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Fracking
Striker
Member #10,701
February 2009
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Do you want such a tap?

video

1. No
2. Yes
3. I don't care
4. I'm a looser with no onion


;D

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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Well, we're yet to see evidence of water contamination. It does however highly increase earthquake frequencies, that's a fact.
But oh well.. Wall Street makes money, and some businessmen make money. So who cares?

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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type568 said:

Wall Street makes money, and some businessmen make money.

You forgot the part where consumers get their petroleum fix. This whole thing reminds me of the people fighting "unclear energy" in spite of the alternatives causing acid rain etc.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Striker
Member #10,701
February 2009
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In Bavaria fracking is forbidden. That was realized with the law about clean groundwater.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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"Clean coal" is the future. 8-) Now it's even delivered straight to your house! Only the liberal media would complain about such a feature.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

"Clean" coal creates more CO2 for energy produced than any other fuel, because all the energy comes from burning carbon. With natural gas, you get heat from four hydrogen atoms (producing water) along with each carbon atom.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Please tell me you noticed my rampant sarcasm.

Coal has sulfur, soot, nitrogen, mercury, and even bits of uranium. It also kills people every year who mine for it.

A "clean coal" power plant has never actually been implemented, even though the "theoretically possible" power plant has been touted in advertisements. The one plant they said was going to be installed and bragged about? Too bad, they decided "climate regulation was too ensure and the economy too weak" so they scraped it--but not till after getting $330 million in DOE grants to start the project. They then put it on a smaller test bed, only to shut it off after they proved it could work--even while bragging about the 50,000 metric tons of CO2 they captured in two years.

That's right. They both bragged about saving the environment, and shut off the very thing they were bragging about.

Coal, like other parts of the energy industry, is rampant with self-serving lobbyists that don't care how many people die, or how much our ecosystem gets damaged.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

Fracking releases trapped gas so of course some of it can get into a water well if that well is above a gas deposit. Gas well protections can fail, but there must be some blame that can be placed on poorly constructed water wells.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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States like Oklahoma that use fracking are actually experiencing their highest number of Earthquakes on record.

Quote:

For 30 years—from 1978 until 2008—Oklahoma experienced an average of two earthquakes per year that measured 3.0 of bigger. But then something crazy happened. In 2009, the number of earthquakes began to shoot up. [...] Last year there were 109 earthquakes of 3.0 or bigger in Oklahoma—a record high. But by one-third of the way through this year, Oklahoma had already logged 145 earthquakes of that magnitude.

Bummer.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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It's a pretty obvious result. Fracking uses high pressure to fracture large areas of rock to release the gas. Of course its going to cause some instability. Yeesh.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Striker
Member #10,701
February 2009
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The contamination of the groundwater seems even more dangerous to me than earthquakes. An earthquake lasts a short time, to purify groundwater may take much longer.

German government is still discussing, it seems they may allow fracking with water and sand in special cases, but they are not going to allow groundwater contamination with chemicals.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Forget about purifying the groundwater. It is now pretty much permanently contaminated. Even if they only use water/sand for the pressurization, there are still a lot of hydrocarbons stuck in the rock that are now going to contaminate the water table.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Apparently fracking is destroying many states aquifers.

But that's okay, right? Because power companies have our best interests at heart.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Not even power companies. mining/drilling companies.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Striker
Member #10,701
February 2009
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What do we, animals and plants drink when the groundwater is a chemical cocktail? Coca Cola? :o

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Probably invade another country that still has good water.

Canada is already getting demands from the US about water rights...

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

I was under the impression that the aquifers were being depleted by excessive extraction of water.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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The one's that aren't contaminated (yet) ;)

Though, a lot of that extraction is being done for bottled water. It's funny. Companies like Pepsi, and especially nestle are starting to get into "hot water" due to their abuse of local water regulations. They essentially pay nothing for the water, deplete as much as they can, then sell it for as much as possible.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
avatar

Striker said:

What do we, animals and plants drink when the groundwater is a chemical cocktail? Coca Cola? :o

I'm afraid Coca Cola isn't as well represented in the Congress as Exxon Mobil is, so I bet you'll be drinking petroleum. I assure you they'll find some doctors who'll find enough arguments for the judges to believe replacing water with oil does not harm your health.

m c
Member #5,337
December 2004
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The nation is failing in its duty (protecting the interests of the people that inhabit its territories), the result of corruption.

Making jokes about it just relieves pressure which helps the exploitation continue.

(\ /)
(O.o)
(> <)

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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m c said:

Making jokes about it just relieves pressure which helps the exploitation continue.

You're right. Tell me how all my letters to my congressman concerning Edward Snowden made a significant impact on society.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Striker
Member #10,701
February 2009
avatar


The cause of these problems with fracking is again the different philosophy.

Everybody has a philosophy, if he wants or not. These people who are responsible for the fracking have the philosophy of pure materialism. They believe they are material bodies and when the material body dies everything is over. Then they don't need to care what happens decades later. To earn as much money as possible in the moment appears as the only sense of life for them.

People with a wider spiritual view have a deeper understanding. They know at the death of the material body the soul lives on. It is useless to collect loads of money and other material things for the few years the material life will last. It is much more important to satisfy God to have a good existence after death ("go to heaven").

To satisfy God it is necessary to respect nature, protect the groundwater and to care for the ecological balance on earth. That way we can show we have an intelligence and are able to use the ressources wisely God has given to us. 8-)

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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I don't really believe in a soul that goes on, or a god. but I do happen to care about humanity's future, especially my descendants futures.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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"I" think of the soul as a more abstract representation of what was, is, and ever will be of ("my"?) existence. It has been granted to me by my ancestors, entrusted to me while I am here, and will either move on to descendants or.... stop occurring.

Having said that... fracking is stupid, but currency, jobs, economy and national pride are way more important than trying to be smart so just stop it and get a hair cut.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Striker
Member #10,701
February 2009
avatar

After the Vedas the soul is a spiritual (immaterial) particle with the size of a ten thousandth tip of a hair. It can build any spiritual form around it. For a human incarnation it builds a form that is exactly the same like the material body. As long the human lives these two bodies take the same place, they are so much connected that one could think they are the same. When the material body dies the spiritual body stays alive. Thats what people have named a "ghost".

It is right, following the philosophy of the Vedas, fracking is by far not the only problem of mankind. In almost all aspects of modern human live there would be changes necessary. But as long as people follow the philosophy of pure materialism nothing will change, it will only get worse.

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