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ncurses apps cans be so much better than...
Goalie Ca
Member #2,579
July 2002
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This is not a new idea of mine, nor anyone else but I thought I might as well post it anyways. Any *nix user has probably grown to love the console. While bash and vim are quite nice apps like htop and mutt deserve equal praise. I love the fact that these apps can be easily run remotely in a screen session and that i never have to touch a mouse to do work. So much thought has been put into ease of use because hiding in a menu or dialog box somewhere is not possible. Key bindings are really nice. There are still many important apps that i think are best done in console.

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Bah weep granah weep nini bong!

MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
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Ah yes, console apps can be much fun.

Considering I'm installing LFS on a VM, I have to deal with the console. :P

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CGamesPlay
Member #2,559
July 2002
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I think my main reason for disliking Windows is the lack of a decent shell, and command-line tools.

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Tomasu: Every time you read this: hugging!

Ryan Patterson - <http://cgamesplay.com/>

Jakub Wasilewski
Member #3,653
June 2003
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Quote:

I think my main reason for disliking Windows is the lack of a decent shell, and command-line tools.

I hated that too. At least before I got the decent shell and command-line tools from MSYS :).

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piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
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my spelling:P sucks so i hate command-line tools.

wow
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CGamesPlay
Member #2,559
July 2002
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Quote:

At least before I got the decent shell and command-line tools from MSYS

But they aren't decent! The terminal emulator for MSYS sucks ;) (So does cmd.exe)

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Tomasu: Every time you read this: hugging!

Ryan Patterson - <http://cgamesplay.com/>

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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I wanted a simple gotoxy() facility without all the WriteConsole() nonsense, so I looked in winduhs help for how to install ansi.sys on XP. After following the instructions to the letter (and a reboot), ansi.sys was still not running. WinBug #205345690

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Michael Faerber
Member #4,800
July 2004
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On Windows, you could use the new PowerShell.

Linux made me love the console too, but I could never get used to stuff like mutt or console-vim; I like Sylpheed and gvim better.

--
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Goalie Ca
Member #2,579
July 2002
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I few weeks ago i found a really nice process manager called htop. Its basically top on steroids. For example you can scroll down to your process and send it any signal you want in a keystroke or two. Its very straight forward to use.

http://htop.sourceforge.net/index.php?page=screenshots

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Bah weep granah weep nini bong!

Jakub Wasilewski
Member #3,653
June 2003
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Quote:

The terminal emulator for MSYS sucks

Sucks how? Haven't had any problems with it myself.

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[ ChristmasHack! | My games ] :::: One CSS to style them all, One Javascript to script them, / One HTML to bring them all and in the browser bind them / In the Land of Fantasy where Standards mean something.

Goalie Ca
Member #2,579
July 2002
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i think cygwin is invaluable but fails to bring the whole experience. Cut and paste is lacking for instance (it uses a standard windows console! yuk!). Not everything is in the right place.

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Bah weep granah weep nini bong!

Steve++
Member #1,816
January 2002

Quote:

it uses a standard windows console! yuk!

Did you try startx?

CGamesPlay
Member #2,559
July 2002
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Quote:

Sucks how? Haven't had any problems with it myself.

Well, it's ugly ;) Does it have both intelligent copy & paste, as well as scrollback?

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Tomasu: Every time you read this: hugging!

Ryan Patterson - <http://cgamesplay.com/>

Jakub Wasilewski
Member #3,653
June 2003
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Quote:

Does it have both intelligent copy & paste, as well as scrollback?

I don't know what you mean by intelligent C&P, but if you mean middle-click copying, then yes. It's configurable.

And how is it ugly. Well, OK, the default colors are crap, but what's the reason to keep them? :)

I'm not trying to convert you or anything, I'm not a MSYS zealot - I'm just curious because it has always worked for me whenever I needed an able console.

EDIT: Ok, it seems it's not as configurable as I had previously thought. Sorry. It appears you can't change the default colors :'(.

EDIT2: Though if you change the original prompt to something non-retarded, you can set your own colours with ease... e.g. `printf "\03340;37m"`.

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[ ChristmasHack! | My games ] :::: One CSS to style them all, One Javascript to script them, / One HTML to bring them all and in the browser bind them / In the Land of Fantasy where Standards mean something.

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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Quote:

EDIT: Ok, it seems it's not as configurable as I had previously thought. Sorry. It appears you can't change the default colors :'(.

Yes you can.

{"name":"590441","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/0\/1\/012ca4010493b1111f31d28aada2ec9d.png","w":667,"h":375,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/0\/1\/012ca4010493b1111f31d28aada2ec9d"}590441

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Simon Parzer
Member #3,330
March 2003
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Console apps, yeah, but not for everything. Just try to use links instead of Firefox... or tin, mutt, sendmail, fetchmail instead of Evolution.

The GUI version of VIM is still better than the console edition, and for an application I don't use every day a simple GUI interface is better than any of these overcomplicated short-cut-only systems.

CGamesPlay
Member #2,559
July 2002
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Another problem I had with MSYS was that it emulates a UNIX environment. I really want a version of bash that support DOS drive letters and things. I mean, I can even handle /d:/path, with / being a pseudo-directory containing only drive letters.

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Tomasu: Every time you read this: hugging!

Ryan Patterson - <http://cgamesplay.com/>

Corelian
Member #3,376
March 2003
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Quote:

I really want a version of bash that support DOS drive letters and things. I mean, I can even handle /d:/path, with / being a pseudo-directory containing only drive letters.

I don't really understand what you meant with all that, but I find the drive letter implementation quite comfortable and fast to use, actually it's much faster than the Windows command line equivalent (e.g. /c vs. <tt>C:</tt>).

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

Just try to use links instead of Firefox...

Do that regularly. Actually, links is very easy to use. Try clicking in the top of the console window, and you'll get a flashy menubar with pulldown menus.

Quote:

or tin, mutt, sendmail, fetchmail instead of Evolution.

I don't know tin, but sendmail and fetchmail are not e-mail clients. As for mutt against Evolution... I use mutt almost daily and looked at Evolution once a while ago (years, possibly, can't remember), found it too confusing at first glance and never looked at it again.
That said, I do use KMail to handle multiple mail accounts.

Fun isn't it, how people value different things. :)

Quote:

for an application I don't use every day a simple GUI interface is better

Oh, definately.

CGamesPlay
Member #2,559
July 2002
avatar

Quote:

I don't really understand what you meant with all that, but I find the drive letter implementation quite comfortable and fast to use, actually it's much faster than the Windows command line equivalent (e.g. /c vs. C:\).

Heh, it's my turn not to understand :) In MSYS, can I touch /arbitrary_file? And is C actually mounted at /c?

--
Tomasu: Every time you read this: hugging!

Ryan Patterson - <http://cgamesplay.com/>

Corelian
Member #3,376
March 2003
avatar

/ is the MSYS root directory (e.g. C:\MSYS), but the Windows drives are accessed in the following way:
/c for <tt>C:</tt>
/d for <tt>D:</tt>
/c/WINNT for C:\WINNT
etc.

Jakub Wasilewski
Member #3,653
June 2003
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Quote:

In MSYS, can I touch /arbitrary_file? And is C actually mounted at /c?

Come on, I'm starting to think you didn't even use it once ;).

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[ ChristmasHack! | My games ] :::: One CSS to style them all, One Javascript to script them, / One HTML to bring them all and in the browser bind them / In the Land of Fantasy where Standards mean something.

CGamesPlay
Member #2,559
July 2002
avatar

Quote:

Come on, I'm starting to think you didn't even use it once ;)

Honestly, I used it to compile Allegro, and because it was so ugly, never went back :) That scrollbar is hideous! Also I have Cygwin and MSYS memories both to sort out ;)

And I suppose some of you are thinking that I'm just searching for a reason to not like it, but this is my second reason for disliking windows: Windows' GUI is ugly and inefficient. KDE is pretty and I have it streamlined for my machine.

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Tomasu: Every time you read this: hugging!

Ryan Patterson - <http://cgamesplay.com/>

kentl
Member #2,905
November 2002

Quote:

That scrollbar is hideous!

Buhu. Big deal. It sounds like you have ran out of reasons.

Quote:

And I suppose some of you are thinking that I'm just searching for a reason to not like it

Yes.

Quote:

Windows' GUI is ugly and inefficient.

No it isn't. I used KDE for a couple of months before I sswitchedto Gnome which I am currently using on the Linux side. Still, Windows XP:s GUI is faster than both of them. At least it my configuration.

Quote:

KDE is pretty and I have it streamlined for my machine.

You can change how Windows looks as well you know.

Number Six
Member #3,912
October 2003
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Quote:

...and I have it streamlined for my machine.

ahh.. now that there is one of the things I love about Linux! How very configurable things are if you can be bothered to learn how! Once you have a setup that suits you it's awesome.. and devestating when you lose it all for want of a backup! Been there done that multiple times...:-/

Quote:

You can change how Windows looks as well you know.

well yes but... well it seems that you're frequently running into walls with modding Windows.. you often seem to need this App or that explorer replacement to be running first, and I always seem to be put off even trying with Windows. The default is just... accepted and I never really feel like tryying to customize things to fit my needs or tastes..even if that would improve my personal productivity. I dunno maybe it's just my Twilight Zone outlook on things...

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