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How Dead Am I (2)
Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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I took my car out today because I finished rewiring and installing my rear speakers. I was playing around in a parking lot for a very short time (two reverse 180 spins) and much to my surprise, my brake pedal went to the floor! My brakes weren't working anymore! I had to pump it to get my car to slow down. No longer having any appetite for fun, I went to leave the parking lot... and couldn't stop. :o So I pump my brakes over and over locking the tires momentarily each time. It was very loud to say the least (I can't normally lock them that easily in clear weather, as far as I can remember).

The thing is, by time I got to the highway, it wasn't so bad. And by time I got home, it was just about back to normal. It just had a little give left in it.

Now, I know air can get into brake lines and add a mushy feeling to it. However, mine have always been responsive ever since I replaced the rotors and brake pads. Moreover, it doesn't make sense how laying off the brakes (which I weren't using that much) would somehow "cure" them of this problem. I could see them maybe overheating and slipping, much like a clutch does. But I can't see any reason why I'd have zero resistence to pushing the pedal down, and it'd fix (ever so temporarily!) with pumping. It was like I had no hydraulic pressure on the pads and I had to pump it to get it going. This is different from having no power brakes at all, where it's just harder to press and you can't get as much.

I don't have to work the next morning, so hurry and save me before I get myself killed! ;)

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miran
Member #2,407
June 2002

You went to the highway with brakes that didn't work? You do know that guardian angel thing is just a religious myth and god doesn't really exist to protect you, right?

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Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Quote:

You went to the highway with brakes that didn't work? You do know that guardian angel thing is just a religious myth and god doesn't really exist to protect you, right?

Why would you need brakes on a highway? The highway is empty at this hour and I've got engine brakes (as if would need it anyway). The brakes worked, just very poorly. I just had to drive cautiously (like you would if you were driving a very large vehicle). Also, I was preoccupied with "I'm getting the hell home." ;)

I'm off to bed now.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

miran
Member #2,407
June 2002

Quote:

Why would you need brakes on a highway?

To quickly slow down in case of emergency? To slow down and stop for the toll (if you have to pay)? To slow down and stop at red lights when you get off? There could be many reasons...

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Onewing
Member #6,152
August 2005
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Well, miran, not every body stops at red lights like you. Pansy.

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HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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What about handbrake? It is possible to brake with it without locking the wheels.

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Sevalecan
Member #4,686
June 2004
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the parking brake is mechanical but usually poorly maintained(and thus unreliable) unless you use it alot, IIRC(no idea if one tends to use a hand brake more than the floor ones though).

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HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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Of cource it isn't the best way of braking but it should be better than just using the engine.

[edit]
hm, the word "betetr" sounds cool. Perhaps I should patent it or something.

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

Why would you need brakes on a highway? The highway is empty at this hour and I've got engine brakes (as if would need it anyway). The brakes worked, just very poorly. I just had to drive cautiously (like you would if you were driving a very large vehicle).

Darwin in action...

Honestly, if the brakes don't work properly, stear your car to the side, release the gas and pull on the hand break or let friction slow it down. Then call the emergency repair service (you do have one over there, right?)

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

I guess you have air and water in the pipes. Pumping might dissolve the air in the water (not likely in the brake fluid) which will increase the effect of the brakes. Not using the brakes will get the air out of the liquid again. Just a wild theory. Anyway, check the master and slave cylinders and pistons and gaskets and change fluid.

Only really stupid parking brakes cannot be used as emergency brakes. And only stupid drivers don't use the parking brakes every time they park. It's important to let the wires and joints and everything have regular movement. You don't stop your car on a highway with the hand brake, but you prevent annoying small crashes in the street with it. Like rolling your car into a baby carriage.

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jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
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Did the pedal feel firm after pumping and then after a while slump again? If so, then you've got a hydraulic leak.

If you can't find the leak in the brake lines, check out the master cylinder/vacuum assister. Also if the brake pedal movement is sent to the vacuum assister via a cable or a secondary hydraulic link, like in so many other Mitsubishis (which your Talon is anyway), check that out too.

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Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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Serves you right for trying to do clever tricks.

Neil.
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jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
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There there... A reverse 180 is the only way an overweight underpowered front wheel drive car does G-forces. And a quick way to kill CV-joints. ;) However, that doesn't make it a clever trick, it's simply stupid and pointless.

An reverse knight rider turn OTOH is sometimes useful. Remember kids, don't try this at home, at crowded locales, on asphalt or any other well gripping surface (snow or ice, perferred), without power steering or with a rear-wheel drive. It begins as a reverse 180, but at mid-turn the front wheels are locked and while they're locked with the brakes and straightened (when they're locked they don't affect the car's yawing) while simultaneously engaging the first gear and straightening the tires, and when done 180 degrees, accelerating off.

You don't deserve my sig.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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My dad loved to have fun with his Crewcab, Duely 2 ton (I think its a 2 ton, maybe more?), beast of a truck, in winter on slick ice. He'd take to sliding around turns and sliding sideways for fun. And this was with it fully loaded (heavy tools, PVC fittings (the large kind for public swimming pools) and pipe), it must have weighed 4 tons, at least. And he did it just to freak me out. Feeling that much weight sliding around with you inside it can be a bit jarring, or a bit fun, depending on the mood.. and if I remember that the man is nearly blind, and can't read any of the signs untill hes right up to em.

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jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
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Yep. Powersliding a 2500kg Mitsubishi Pajero/Montero in the winter was fun. Some grandmas on the sidewalk waved their fists in the air when i did that. :)

Thoug it was more fun and safero to switch on the 4wd and burn rice rockets at traffic lights.

You don't deserve my sig.

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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Quote:

Yep. Powersliding a 2500kg Mitsubishi Pajero/Montero in the winter was fun

Doing the same with 800kg(?) volvo 340 isn't that bad either ;D
That car is so light that even 20km/h was enough to make the rear end move sideways.

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
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Can I call you Chris 'Deathwish' Katko? :)

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Quote:

Can I call you Chris 'Deathwish' Katko? :)

Sure. I like it. :) My other nickname is Crazy Chris.

Quote:

To quickly slow down in case of emergency?

The road is empty. I also make use of this thing called "steering." It's saved my life quite a few times where brakes wouldn't have stopped me in time.

Quote:

To slow down and stop for the toll (if you have to pay)?

There are no tolls in the ten miles it took to go home.

Quote:

To slow down and stop at red lights when you get off?

First, it goes uphill. Second, I had brakes. I just didn't have good brakes. They worked, I just had to pump them. Also, I did have emergancy brakes and engine brakes.

Quote:

There could be many reasons...

Which don't matter when you're familiar with what your doing.

Quote:

What about handbrake? It is possible to brake with it without locking the wheels.

Yeah. But it doesn't work well at all. The tension is way too low, so if you pull it as hard as you can it'll only gently slow you down. I drove home one day with one wheel's handbrake still engaged (the cable seized) and I didn't even notice till I was getting on the off-ramp (I slowed down slightly more than usual). Of course, I baked the poor rim and I need to change my pads and rotor now. This could be linked though. I might have damaged the rear brake system.

Quote:

the parking brake is mechanical but usually poorly maintained(and thus unreliable) unless you use it alot, IIRC(no idea if one tends to use a hand brake more than the floor ones though).

Oh, I use mine a lot! Just not for parking... Especially because it siezes in the winter.

Quote:

Darwin in action...

Say whatever you want. But you guys are crazy. You're so afraid of the world! :o I wasn't "in danger" at any point! If I can drive my car with bald tires in the rain, if I can drive my car with no ABS in the rain (never had it to begin with), if I can drive my car with no powersteering or powered braking, if I can drive my car with two-cylinders, I think I can manage occasionally pumping my brakes. Now, I know you'll say doing each one of those things is stupid. Have at it. However, when you're stuck in the middle of nowhere in the freezing cold, you don't have a choice. It's either walk and pray, or drive and pray. I'm gonna drive, thank you very much. :P

Quote:

Did the pedal feel firm after pumping and then after a while slump again? If so, then you've got a hydraulic leak.

If you can't find the leak in the brake lines, check out the master cylinder/vacuum assister. Also if the brake pedal movement is sent to the vacuum assister via a cable or a secondary hydraulic link, like in so many other Mitsubishis (which your Talon is anyway), check that out too.

Yeah, it did. My Dad also mentioned to check for a vacuum leak. All of my fluid levels are fine (minus my powersteering fluid leak). The strange thing is that it went away as I drove home (like when an overheated clutch cools off).

Quote:

There there... A reverse 180 is the only way an overweight underpowered front wheel drive car does G-forces. And a quick way to kill CV-joints. ;) However, that doesn't make it a clever trick, it's simply stupid and pointless.

Hey now! 140 BHP in a car that weighs only 2500 lbs is not underpowered. :P

Quote:

An reverse knight rider turn OTOH is sometimes useful. Remember kids, don't try this at home, at crowded locales, on asphalt or any other well gripping surface (snow or ice, perferred), without power steering or with a rear-wheel drive. It begins as a reverse 180, but at mid-turn the front wheels are locked and while they're locked with the brakes and straightened (when they're locked they don't affect the car's yawing) while simultaneously engaging the first gear and straightening the tires, and when done 180 degrees, accelerating off.

What do you think I was doing. :P I figured that if I locked the front tires (no ABS, ha!) I could stall the transmission's intermediate shaft, thereby allowing me to go from reverse to 1st gear without grinding (as my sycros aren't that good). I was practicing it, but second run the brakes went out.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
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Quote:

Hey now! 140 BHP in a car that weighs only 2500 lbs is not underpowered.

Yes it is. And especially when it is in fact a 135hp car that weighs a gargantuan 1300kg (2800lbs). That's very little badly behaving horses pulling a big wagon.

You don't deserve my sig.

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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Quote:

I wasn't "in danger" at any point!

Perhaps you weren't but the sorry dude who might have jumped on the road right in front of your car would have been ;)

I agree that havign bad brakes usually is not that bad problem. It just takes a whole lot more time to stop the car. If there had been a situation where you couldn't react fast enough you would have been screwed.

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Quote:

Yes it is. And especially when it is in fact a 135hp car that weighs a gargantuan 1300kg (2800lbs). That's very little badly behaving horses pulling a big wagon.

Source said:

Curb Weight, lbs. 2549

Source

My car is classified as a subcompact. Now, I'm not saying it's got anything in the upper MPH ranges. I drop into third at 75 MPH and I'm still not accelerating that fast. But at lower speeds, the thing flys. It's got more than 400 ft-lbs of torque in first gear. So it's not amazing, but it's still respectible for the size.

Quote:

Perhaps you weren't but the sorry dude who might have jumped on the road right in front of your car would have been ;)

How do you jump in front of someone... on the highway? There's on-ramps, and off-ramps, and two empty lanes.

Quote:

I agree that havign bad brakes usually is not that bad problem. It just takes a whole lot more time to stop the car. If there had been a situation where you couldn't react fast enough you would have been screwed.

Yeah. But I've been in that situation already and survived. I was driving my mother's van, doing the speed limit of 70 MPH. There was an accident on the other road, but this one was completely unaffected. Well, apparently some lovely seniors decided to do 30 MPH so they could watch. >:( So in an instant from clearing a hill, my car was at theirs. I slammed on the brakes. I couldn't go in the passing lane because someone was passing me! So, I swerved into the emergancy shoulder lane between their car and the metal railing. With the ABS brakes in the floor, I almost passed their car. I actually passed the passenger in their car with my brakes maxed out. I saved myself, their stupid ass lives, both our cars, and my sister; because I knew how to drive. Unlike their stupid asses...

It's really funny how many times I've almost died because of stupid people... in the less than a year I've been driving. Actually, it's not funny, it's horrifying, but I try to keep a positive outlook on life. ;)

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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Quote:

But I've been in that situation already and survived.

If you had had a similar situation last night you probably wouldn't have been that lucky

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
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HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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... only everyone else around him should :P

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
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Quote:

Curb Weight, lbs. 2549

For base model. Yours is not, remember. It's got the Mitsubishi 4G63 that is a lot bigger heap of metal than the 4G37 in the base model. It's around 1230kg. 1300kg was overestimated but i was only bit off, so sue me. :)

Still heavy though, for that little power. ;)

You don't deserve my sig.

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