orbit to unleash surface bombardment.

Mmmh maybe I should think about that more...

[My website][CppReference][Pixelate][Allegators worldwide][Who's online]
"Final Fantasy XIV, I feel that anything I could say will be repeating myself, so I'm just gonna express my feelings with a strangled noise from the back of my throat. Graaarghhhh..." - Yahtzee
"Uhm... this is a.cc. Did you honestly think this thread WOULDN'T be derailed and ruined?" - BAF
"You can discuss it, you can dislike it, you can disagree with it, but that's all what you can do with it"

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
avatar

I had this idea once to make a networked RTS where you could play either as a commander, or as a unit. If playing as commander, the game would look just like your average RTS, but you could put up "job ads" in the lobby from in-game. To play as unit, you'd have to reply to a job ad, and be accepted by the commander; you would then populate one of the commander's units, and you'd play the game in a 3d view. The commander might also give you soldiers you can command yourself.

With this, though, I see a few problems:
1) The programming involved would be extremely tricky, since so many players would have to be synced in a realtime action game;
2) There would have to be a well-designed mechanism to maintain a reasonable balance between commanders and players (say, 1:10 to 1:20). A reward system would be necessary, which is hard to get secure in such a networked thing, and it must be attractive enough to be a unit (to avoid everybody to play as commander), but not too much so (otherwise there'd be no commanders at all).
3) If a unit player leaves the game, his unit must somehow be secured so that the commander doesn't lose it; just removing it would be unfair for the commander, moving it back to the base would open an easy door for cheating. The best solution would probably be to instantly turn it into a robot unit and warn the commander.

Another option might be to have only unit players, but the one with the most "experience" (most kills, highest score, ...) would not only control his own unit (3D screen), but could also go into commander mode (RTS screen), enabling an autopilot for his unit. This would still leave number 1 on the list as a problem.

---
Me make music: Triofobie
---
"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
avatar

Tobias: that's what Battlefield does, though I haven't played that. Which reminds me I'd want sometime play Operation Flashpoint over network - the more players the better.

Edit: the reward system shoul work in the way, that the "unit" players would get rank and depending on their rank they'd be able to command other units, then become a commander of platoon and somehow supreme commander.

[My website][CppReference][Pixelate][Allegators worldwide][Who's online]
"Final Fantasy XIV, I feel that anything I could say will be repeating myself, so I'm just gonna express my feelings with a strangled noise from the back of my throat. Graaarghhhh..." - Yahtzee
"Uhm... this is a.cc. Did you honestly think this thread WOULDN'T be derailed and ruined?" - BAF
"You can discuss it, you can dislike it, you can disagree with it, but that's all what you can do with it"

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
avatar

I'm game for it. :)

(Oh, and on that off-topic topic: Project Reality for BF2 rocks)

--
Move to the Democratic People's Republic of Vivendi Universal (formerly known as Sweden) - officially democracy- and privacy-free since 2008-06-18!

Onewing
Member #6,152
August 2005
avatar

Quote:

They beat you to it [brikwars.com] .

Seems like an excellent design document (going through the "Core Rules"). Now I want to make it more than ever! Umm, I mean "evar!!!1"

Credz to Jakub because I sayz so.

------------
Solo-Games.org | My Tech Blog: The Digital Helm

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
avatar

FrankyR said:

If I made an RTS right now, each map would have both an on-ground and an in-space portion so that players could command units and build structures both on the surface and in orbit. Players would need to build spaceports to transfer resources from the planet to space, and units would have abilities like orbital bombardment, ground-to-space cannons, etc.

Got a question - how would you solve the transistion between space and ground battlefield?

[My website][CppReference][Pixelate][Allegators worldwide][Who's online]
"Final Fantasy XIV, I feel that anything I could say will be repeating myself, so I'm just gonna express my feelings with a strangled noise from the back of my throat. Graaarghhhh..." - Yahtzee
"Uhm... this is a.cc. Did you honestly think this thread WOULDN'T be derailed and ruined?" - BAF
"You can discuss it, you can dislike it, you can disagree with it, but that's all what you can do with it"

Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
avatar

Johan: There was an old game for the PC / Amiga like that.. Tiny Troops or something similar.

I'm not really into RTS games for some reason. :(

FrankyR
Member #243
April 2000
avatar

Quote:

Got a question - how would you solve the transistion between space and ground battlefield?

I haven't thought about it that much, but one idea is to use special spaceport/space elevator structures built on the ground to transfer units. They would act something like a teleporter in Warcraft3: you'd walk units into one side and then they'd appear on the other. Of course some vehicles could travel between the two on their own (they could have a enter/leave atmosphere action or something).

The more I think about this game idea though, the more it seems like it could easily get bogged down in micromanagement. The real trick would be getting the feeling of controlling two different fronts of the battlefield without making it unplayable in the process.

Wilson Saunders
Member #5,872
May 2005
avatar

FrankyR: said:

The real trick would be getting the feeling of controlling two different fronts of the battlefield without making it unplayable in the process.

Have you given any thought to split screen? Have 1/2 the screen dedicated to space the other 1/2 dedicated to the ground. Perhaps link the two in scrolling so the player does not get confused as to what part of the ground links up to what part of space. I know the scale would be way off. Perhaps you could explain it away with degrees of orbit. That is since ground units are closer to the center of the planet they take up more of an angle relative to the center of the planet than the space ships in high orbit. Heck you could even go for a "round" map where going too far in one direction gets you to pop up on the other side of the world. "Populous In the Beginning" did a very good job with this.

________________________________________________
Play my games at http://monkeydev.com

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
avatar

Quote:

Have you given any thought to split screen?

What about tabbed inteface?
Perhaps it might actually work if the tab would show at least minimap for the thing that isn't currently visible.

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Michael Jensen
Member #2,870
October 2002
avatar

tabbed views would work best.

There should be a way to zoom out from a planet you're viewing to the "space-map" which shows all planets/sectors/ships(that are in space) etc (very very zoomed out)

When you click on a planet you should be able to zoom down, and there should also be some stats as to the prescences on that planet (if you have units in sensor range) wether it's 100% you, or: %38 you/%40 neutral/%22 evil empire ... etc

But again, this gets into epic proportions and almost deserves to be labeled as micromanagement already, IMHO.

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
avatar

Quote:

tabbed views would work best.

Agreed. The more of the area around you that you can see in an RTS, the better. Splitting the screen would cut down on the visible range far too much.

Archon
Member #4,195
January 2004
avatar

Quote:

The real trick would be getting the feeling of controlling two different fronts of the battlefield without making it unplayable in the process.

What you should do is render both scenes, but you zoom in for the ground, and zoom out for space. For the alternate view, you should see what objects and landscape are there, but it should be semi-opaque and slightly white so you know that it's there but you don't get obstructed by it.

When you are zoomed into the ground's battlefield, you should see what is in the sky/orbit above the area, but you should be able to easily see past it.

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
avatar

Well the question was more like the transistion of camera between two battlefields. In space I'd definately go the Homeworld way - absolute freedom of movement of units and camera (you focused it on some object and it kept following it, until you changed the focus).

I thought that from orbit you would be able to focus the planet and then zoom with the scroller to the surface - the question is how to make this possible with keeping some proportions of game objects and keeping planets reasonably small when rendering from space.

Hey and the micromanagement could be easily cutted down. You'll have to just send units where you want, have one key for some special action, and few others like docking key for fighters.

Also the macromanagemnet could be easily stripped - you just ask your fleet command to send you more units and in some time reinforcements will jump in (well for some reasonable fee).

[My website][CppReference][Pixelate][Allegators worldwide][Who's online]
"Final Fantasy XIV, I feel that anything I could say will be repeating myself, so I'm just gonna express my feelings with a strangled noise from the back of my throat. Graaarghhhh..." - Yahtzee
"Uhm... this is a.cc. Did you honestly think this thread WOULDN'T be derailed and ruined?" - BAF
"You can discuss it, you can dislike it, you can disagree with it, but that's all what you can do with it"

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
avatar

Quote:

Also the macromanagemnet could be easily stripped - you just ask your fleet command to send you more units and in some time reinforcements will jump in (well for some reasonable fee).

What I'd like is a customisable AI that could be set to run your macromanagement for you. There could be an inteface built into the game that allows you to give it simple strategies. And for people who want to give more specific control, you could create script files for the AI that can overwrite every part of its behaviour. Something similar to this which is one of the AI configuration files that can be used to control allied and enemy AI players in Kohan.

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
avatar

Well I was thinking about something like universe which would live and where the player would be a commander of a space fleet. The universe would be AI controlled and the player would be able to change it in some way by his deeds. He'll be also able to ask for reinforcements as I mentioned. The idea was to focus only on tactical combat and simplify the the management as possible.

I also thought about the ground battlefield and I came up with the spherical battlefield concept: you'd be able to focus on the planet, rotate the camera as you wish and zoom in/out which would allow you to see units currently on the surface. From orbit you'd see only large structures and be able to attack them with your vessels (orbital bombardment) with greater zoom the unit icons would pop up and further maybe even the actual units.

The only thing is how to make it really simple and easy to program, plus optimized - that from orbit you'll see only sphere composed of 1000 polys and as you zoom the surface and terrain will appear.

[My website][CppReference][Pixelate][Allegators worldwide][Who's online]
"Final Fantasy XIV, I feel that anything I could say will be repeating myself, so I'm just gonna express my feelings with a strangled noise from the back of my throat. Graaarghhhh..." - Yahtzee
"Uhm... this is a.cc. Did you honestly think this thread WOULDN'T be derailed and ruined?" - BAF
"You can discuss it, you can dislike it, you can disagree with it, but that's all what you can do with it"

Matt Smith
Member #783
November 2000

I always prefer the building part of RTS than the blowing things up. War isn't very constructive.

ImLeftFooted
Member #3,935
October 2003
avatar

I'd prefer a FPS style thing where I can command troops to help me out with my voice. Thats the ultimate invisible UI.

Matt Smith
Member #783
November 2000

You'd have to develop the VOICE OF COMMAND or your troops will think you're a wuss. The neighbours will think you are mad.

You could play a rich man in a wheelchair and you have to order everyone around you. That would be just as much fun.

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
avatar

Matt: in that case you should play RTS's like Sim City not the war ones.

[My website][CppReference][Pixelate][Allegators worldwide][Who's online]
"Final Fantasy XIV, I feel that anything I could say will be repeating myself, so I'm just gonna express my feelings with a strangled noise from the back of my throat. Graaarghhhh..." - Yahtzee
"Uhm... this is a.cc. Did you honestly think this thread WOULDN'T be derailed and ruined?" - BAF
"You can discuss it, you can dislike it, you can disagree with it, but that's all what you can do with it"

Archon
Member #4,195
January 2004
avatar

Quote:

Matt: in that case you should play RTS's like Sim City not the war ones.

Real-Time Simulations. ;D

Matt Smith
Member #783
November 2000

Even if it's Real Time STRATEGY that still doesn't necessarily mean warfare.

tobing
Member #5,213
November 2004
avatar

You might like the City uilding series then, you know: Caesar III, Pharaoh, Zeus and Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom. Or Children of the Nile or Caesar IV, if you like 3D stuff. Mostly building, but not entirely without warfare.

Btw, let me say thanks for the link to brikwars.com which was posted a few days ago. We got somewhat into it, and the kids certainly do have a lot of fun with that type of gameplay!

Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
avatar

Bun Bun and his army of Black Ops Elves vs The Satanic Kittens!
Although the Kittens are indesructible, the Elves can throw milk and neutralize them. Their goal is to neutralize all the kittens and transport them back to the cabin.

The Satanic Kittens' goal is to escape the cabin and kill all the Elves. Bun Bun can survive, but none of his elves!

Of course, Pete Abrams would have to approve, since all the characters were created by him in his online comic, Sluggy Freelance, which I recommend to everyone. Check it out at www.sluggy.com

Wilson Saunders
Member #5,872
May 2005
avatar

Possumdude0 I am also a big fan of sluggy and your post brought a mental image of a battle fields strewn with disemboweled elves and kittens quietly lapping up milk.

________________________________________________
Play my games at http://monkeydev.com

 1   2   3 


Go to: