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Police officer killed by man who...
Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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While the media does have a lot of things to answer for, they're hardly culpable in this incident.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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The perpetrator and one cop died. There was no need to blow it up like they did, a car accident where two people die doesn't get this sort of attention. It's to get the chattering class worked up emotionally to buy more newspapers or whatever. It's also true that this was "intentional" vs. a car accident merely being the result of people being dumb, but the cop signed on for a somewhat dangerous job, and the perp apparently desired the end result.

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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There was no need to blow it up like they did

If the media has blown it our of proportion, than that's different matter. The story doesn't seem to have made it outside the US though... well until Christ posted about it anyway.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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There was no need to blow it up like they did,

Kind of like the entire world is notified when all of three Tesla cars catch fire, yet nobody reports when 150,000 gasoline cars catch fire per year. They also ignore the fact that nobody died in the Tesla car fires, whereas 800 per year are injured, and 300 per year are killed in gas vehicles relating to fires.

http://www.evanmiller.org/tesla-fires.html

Here's a now famous video of an idiot hitting a piece of concrete with his Tesla at 110 MPH:

https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1*jX6zAXW-xmUgkNDhi891zQ.gif

And even then, because that impact caused a small fire (that the computer system warned the passenger to get out long before it was even noticable!), Elon Musk was like "That's not good enough! Add Titanium Underarmor for ALL THE VEHICLES. FOR FREE."

Apparently "Journalistic Integrity" is a bigger oxymoron and better fitting than the classic "Military Intelligence."

LennyLen said:

well until Christ posted about it anyway.

This is not the first time someone has made that typo. I'm starting to feel flattered. 8-)

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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Kind of like the entire world is notified when all of three Tesla cars catch fire

Sorry, but USA is not the world. I read the news every day, and Tesla motors has never even come up in any way.

Quote:

This is not the first time someone has made that typo. I'm starting to feel flattered.

As you should. T was even near where I was typing so it must hve been divinely added. ;)

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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I'm sorry your country isn't apart of the United World of America. ;)

It will be soon...

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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I just want to say that I love John Oliver and want to gay marry him.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Bob Keane
Member #7,342
June 2006

LennyLen said:

Sorry, but USA is not the world. I read the news every day, and Tesla motors has never even come up in any way.

I haven't heard the cars caught fire. I guess I'm not in America.

By reading this sig, I, the reader, agree to render my soul to Bob Keane. I, the reader, understand this is a legally binding contract and freely render my soul.
If we get apple juice from squeezing apples, and we get prunes from drying out plums, where does prune juice come from?
Hi Randall Monroe.

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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LennyLen said:

Sorry, but USA is not the world. I read the news every day, and Tesla motors has never even come up in any way.

I heard about the Tesla catching fire & stock plummeting. Is Russia already America? I just fled Israel for that reason. :P

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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What's your experience with the situation inside Israel? It feels like, watching from afar it's quite confusing. One day you'll see a terrible story, and the next, a heart-warming token of humanity.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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I'm not inside Israel. I hate what's going on there, and while Hamas are just terrorists, Israel could've fared much better. They've got a system to render Hamas offensive nearly useless, but instead of proving Hamas is useless they fight it. And blood is Hamas's fresh air.

Relevant & representitive stuff:
{"name":"608768","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/b\/6b190d9bebaf9be3b95d644108624ad3.jpg","w":508,"h":283,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/b\/6b190d9bebaf9be3b95d644108624ad3"}608768
This one a bit outdated, more dead from both sides & more fired. And well now there's an invasion.

{"name":"Color-Israel-Hamas.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/7\/0\/7007160d06dec8b52f35c07d80716277.jpg","w":600,"h":465,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/7\/0\/7007160d06dec8b52f35c07d80716277"}Color-Israel-Hamas.jpg
Another irony.

{"name":"palestinian+way+of+war.jpeg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/f\/6\/f67c710a5259de155206772ce045370c.jpg","w":499,"h":153,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/f\/6\/f67c710a5259de155206772ce045370c"}palestinian+way+of+war.jpeg
And this is particularly true. Although I'd replace the word Palestine with Hamas.

IMO these three images sum most of the story.

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

Based on everything I've read about the conflict, Hamas is the aggressor. They seem to always be the ones to break cease fire, and if they just stopped firing rockets at civilians, Israel would stop retaliating by attacking launch sites. Israel tries to avoid civilian casualties, while Hamas couldn't give a damn how many of their human shields are lost.

Slartibartfast
Member #8,789
June 2007
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type568 said:

They've got a system to render Hamas offensive nearly useless, but instead of proving Hamas is useless they fight it.

Because ignoring rockets being thrown at you is a good idea?
Because being forced into hiding several times a day is fun and stimulates the economy?
And its not like it is even a 100% preventative measure. IIRC Iron Dome is able to intercept ~90% of the rockets it attempts to intercept, so if hundreds of rockets should hit you, tens of rockets will hit you. Likely one of the most important elements of preventing damage is actually just the alarms telling people when to hide.

What's your experience with the situation inside Israel? It feels like, watching from afar it's quite confusing. One day you'll see a terrible story, and the next, a heart-warming token of humanity.

That terrible story looks like it is concealing some information, like the reason the hospital was shelled. I'm not familiar with that particular case but:
1) Likely the hospital houses rockets, put there intentionally by Hamas to create bad publicity for Israel. If you don't believe they do that sort of thing then take it from UNRWA of all organizations...
2) You have to appreciate the dedication it takes to phone your target ahead of time to make sure they don't get hurt[1]. And you have to despise Hamas for encouraging people to ignore those phone calls and create martyrs of themselves.
Generally speaking, Hamas is great at fabricating news stories (or more likely, the media just doesn't care because they can get a sensationalist headline or because they have an agenda). Some examples from the top of my head are:
1) Pictures of a woman wailing and crying over her dead child are published. Two days later videos show the child is alive and well.
2) Pictures of civilians badly injured in Gaza because of Israeli action are published. Pictures turn out to be of civilians badly injured in Syria because of Assad's actions.
3) An "interview" with a shocked and injured person are published in foreign media, lamenting the state of the palestinians and the cruelty of Israel. Except they fail to notice the interview comes from Israeli media, is in Hebrew, and is with a survivor of a terrorist attack...
That's not to say that all reports of hurt/dead civilians are fabricated; There are indeed civilian casualties, except:
1) "Civilian targets" are attacked because Hamas hides rockets and attack/smuggling tunnels and HQs inside civilian buildings (and often high profile buildings like hospitals). Sometime civilians are made to stay in places they know are to be bombed so they will become martyrs.
2) As in all wars there are some civilian casualties. Israel goes out of its way to avoid them (by calling ahead of time, by using more expensive, more sophisticated and less deadly weapons etc.), but it happens, and the civilian/militant death ratio is far far better than pretty much any war ever.

There is lots more to say about the nefarious things Hamas does, including how they subjugate their own population, but I won't go into it for now.
As for

Quote:

What's your experience with the situation inside Israel?

Its a bitch. Even in "safe" places after a while you get paranoid whenever you hear a sound ascending in frequency, "is that an alarm?".
The political situation is also a bitch. On the one hand your enemy is Hamas whose express purpose is destroying you entirely. On the other hand your own prime minister is actively working to maintain the status quo since that's what helps him get elected :(

But enough venting for now.

References

  1. And this is not just a special courtesy extended to that hospital because it is a hospital, all civilians that could potentially be hurt get these.
type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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On the other hand your own prime minister is actively working to maintain the status quo since that's what helps him get elected :(

Indeed it does. Generally speaking there's no political force ANYWHERE willing to make peace. Everyone related to it anyhow benefits from it.

You're totally right about Hamas hiding weapons in a school, UNRWA did confirm this. However, in order to be sure one has to check that on UNRWA website, which I did.

I also totally agree with you there's a lot of lies by Hamas to make the casualties(or make up casualties) so that people get emotional.

However: I ain't got appropriate proof about the Israeli warnings, although at least in certain cases that is the case indeed, and generally IDF work really is impressive. I hate their orders though.

Quote:

Because ignoring rockets being thrown at you is a good idea?
Because being forced into hiding several times a day is fun and stimulates the economy?

I really think there are two ways to beat Hamas: zero Gaza(literally, million+ dead), or weaken people's support for Hamas. The latter can be achieved by ignoring the strikes, and not killing people. Of course nothing is free, but it might very well be cheaper(both economically, and let less people die) in the long run & in the short run.

Oh, and I'm not comparing Israel to Hamas, latter is worse. Just I think Israel can destroy it the using the 2nd method, and then negotiate with someone new.

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