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Help me decide if something is tasteful
Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

I'm preparing the next video for my YouTube channel. Sorry bambams, I didn't think I should film myself after the failed experiment, so you're getting sheet music again. ;)

The question is what I should do at the end. Do you think this is a tasteful way to end the video, with the final page peeling back slowly to reveal a 'subscribe' link?

{"name":"609345","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/e\/8\/e8229719780a689045530d2fdedd228d.png","w":1125,"h":633,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/e\/8\/e8229719780a689045530d2fdedd228d"}609345

I could make it more wordy: "If you liked this piece, why not subscribe to be the first to hear my other compositions?" I could also offer more options: a Spotify link, a link to a website (it'll say 'coming soon' for now), and a link to the sonata I uploaded before, but I don't want to give people paralysis of choice. I could also just make it smaller if the general feeling is that it's too much. Of course it's worth noting that anyone who didn't like the music will probably have closed it before they get this far. On the other hand, I suppose I should be careful not to bother people who've already subscribed by making it too big...

Opinions will be very much appreciated :)

By the way, I finally established the mechanism behind the previous video appearing grey for me (previously discussed here):

This page said:

Computers normally use the full range of 0 to 255 to go from the darkest shades to the lightest shades (eg, black=0,0,0 white=255,255,255). The luma channel in YUV video (the Y value) can range from 0 to 255, but full black is defined as 16, and full white is defined as 235. The values from 0 to 16, and 235 to 255, are reserved for overshoot. On a properly calibrated TV 0 to 16 should be full black (you should see no difference between a bar of 0 and a bar of 16) and 235 to 255 should be full white (you should see no difference between a white bar at 235 and a white bar at 255). So most programs that convert YUV to RGB expand the 16-235 luma range to 0-255 RGB. Conversely, when converting RGB to YUV, the 0-255 RGB range is compressed to 16-235 luma. The contrast adjusting method is the REC method, the non contrast adjustment is called the PC method. A few editors use "studio RGB" which doesn't include the contrast enhancement (Sony Vegas is one example).

So it sounds as if VideoPad is encoding Y values from 16 to 235 (roughly), and this computer's hardware YUV->RGB conversion is failing to expand them back to 0 to 255. I checked pixel values in a screenshot and they agreed with this theory. Sure enough, I then tried downloading someone else's video and playing it in VLC, and it exhibited the same problem. This all makes me think I shouldn't worry too much about it as all videos appear to be affected in the same way. I could theoretically try and get overshooting Y values into the video so that my video saturates at full black and white on such hardware, but it would then lose subtlety in the anti-aliasing on normal hardware, so it's probably not helpful. It's good to know that there's nothing wrong with the existing video at least. 8-)

{"name":"609346","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/a\/3\/a3b53709fe3053ae4f5beaa6cd5ad3c2.png","w":675,"h":630,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/a\/3\/a3b53709fe3053ae4f5beaa6cd5ad3c2"}609346

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

StevenVI
Member #562
July 2000
avatar

I don't really watch too many Youtube videos, but seeing a few links at the end of a video certainly isn't unheard of, and I don't find it to be distasteful.

Having four links onscreen at once doesn't seem like too many, as long as they're sufficiently separated.

__________________________________________________
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[ Lander! v2.5 ] [ Zonic the Hog v1.1 ] [ Raid 2 v1.0 ]

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

My advice is that links added to the video are a nuisance. YouTube has standardized the UI that clicking on the video will pause it. It's extremely frustrating when you intend to pause a video and unintentionally click on a link instead. You should keep "annotations" within the video to a minimum.

That said, there's nothing wrong with asking people to subscribe at the end of the video. You could even standardize an "intro" and "outro" so that regulars see it each time, just like television. People that don't care will move on. No harm done. It shouldn't offend people unless you are intrusive.

Heed my previous advice. Don't add a link to the video to subscribe. Don't add a link to the video to your Spotify or whatever other places. There is a more appropriate place for those links! The video description is perfect for those links. It's not a browser object, like Flash. It's plain HTML. It works perfectly with the browser. I can easily open the links in another tab without leaving the page. I can copy them to my clipboard and paste them elsewhere. I am in control. I can access what I want. And you do avoid appearing deceptively desperate. Anybody that wants to subscribe to your channel can use the YouTube controls to do so. Again, they work with the browser properly and aren't intrusive.

There's nothing wrong with encouraging viewers to subscribe in your video. Avoid links to subscribe. I don't really trust links in annotations... Annotations are useful to add sloppy notes after the video has been uploaded if you're [understandably] too lazy to edit the video and re-upload. They come in handy, but they're unprofessional, and should be a last resort. They should be few, and they should be necessary. Avoid links. Don't make them intrusive. Keep them small to limit the users' likelihood of clicking on them accidentally. It's black magic. Users don't want anything to do with them.

If you do post links in your videos make sure that the video highlights them to make them obvious. It's less intrusive if you expect a battlefield of links on screen. I still don't recommend it, but if you're going to do it that's the best way..

When you're displaying a "subscribe" reminder on the screen it's a good idea to include audio or video of you saying it. It's a lot more meaningful to receive that information from a human, and it adds extra layers to the communication that may be effective on a psychological level.

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Wow, you feel strongly! But it sounds as if you're thinking of the spammy ones people put over their whole videos. Do you really take issues with the way these guys do it? Their clickables are more obviously clickable than mine of course, and I could work on that; but quite a few of the most popular channels on YouTube do this.

One thing I'm not going to do with this video is add any audio that isn't the piece itself. It would be jarring. I like to have music playing from YouTube in the background while I'm working, and if I suddenly hear any words, it will distract me from my work. [EDIT] Maybe it's even pushy - it would be a way of forcing myself into people's heads, and people who listen to classical music don't like that.

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

Wow, you feel strongly! But it sounds as if you're thinking of the spammy ones people put over their whole videos. Do you really take issues with the way these guys do it? Their clickables are more obviously clickable than mine of course, and I could work on that; but quite a few of the most popular channels on YouTube do this.

Yes, I do take issue with that. It's annoying. And it's unnecessary. YouTube already shows related links, often from the same author, as suggestions to watch after. These ones are temporary (they disappear when the video ends), and they get in the way of the standard UI. As you said, they did make them stand out somewhat so at least there's a good clue that there are links there, but I still don't prefer it. Of course, you could still put a heading on the screen to "subscribe!" without making it an annotation/link. I don't see why it needs to be a link. If I want to subscribe to an uploader I won't do it with an annotation link. :-/

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Feel free to ignore bams. MANY youtubers place links at the end, often with clips from other videos, and "please like and subscribe" type things. Just think about nice ways to do it. It's pretty much something you need to do if you want to grow your channel.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
avatar

I think your desire for perfection is causing you to worry about things that don't matter. People do thousands of different permutations of UI/messages in their videos. And 99% of them work just fine. And even if you mess up, people will tell you and you can re-upload a fixed version. That's the worst that could happen!

Look at a couple you like, see if anyone says "OMG I HATE IT" (You won't find many), and just go for it.

As long as the content (song) is good, nobody cares how it's wrapped up unless that wrapping gets in the way of the content. So do anything at the end, don't make it blast loud sounds, and nobody will care. The other caveat is don't do much (or anything!) at the beginning usually, because people want to get right to the content and not have to manually advance the seeking just to see it.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Gideon Weems
Member #3,925
October 2003

I dunno. I kinda agree with bams this time and am more inclined to actually subscribe to channels that don't give the whole advertising spiel at the end... though to be honest, I would say such users are in the minority, and besides, like the Katko says, content is what matters at the end of the day.

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Thanks guys :) I won't be putting anything in the way of the beginning.

I am hoping my audience will be composed (;D) of discerning, intelligent people, which means it is important not to be pushy. On the other hand, leaving it out entirely means people won't even think of it. Perhaps it's important to say why people might want to subscribe. Likewise, no one will even think to check for me on Spotify, much less follow me there, if I don't mention it.

Many more compositions on the way!

[Subscribe] to hear them here first
                       or follow me on [Spotify]

I could make it small, but maybe it's still too pushy though. Here's another idea:

Thanks for watching!

If you like my music, there's much more to come.
Check the video description for ways to support me or just to stay informed.

Getting on Spotify takes time, and I haven't even submitted this music yet (I will today), so there is still time to figure out exactly what to do with the video.

Any further thoughts?

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

No need to make the reminders in the video hyperlinks. Add the links to the video description! There are many advantages to that. It doesn't interfere with the user at all. It puts users in control. Their browsers can open links easily. It also makes them indexable by robots for the Web.

Honestly, there are a lot of YouTube personalities that I like and watch routinely, but I do so on YouTube. I have no interest in following them anywhere else. Users that actually use Spotify may care, but the vast majority of your viewers are probably not going to be Spotify users, and you aren't going to be enough motivation for them to check. I honestly don't even know what it is.

By all means do it anyway, but expect it to take a lot of good, routine content before you develop an actual fan base. It will probably take a good 30 quality videos that are interesting to watch and not at all annoying. It's easy to scare users away with little annoyances. I agree with Chris that content is what matters the most. Focus on creating good content and the rest will fall into place. The Internet is literally full of people that think they deserve to be famous. Focus on showing that you're worth watching before you focus on spamming users with ways to follow you. Users will ask you how they can stay in touch if you do a good job on the content. That part is automatic.

That's my advice.

StevenVI
Member #562
July 2000
avatar

bamccaig said:

It's easy to scare users away with little annoyances.

I think anyone who's going to be scared away by a note that "hey, you can subscribe here if you want to hear more of my stuff" wasn't going to subscribe in the first place. :P

Quote:

Focus on creating good content and the rest will fall into place. The Internet is literally full of people that think they deserve to be famous.

I didn't think becoming famous was the goal. I thought this was more of a niche thing. Bruce? ???

__________________________________________________
Skoobalon Software
[ Lander! v2.5 ] [ Zonic the Hog v1.1 ] [ Raid 2 v1.0 ]

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Rest assured, the links were always going to be in the description, whether or not they also make it into the video itself. You're right about Spotify though. People probably browse for music on either YouTube or Spotify, not both. My favourite idea so far is to include it in the description as one of the ways people can support me if they like me, and for the video just to prompt people to have a look down there. A small Subscribe button in the video probably wouldn't hurt; people like you can just ignore it and look for the native one. I'll give it all some more thought over the next few days. The good news is I might be able to manage 30 videos before I run out of compositions :)

bamccaig said:

It's easy to scare users away with little annoyances.

Wait, this is coming from the guy who thought I should have left a video of me being annoying up? ;)

StevenVI said:

I didn't think becoming famous was the goal. I thought this was more of a niche thing. Bruce? ???

I don't know - I probably have a bit of soul searching to do on that one. What I can say for sure is that I love to feel that people like my work, and I'm proud of my music and want people to come across it. I hope that doesn't make me a bad person. Besides, a bit of marketing practice wouldn't go amiss for someone whose first use of allegro.cc was to spam a Shareware game with the subject "You might like this ;)" :-X

Well I guess it's cookie time :)

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

Wait, this is coming from the guy who thought I should have left a video of me being annoying up? ;)

You weren't being annoying. You were being yourself. If people don't like that then they don't like you. Which is fine. Little things do annoy people, and you can't make everybody happy. At the same time, those same little things might be entertaining or pleasant or relatable by others. Annoying is relative. The same goes for those in-video links. Some people probably don't mind them, and power users probably hate them (since they don't work like native links and they limit my control over the video by suddenly changing the meaning of clicking on regions of it).

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Thanks guys! It's up! New thread: https://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/615254

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

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