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Allegro.cc seems to have changed.
BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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In discussion with a couple people, we came upon this issue (some people on AIM, a discussion on #allegro, etc). Allegro.cc seems to have changed.

Even i see a change from when i first signed up here. When i asked dumb, rtfm-y questions (note: X-G, this isn't a bash on you...) i generally got an explination, not "RTFM." We have grown not-newb friendy kindof. Sometimes an RTFM is warranted, other times it simply isn't.

Another thing.. everybody is soooo secretive. "MY SEEKRET PROJACT!" No details, no screenshots, nothing. It is like nobody is doing a God darn thing around here. Not as many people are using Allegro anymore either, it seems.

One more thing, everyone has turned into "NO SCREENSHOT NO DOWNLOAD." Why? Why not just try the game/demo/whatever it is? I download almost everything posted when people ask for reviews on it. It seems unjustified, somebody (esp. newbies) working real hard on something to present it to us, and some say no screenshot, no download. That would just destroy their motivation and slowly drag them down into not wanting to post or announce stuff here anymore.

It just has a different feel and attitued in the forums and such than i remember it being. That being said, i'm not trying to reform or anything, I just had this thought come back to me after reading a couple of threads. Make of it as you will.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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I can explane this one easily. You get TIRED of answering the SAME question over and over. Especially when there are plenty of automated ways to do so.

If you need a more specific answer then a tutorial/article/previous post, GO FOR IT. But for example, people need to stop asking how to make a game run at the same speed! It's been documented! :)

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

the_y_man
Member #1,770
December 2001
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yeah i miss good old mondays (or whatever day) when we get "Let's make a supper dupper programming team"

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Quote:

It is like nobody is doing a God darn thing around here.

Basically true. :)

I'm kind of opposed to the "no screenshot, no download" bit too. Type a descriptive post and I'll check it out.

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Oscar Giner
Member #2,207
April 2002
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Quote:

Another thing.. everybody is soooo secretive. "MY SEEKRET PROJACT!" No details, no screenshots, nothing. It is like nobody is doing a God darn thing around here.

You got it ;)

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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Yves -> im not talking about that. ::)

Chris: Maybe i will write a new tutorial, like an update vivace, that will explain it all to newbies. once and for all. Even saying RTFT(read the fudgey tutorial) is better than rtfm :P

[edit]
23 + Oscar posted while i replied. Either im typing slow today or everyone hit post reply at the same time ;)

Sirocco
Member #88
April 2000
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On the point of asking questions... this is one of the (potentially) strongest communities on the net, and one that I'd like to think all Allegrites should be proud of. And yes, there are certain questions that are asked with alarming frequency, but we should at least point people to the relevant documents/threads that may be helpful. If you don't have anything relevant to post (i.e. a response that actually helps) then perhaps it would be better to stay your hand and move on to another thread.

As for secrecy, I suppose people have been bitten by the shareware bug, and don't want to tip their hands. That's fine; just make sure it gets posted here when you're done with it ;)

-->
Graphic file formats used to fascinate me, but now I find them rather satanic.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Yesterday is always better than today.

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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Quote:

One more thing, everyone has turned into "NO SCREENSHOT NO DOWNLOAD." Why?

I'm rather opposed to this as well, and I don't think it would hold 100% true for most people.

OTOH, I don't like posts like the following:

Try my game said:

I'm not going to waste the time to copy and paste the url into the address bar if they're not even going to have the time to post an even vaguely descriptive paragraph or two.

When I post something to be tested by other people, it usually goes something like this:

My project finally released! said:

This is the first release of project. I've been working on project for X amount of X time measurement. The graphics are X, here's some screen shots.
<img 1>
<img 2>
<img 3>

Let me know what you think. You can find it here
Y helped with the graphics, Z helped with the sound and music. Lots of thanks! :)

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

X-G
Member #856
December 2000
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Quote:

It seems unjustified, somebody (esp. newbies) working real hard on something to present it to us, and some say no screenshot, no download. That would just destroy their motivation and slowly drag them down into not wanting to post or announce stuff here anymore.

Eh, I don't think it would. Taking a screenshot and posting it when prompted takes a maximum of what, ten minutes? It's not unreasonable to ask. The "no screenshot, no download" maxim is nice, IMO. Rolls off the tongue.

It's all really about delivering a strong enough first impression that people feel compelled to download the game in question, and not wanting to show screenshots comes off as amateurish and annoying. Like you're ashamed of your graphics or something, or alternatively that you're too lazy to take a screenshot. Neither gives off a very good impression of the game.

Anyway, I do what Derezo does. Or I would, if I ever finished anything. :P

As for telling people to RTFM... yes, we do it more. Because we've heard those questions a hundred times before and there's just no merit in answering them over and over again where a pointer to the manual is easier and just as good.

EDIT: Heh, added some stuff.

--
Since 2008-Jun-18, democracy in Sweden is dead. | 悪霊退散!悪霊退散!怨霊、物の怪、困った時は ドーマン!セーマン!ドーマン!セーマン! 直ぐに呼びましょう陰陽師レッツゴー!

Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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You also should take into account the lightning-quick accuracy and knowledge of the community. I post a question and BAM!! it's answered. If not then I'm definately pointed in the right direction.

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Rampage
Member #3,035
December 2002
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I was once subscribed to a mailing list about C programming . It was a wonderful and active community for about a year, but then the newbs came in with their homework questions and demanding attitudes. Unfortunately, they were too many and too noisy, and all the good elements went away, tired of threads like 'Do this for me. I want it by Friday' and 'Stop telling us newbs not to write HEEEELP! in the subject'.

I learned there that a RTFM is still an acceptable answer. The experts could just choose not to answer a question, leaving the newb in the darkest ignorance. An RTFM means that someone actually read the question and cared enough to give a useful answer.

The lesson I learned there is: 'Nobody here is obligated to help you, so why do you say they're rude when they take their time to answer your questions?'.

-R

Pradeepto Bhattacharya
Member #1,340
May 2001

I am sure the following conversation happened between our own spellcaster and your truly will put a few views and ideas expressed in this thread so far into some perspective ( I hope ).

For the sake completeness this happened between 16th Jan and 17th Jan 2003. So you see BAF I was having this feeling a long long time ago.8-) But all is well till now and hopefully it will remain like that in future. AMEN BROTHERS !

Your Truely said:

But thanx man, I mean it, I really enjoy being here, and we all make it happen, sad but bitter truth of life "all good things come to an end" so will this.You must be seeing how many old ppl have leaving the place recently.But never mind that, let enjoy while it lasts.

Nicest spellcaster said:

To speak with Disney: That's the circle of life. I've not been an allegro.cc regular a year ago (or something).
People change interests, move get a family etc.

And I already see people here explain stuff to others I explained them half a year ago. The last year's newbie will be a vet next year.

That's ok. It doesn't mean the community gets weaker. It simply means it changes. Right now we have all these "vets who left or post less" threads here. If one started a "members who started posting regulary" for the same period of time, we might see more names...

So, don't worry:)

BAF : So, don't worry :)

Sirocco and Mark Oates you both couldnot be more correct !

p.s. Spellcaster I hope you will not mind that I put this conversation in public forum. Sincere apologies if you do so.

--
I vote for Pradeepto. - Richard Phipps
Hey; Pradeepto's alive! - 23yrold3yrold

jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
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Quote:

"MY SEEKRET PROJACT!" No details, no screenshots, nothing

If you want to know, this has been keeping me busy. Not that you could enjoy it, unless you learn finnish. :P

We are busy, but doing other things.

You don't deserve my sig.

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

i generally got an explination, not "RTFM." We have grown not-newb friendy kindof. Sometimes an RTFM is warranted, other times it simply isn't.

Personally, I seldom answer with a plain RTFM. Usually, I try to give a short explanation and point to the docs. It's true that I don't take the time to duplicate the docs in my own words though.
I think giving a short explanation and pointing people to the docs is a good thing - the docs are there for a reason, after all.

Quote:

It is like nobody is doing a God darn thing around here.

Again me personally, I have to split my time between work, Allegro, my games and other interests. This slows development on my main Allegro-related programming projects.
For the record, these are the two games I have listed on the depot, a Crystal Castles clone in early stages of development, a chess program, a Xianqi (Chinese Chess) program and a computer version of the board game Carcassonne. The latter is coming along nicely, but I am hesitant to spread it beyond direct friends and acquintences (being a copyrighted product and all).
I probably use Allegro as much as I ever have, if not more.

Quote:

One more thing, everyone has turned into "NO SCREENSHOT NO DOWNLOAD."

I rarely download anything anyway (no time to play test extensively). I do like to get an impression of what people are working on, so I do like a screenshot. But it isn't strongly correlated to me downloading something or not.

Quote:

It just has a different feel and attitued in the forums and such than i remember it being.

Maybe. I don't know, I've seen people say this several times over the past couple of years. I don't know, I think some of the regulars of a while back are posting less and other people are posting more - which certainly affects the feel of the forums. I also read the forums far less closely than I used to now, maybe it's just that.
I don't feel it's particularly better or worse than it used to be though.

Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
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Quote:

As for secrecy, I suppose people have been bitten by the shareware bug, and don't want to tip their hands. That's fine; just make sure it gets posted here when you're done with it ;)

Maybe, true in my case. But don't worry, I'll post all the details when it's online to buy. :)

Perhaps also we are seeing a summer syndrome for most people here, when there are other things to do besides programming. Historically game sales always peak around christmas, and I think this is true of programming as well when it's dark, cold and miserable outside. Although it does depend where you live of course.

:)

Torbjörn Josefsson
Member #1,048
September 2000
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The reason I've been doing the "SIKRIT PROJEKT" limbo is that I've been afraid to burst your minds with the coolness of my game before it's completely done ;) - A danger in giving previews and demos too early is that you risk to erode the interest in your project while it's still in its infancy.

My latest (tentatively called "toblos") will be thoroughly tested by Allegroites before being unleashed upon the world - it's way way way cooler than RotoCube :) - I'm committed to finishing it this autumn, and trying to sell it on my site (extensive demo will be available, of course)

As with regards to the "NS-ND" doctrine, I support it fully - mostly I'm at work when reading this stuff, so I can't try it out, but if a screenshot captures my attention, I try to remember downloading it after working hours - It's NOT that difficult to add a simple screenshot, surely? - Not more than it is for me to download and test the game, right?

Evert: I'm interested in the Carcassone! :)

--
Specialization is for insects

Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
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Also it may be the case that if a few of us release shareware games that this will not only raise the profile of Allegro, but attracts new people here. I know I'm going to have a link here ingame and on the website.

:)

X-G
Member #856
December 2000
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In my case though, any secrecy does indeed mean I'm not doing anything interesting. :P I am doing things, of course. It's just probably not of any interest to anyone on allegro.cc.

--
Since 2008-Jun-18, democracy in Sweden is dead. | 悪霊退散!悪霊退散!怨霊、物の怪、困った時は ドーマン!セーマン!ドーマン!セーマン! 直ぐに呼びましょう陰陽師レッツゴー!

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

Evert: I'm interested in the Carcassone! :)

Ok, it's at [url http://www.eglebbk.dds.nl/carcassonne/]. Screenshots are linked from the page. Available as a Windows installer and as sourcecode.
Source requires libnet to compile in addition to Allegro.

Note that there is a subtle bug in the last version where two road tiles inorrectly render as crossings when they are not (these are bridge-over-road and double-bend tiles). If you don't care for the river expansion, you may be better off grabbing the 0.8.4 release instead.

Kitty Cat
Member #2,815
October 2002
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I think we're RTFM'ing more because less and less people are R'ingTFM.

As for project secrecy.. personally I tend to keep a low profile concerning all my projects for several reasons. For one, the likelyhood of them seeing the light of day is rather low. A few projects of mine have been released, and I'm sure you've heard of at least one of them, though. Another thing is that I want to be able to surprise people when they see what the project is shaping up to be (which my current one isn't even in a state where I can say "this is my project", because it looks like something it's not supposed to be.. which is point #3). If you watch a project's steady progression from scratch to full-product, you'll have a lot less to be excited over because you'll have seen everything seperately already as it's put in, instead of several chunks at once.

Rest assured though, when there is something to (possibly) be excited about, you'll all know. :)

--
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will pee on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

Kanzure
Member #3,669
July 2003
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"no screenshot, no download" is more of an explanation why nice people won't download a game. It's the OP's choice to follow the advice.

As everybody ages, they also gain more and more activities and responsibilities. Surely they (being newcommers) can't expect everybody to drop what they're doing and help them with oogles and oogles of text..?

RTFM, baffles.

:P

Rick
Member #3,572
June 2003
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I would say the elders around here shouldn't even post if all they are going to post is "RTFM". It's very understandable that you don't want to repeat yourselfs so don't post at all and let the non-elders, non-newbies answer the question, like you were so long ago. It's a cycle. When you hit elite status you don't have to answer those type of questions. Let the ones below you do the dirty work. The elders should be working on helping game design/theory.

========================================================
Actually I think I'm a tad ugly, but some women disagree, mostly Asians for some reason.

X-G
Member #856
December 2000
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RTFM embodies sound advice: The answer to their question can be received from just reading the manual. Why should non-elders, non-newbies have to answer the question? Let the manual do the dirty work. The "medium" people should be trying to improve and get better.

--
Since 2008-Jun-18, democracy in Sweden is dead. | 悪霊退散!悪霊退散!怨霊、物の怪、困った時は ドーマン!セーマン!ドーマン!セーマン! 直ぐに呼びましょう陰陽師レッツゴー!

Rick
Member #3,572
June 2003
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for example.

Quote:

xxx xxx
Member# 4,679
June 2004 Posted on 08-08-2004 9:31 AM
How can I load mp3 files with AllegroMP3?

Quote:

X-G
Member# 856
December 2000

Posted on 08-08-2004 9:33 AM

RTFM?

Quote:

Lenman
Member# 4,522
April 2004

Posted on 08-08-2004 12:47 PM
Maybe this will help you.

"this" is linked.

X-G, member since 2000, wrote RTFM.
Lenman, member since 2004, gave a link.

X-G, you shouldn't waste your own time with that post. Let people under you help this guy.

========================================================
Actually I think I'm a tad ugly, but some women disagree, mostly Asians for some reason.



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