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ncurses apps cans be so much better than...
Rick
Member #3,572
June 2003
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Quote:

So you can see how, after knowing just a little about using the console, your knowledge can grow easily.

What you just typed there is something no one with no computer skills would ever figure out without reading documentation. A GUI is a sort of self documentation. I hit start menu and see something called Control Panel. Hey, that must control a bunch of stuff. From there everything is easy. I don't think it's a question that humans learn better visually, and that is why the GUI is the best way to learn. Then once you learn how things work you can progress to the console to speed your tasks up.

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Actually I think I'm a tad ugly, but some women disagree, mostly Asians for some reason.

CGamesPlay
Member #2,559
July 2002
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Right that is not known to every newbie. That's why I said "after having just a little knowledge about the console". (I assumed the user had knowledge of how to edit text files, where most configuration files go, and bash completion.) Some knowledge is needed to work in the GUI, also. Specifically, where to go to get to the GUI settings for the setting he wants. My point is that the same trial-and-error proces exists in both places.

--
Tomasu: Every time you read this: hugging!

Ryan Patterson - <http://cgamesplay.com/>

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

From there everything is easy.

You're joking. The option I want is usually behind a button on a tab in a dialog hiding behind a button in a tab marked "Advanced - don't touch" in another dialog. And that's assuming I can find it.
Ok, that may be a little exagerated, but I really do have a hard time finding some settings in Windows. It's not straightforward.

Rick
Member #3,572
June 2003
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I'm not saying it's straightforward, I'm saying without documentation you have a fighting chance of exploring around and finding what you need. With a console you don't have that option. Without docs or prior knowledge of commands your odds of figuring out a command and how to use it is slim. I like the fact that I can explore and find things out in Windows. I don't enjoy weeding through docs. That and not having to go into a text file and edit some properties where one typo or other mistake makes it not work. That's all I'm saying.

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Actually I think I'm a tad ugly, but some women disagree, mostly Asians for some reason.

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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When using console you need to know two basic things:

  • tab completion

</li>
I think it is about as basic knowledge as right clicking in GUI :)

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CGamesPlay
Member #2,559
July 2002
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Honestly, the same thing is in a console. Looking for a utility to apply xslt, for instance: "xslt", tab, tab. If you have multiple ones, run each one with "--help". It works wonders.

Standard operating procedure for finding a program: type it in and see if it's installed. Try man "thingie" to see if the See Alsos have anything. emerge -s "topic" to see if there are any packages are there. Google for it. Typically a package will be listed in the summary on the first page, so try to emerge that. That done, look at what it installed in /usr/bin, and run it with --help. Maybe check a man page.

I mean, even without the man pages, --help (or the program with no args) is very handy.

--
Tomasu: Every time you read this: hugging!

Ryan Patterson - <http://cgamesplay.com/>

Rick
Member #3,572
June 2003
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Quote:

Standard operating procedure for finding a program: type it in and see if it's installed. Try man "thingie" to see if the See Alsos have anything. emerge -s "topic" to see if there are any packages are there. Google for it. Typically a package will be listed in the summary on the first page, so try to emerge that. That done, look at what it installed in /usr/bin, and run it with --help. Maybe check a man page.

I don't even know what you are talking about here. :)

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Actually I think I'm a tad ugly, but some women disagree, mostly Asians for some reason.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Thats because you're not trying :P

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Goalie Ca
Member #2,579
July 2002
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Quote:

I'm saying without documentation you have a fighting chance of exploring around and finding what you need.

Wow. Lets all ship our computers without documentation!!! Sometimes a 2 second google or a 5 second app --help or man app will cover everything you need. Honestly though... i tried using word today for the first time in quite a while. I'm used to using latex... and i stuck in a text box but it stuck that inside a picture frame.. There were hidden menus and a million buttons and dialogs and everything. I had no idea what i was looking for so i got confused and gave up.

I guess the point is that no matter which software you use you need a 'search image'.. meaning you have to know what you're looking for to find it.

Unless software is inherently intuitive or comes with some documentation or good "google support" i will use something else regardless.

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Bah weep granah weep nini bong!

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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Quote:

--help/-h

Or /? if it's a DOS console. ;D

kentl
Member #2,905
November 2002

Quote:

I'm used to using latex...

It's spelled LaTeX! nitpick smash!

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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If we're being nitpicky... it IS spelled latex, it's just usually formatted as LaTeX. :P

kentl
Member #2,905
November 2002

No it's case sensitive. You should always spell it LaTeX.

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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Quote:

No it's case sensitive. You should always spell it LaTeX.

We were being nitpicky, remember? Capitalization does not effect spelling.

kentl
Member #2,905
November 2002

Yeah I'm trying to go winning out of the argument anyway. ;) Still, it should always be formatted LaTeX, not just usually. ;D

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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Quote:

Yeah I'm trying to go winning out of the argument anyway

Not that easily. :P

Quote:

Still, it should always be formatted LaTeX, not just usually.

But I didn't say it should usually be formatted that way, I said it is usually formatted that way. Though, knowing the inherent laziness of most people, it probably isn't. ;)

kentl
Member #2,905
November 2002

Well. The discussion wasn't really very interesting. :) Let's get back to the other off-topic discussion. ;)

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

Capitalization does not effect spelling.

That's right. It's stell LaTeX though, for the following reasons:
The L is a capital for Lamport, the guy who wrote the package. You don't spell his name lamport, now do you?
The T is not actually a "t", it's a "tau", and therefore should not be written "t".
Likewise, the X is not an "x", it's a "chi". For that reason, it's typeset "X".
So the proper spelling is indeed LaTeX, the pronunciation is la-tech, not to be confused with latex (as in rubber).

Sorry for the diversion, carry on.

Goalie Ca
Member #2,579
July 2002
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TO be a real asshole its spelt: http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/images/tex.png

Ya see you didn't make the numbers float up and down....

ps: /usr/bin/latex :D

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Bah weep granah weep nini bong!

Simon Parzer
Member #3,330
March 2003
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Quote:

Ya see you didn't make the numbers float up and down....

It's not numbers, it's letters.

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

TO be a real asshole its spelt: http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/images/tex.png

Not when you're using plain text it's not. I'm not sure if I got that from Lamport's book or the Not So Short Introduction, but when using plain text, the spelling is LaTeX.

Anyway, did we have enough fun debating this?

kentl
Member #2,905
November 2002

It says so in "Not So short.." anyway.

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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Quote:

Not when you're using plain text it's not

If we're going to make distinctions, then in English (or any language using the Roman alphabet), LaTeX and latex (and LATEX, laTEX, LAtEX, etc.) are all spelt the same.

Goalie Ca
Member #2,579
July 2002
avatar

WTf... leave it to computer scientists to get anal and start a debate over piddly details.

snorts actually in epidoe #s03.15 you can clearly see the shadow from the microphone boom.

I think its time to close this thread.. it changed direction 5 times or so.

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Bah weep granah weep nini bong!

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

are all spelt the same

Not at all. Capitalisation is a part of spelling. My name is spelled Evert, not evert.

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