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It's like people isn't programming videogames anymore, right?
Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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bamccaig said:

The reviews on it are mixed. Sounds like the enemy AI has "aimbots" (something I've noticed in past CoD titles), and a lot of people are complaining that it's completely historically inaccurate: locations, weapons, ... apparently there are black female Nazi soldiers... :-X It's $80 for me on Steam which seems extreme even if it was an amazing experience with no issues..

Didn't you know? Historical accuracy no longer matters so long as you make it diverse.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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I like how they censored the nazi flag when you're in multiplayer, but single player they have nazi flags.

And if they can be progressive enough to have black women nazis... why can't I play as a trans-nazi? Why are they oppressing me?

That said, good for relpatseht for working in an industry he loves.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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That said, good for relpatseht for working in an industry he loves.

From what I've heard, the games industry is akin to slavery. :P Most people apparently burn out after 5 years, or 10 max just from the horrible hours and [relatively] poor pay/benefits/etc (though it's still probably better than mine, so there's that). :P I think there's a difference between loving the work that you do versus loving the industry though.

relpatseht
Member #5,034
September 2004
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So much misinformation.

In multiplayer, they let you choose what your character looks like (because people like character customization). When playing multiplayer, half the time your on the axis and half on the allies. You've chosen what you look like. Why would they take that away from you? It has nothing to do with progressive this or oppression that.

Same with the Nazi flag. That's censored in multiplayer because otherwise the game couldn't ship in Germany (and maybe a few other EU countries).

The engine just doesn't support asymmetric information like that. There are much better places to spend engineering resources than adding it, testing it, etc.

There are shitty places to work in the industry, but none of the places I've ever worked or would ever work. The stereo type is old and doesn't apply so well any longer.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Dude, I'm just poking fun. :P

That's censored in multiplayer because otherwise the game couldn't ship in Germany

Actually that's misinformation. They only have to censor the GERMAN version of the game. Previous COD games even had Nazi flags. ::) You know EXACTLY why they censored this version. Because "omg white supremacists will be emboldened!" There's literally no other difference in situation between the previous WW2 CoD game and this one.

It's pretty sad that millennials are so butthurt they can't even let us enjoy classics like Mel Brooks. "How dare a Jew make fun of Hitler!"

video

Also, re: flags censored for multiplayer. Germany won't let flags in single player either. So that logic completely collapses. So you're either intentionally trying to mislead us, or you listened to your bosses without bothering to analyze it critically. ::)

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

relpatseht
Member #5,034
September 2004
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Sorry, I was reading some youtube earlier. It shakes my faith in humanity.

The engine doesn't support asymmetric information. The maps can't be different in multiplayer for a player in Germany and a player in the US. The hash would fail. They can make a separate release for Germany with no Nazi flags in single player, but the multi-player maps need to be identical between regions.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Fair enough. We probably just had a miscommunication.

Sorry, I was reading some youtube earlier. It shakes my faith in humanity.

That's a great website to lose faith in humanity. Twitter is like 100x that though.

Check out Joe Rogan's podcast. It's like one of the top 5 YT channels out there. He just has experts come on and talk. It's like TV used to be. Actual experts talking about poverty, drugs, Jay Leno talking about the history of comedy, and more.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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I actually unsubbed from a lot of YT channels because they went from talking about multiple topics from gaming, to politics, education, etc., to purely being Anti-SJWs and anti-feminists after the 2014 GamerGate controversy.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

beoran
Member #12,636
March 2011

Well, that's an understandable reaction to the way gamers were maligned. But best not to get stuck on that. Now we know the media and most politicians on any side like to use gaming for a Scapegoat for whatever social ills they perceive.

Best focus on keep on making and playing games and getting our message past the inevitable censorship imposed upon us from all sides.

AMCerasoli
Member #11,955
May 2010
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So, what is the conclusion? ;D

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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I'll never forget John Oliver doing a piece on "internet bullying" and completely ignoring that women bully and framing it as a "men with tiny penises vs poor innocent cute womyns" hit piece.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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Yeah, look at the coverage of GamerGate. You could tell which author was friends with which victimhood candidate. They ignored the facts that came out in The Zoe Post, even ignored that Quinn said Gjoni dumped her due to her cheating and behavior, but every media outlet claimed he was the jilted ex-lover that was dumped by her. The wonderful "Gamers are dead" articles with my personal favorite being "Gamers don't have to be your audience" by Leigh Alexander posted on Gamasutra. Then the articles that claimed it was gamers having issues with women in the industry and trying to chase them out. Never mind that being a journalist doesn't make you in the industry, nor does being a culture critic. Apparently though, making a single game makes you in the industry which is good to know since I released the pong clone back in 2006, I'm safe then ;).

Then the friendships came into play as every article that told the origins of GamerGate claimed their friend was the spark. Some articles claimed Quinn was it, some claimed Anita was it, some claimed Wu was it, saw a few that claimed Leigh and Harper (created a block bot) were it.

Gamers have issue with women playing games and coming into their space. Would work if you completely ignore Amy Hennig, Jade Raymond, Carol Shaw, and the hundreds of women that are in the industry making the games we play everyday, because we obviously hate them.

Then you have NBC's latest anti-gamer, "blame GamerGate", Discord hit piece:

video

AAA Dev commenting on it (Disclaimer: my tweet starts the video):
video

And article mentioned in video calling out NBC fabricating information:
https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2017/10/nbc-news-publishes-fake-news-edits-tweets-blame-gamergate-harassment/43156/

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

amarillion
Member #940
January 2001
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People get too worked up over nothing, on both sides of the debate.

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--
Martijn van Iersel | My Blog | Sin & Cos | Tegel tilemap editor | TINS 2017

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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People get too worked up over nothing, on both sides of the debate.

The element that added fuel to the fire was when game journalists, the people that stood by gamers when Jack Thompson attacked them for being murder simulators suddenly sided with a new critic that was saying games were sexist, but they doubled down and actually started docking points in rating systems for sexism, sexualized characters, etc.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

OnlineCop
Member #7,919
October 2006
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The last version of Allegro I used was 4.2, and that was only because there were others working on the same project. If I can't work in a team, I usually have little motivation to work on a project.

After Allegro, I started Unity and had to learn C# for it. At the time, they had a Javascript hybrid they called Unityscript, which they are deprecating, which helped some of the transition to their engine easier if you didn't know C#. It was a love-hate relationship, but I found that coding games was at least pleasant.

From there, we attempted to write a VR game in Unity but Unity had virtually no VR support then, and everything was jittery/laggy to the point of being unusable. So our small team (of 3 or 4; I forget) reinvented the game under Unreal using C++ (since we all came from a C++ background).

Unreal's blueprints were kind of a weird combination for us. It was certainly easy to switch back and forth between "hook up this wire to that node" and see instant results without having to recompile, but when most of the game assets were these binary blueprints, it made collaboration nearly impossible. So we had to shift almost entirely away from blueprints and code all the functionality in source. Each recompile took no fewer than 4 minutes, since it had to include the entire Unreal Engine's sources as well.

If something were to compel me to learn and work with Allegro 5, it would have to be a project that has more than a few members each working on something. Nothing helps me out more than "Hey... how would I do this thing?" and get instant feedback, rather than ask a forum some vague question in a way that doesn't give away too much IP. :P

I actually liked the Monday threads, especially when Allegro 5 was just coming out and we were using it to learn the new interface/API. But it fizzled and died. I just didn't have the motivation to learn it if I would be the "lone person working on it."

I made a VR game!

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Allegro 5's API can be learned in a a day. Much less if you're actually used to programming proper modern Windows programs.

The only differences are:

- Everything is videocard. So don't do pixel manipulations unless you have to. This is true for every modern API. All graphics get sent by default to the "double buffer" in VRAM so you don't specify the destination in every draw call. Instead, if you ever want a different destination you call a specific al_set_target (or something like that). It's super rare I ever need that.

- Event queues exist. No more timer threading/volatile crap. Just make a timer, attach it to a queue, and have a "message handler" switch statement inside your main loop. Timers, keyboard, mouse, everything all fires off "messages" that get handled in your message/event handler. (Which is how Windows has worked since what? Pre Windows 95?)

That's about it.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002

Allegro 5's API can be learned in a a day.

Agreed. It was a little different at first, being used to Allegro 4, but after a few questions in these forums I became more comfortable with it. For a few functions which I really missed in Allegro 4, I simply made up my own with Allegro 5 which called Allegro 5 functions properly. Like a Wait_For_Keypress() or whatever, I just made my own.

I was always fairly impressed With Allegro 5... except with the sound. I think some people forgot that Allegro was originally made to make things easier, and Allegro 4 done that in spades. But there are aspects of the sound system in Allegro 5 that drive me up the wall. In Allegro 4, I could easily vary the pitch on the fly. In Allegro 5, nope. I have been told a few times how to accomplish this, but it feels like a lot of hoops to jump through for what used to be readily available in Allegro 4. And the lack of a default GUI, which is minor but it is a thing. Usually newer versions improve a library, not take away from it.

Otherwise, I prefer Allegro 5 for the most part... when I use Allegro anyhow, which I have done for all my projects up until recently. Trying some new things out now (sadly). But then again, I haven't been coding much anymore, all the ideas have been taken it seems and my enthusiasm is waning (age perhaps? It sucks).

beoran
Member #12,636
March 2011

I think a simplex pure C GUI library for Allegro5 would be a great contribution. There are a few out there, but they need some love. And improvements to the sound system would be welcome.

If you don't feel inspired to write your own games, you can still contribute to Allegro. 8-)

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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I honestly haven't done anything with sound so maybe it's got some issues. I did try (and give up) like twice to do an audio generator and gave up out of frustration.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002

Don't get me wrong, Allegro 5 does sound just fine. My Deluxe Pacman 2 game is 100% Allegro 5. I just can't do certain effects with it like pitch without jumping through a lot of hoops. In the end, my game sounds just fine and I am pleased with it, so this is admittedly a minor thing. If I had the skill to improve Allegro 5 I would, so I don't want to complain too much when people donate their free time to this. And I honestly prefer my own "GUI", as I don't normally need anything fancy for a video game, so that is also a minor thing.

Compiling Allegro... well... when people can easily download premade binaries for SDL2, that's hard to resist. Though Edgar has done a nice job in that regard.

Niunio
Member #1,975
March 2002
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I'm working in a game engine now. Does it count? 8-)

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Current projects: Allegro.pas | MinGRo

beoran
Member #12,636
March 2011

It certainly does! Pascal is not very fashionable these days, but it's a nice language to learn programming with. My first language was Pascal. ;D

Niunio
Member #1,975
March 2002
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You should back. Both Allegro.pas and Mingro are still "alpha" because they're not complete but they're quite stable with Free Pascal compiler. :)

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Current projects: Allegro.pas | MinGRo

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