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Allegro 5 Book
AleX-G Squadron
Member #13,593
October 2011
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Hi all!
I have like a year that i have stopped allegro programming for 2 big reasons:

1) Because i had to start web development for personal reasons
2) There was no book! If there was a book, i would have been using allegro.

Why do i need a book? Because if there is no book, there is no real guide.
When it comes to programming, you have to learn theory by the book and practice by videos and practice. I know that is the manual, but i only managed to add an icon to my game. The manual is not simple, really. It is like it was written by a robot. He will not understand what you want to. Does the manual tell me how can i make 2 doors that teleport the player?
I know it sounds stupid, but really, i see great potential in allegro and a book is ruining a lot of its brightness. Not to talk about 2 guide videos (mike geig and coding made easy)
Why only some people got the right information? Why i cant create the game i want only because i cant have a book? (and the book is only where it starts)
I hope you understand

www.anothergames.com

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Does the manual tell me how can i make 2 doors that teleport the player?

Get a general game programming book for that. That has absolutely nothing to do with allegro itself. The wiki has some tutorials that are a lot better for some people than just reading the manual.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

J-Gamer
Member #12,491
January 2011
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Edit: beaten

" There are plenty of wonderful ideas in The Bible, but God isn't one of them." - Derezo
"If your body was a business, thought would be like micro-management and emotions would be like macro-management. If you primarily live your life with emotions, then you are prone to error on the details. If you over-think things all the time you tend to lose scope of priorities." - Mark Oates

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Does the manual tell me how can i make 2 doors that teleport the player?

That's way too specific for a game library. Google is your friend here. And have you noticed the wiki?

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

AleX-G Squadron
Member #13,593
October 2011
avatar

I dont know but your replies seem just for justification.
My question is: allegro 5 book. Any? NO! Epic fail.
Videos? Only 2 guys! I hope you find them!
Wiki is like a manual. I hate wiki. The manual is better.
This is why i wrote the sentence:
"I know that is the manual"
I learned to make great websites for a year whereas with allegro just a game with a ship.
Really, nothing else. There is a big problem. This is a great game engine. It got potential.
No books, 2 videos. Really, a year has passed, nothing changed.

The teleportation is an example, which you based all your reply on that.
I mean that is there a book to make a very very very very simple game?

My question is:
A book for Allegro 5?

[sidenote: I wrote things just to explain that i dont want to hear other things, except the book, as i have already have read a lot of other forums questions like this one]

www.anothergames.com

amarillion
Member #940
January 2001
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For there to be a book, somebody has to write it first. That is a lot of work. Not something that you do on a sunday afternoon.

--
Martijn van Iersel | My Blog | Sin & Cos | Tegel tilemap editor | TINS 2017

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

I personally don't think the wiki is like the manual. There's a lot more information there.

But yeah, there isn't a book. As amarillion said, someone would have to write one.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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And yet lots of people are making games without a book. So it's just you who thinks you need one. All of the information that would go in a book about Allegro you could compile yourself from the manual, the wiki, wikipedia, and the rest of the internet. I don't really understand why you're complaining about this, as if you expect the Allegro 5 devs to quit their dayjobs and write you a book. If you want a book either hire someone to write it, or do what I said and compile the information and write one yourself. You'll learn more than just reading a book that way too!

AleX-G Squadron
Member #13,593
October 2011
avatar

I understand. Thank you for the replies.
I could even write the book myself as an online pdf for free, but i would need great help from the forum, or someone else who is friends with others in this forum can make the book. I dont know but the community has to make the book, it is like an emblem. After all, who makes it can make great money. I will surely buy it.
So i mean that it is a real loss not to make the book.
Please anyone make it! :'(

@trent
BTW i have already made a game man, i mean with a book you create more great games or learn the basics at least.

www.anothergames.com

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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I don't think I can make a useful book for new users myself. I don't know what is most important to cover and whatnot. It seems teachers make the best books. So I'm out.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Complaining that "we" haven't written a book is as silly as complaining to your next door neighbor that he hasn't built a rocketship for you to fly around in. Just because "we" wrote a library on our on time for our own purposes doesn't mean we are obligated to provide any support to anybody in the form of a manual, a wiki, or a 1-800 number.

A book would be great, but what's the benefit to the person writing it? He already knows how to use the library. Sure he might make some money selling a few copies, but most people would probably just pirate the PDF and complain about how it doesn't cover the topics they want.

It's much easier for individuals to write wiki articles on topics that interest them. Sure it's not as coherent as a book written by a single expert author, but beggars cannot be choosers, eh?

AleX-G Squadron
Member #13,593
October 2011
avatar

The most important things are really easy.
I know them by heart even if i have one year i dont program with it anymore
I will sort them by chapters:

1)Installing Allegro
2)Creating your first program
3)Using text and fonts
4)Creating geometrical objects
5)Advanced objects
6)Input Keyboard
7)Input Mouse
8)Timer
9)Allegro for iPhone

There are a lot more, millions more! All this work has to built itself on a book!

Making a book makes a lot of sense, really. I can make the book myself man, it is not that i am really complaining. It is that i want to have all allegro programming basics in a book. It has to be made. After all, you have to share it with the world in a great way. For example, i see c++ in a lot of books, millions of videos (i have made my video tutorials myself), great community, all kind of jobs require it and lots more. Allegro has all of it. I know it. It has to be documented in a book.

www.anothergames.com

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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Wha? You could write each of those chapters in 1 page. ???

AleX-G Squadron
Member #13,593
October 2011
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I mean, these are the basics. At least this is how i think about it.
If you know these, you are ready to make great games or applications yourself.
I dont understand why the idea of the book is kinda rejected from allegro programmers for years. Any explanation please? Maybe i can help. Really.

@trent
Not 1 page man. I didnt mean to write it all in 1 page. I mean i know the basics.
(i think these are the basics)
I can write the book, but that is all i know.

www.anothergames.com

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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I can make the book myself man, it is not that i am really complaining.

Go write the book then!

AleX-G Squadron
Member #13,593
October 2011
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First of all, the only way of pirating the book is by buying it on pdf and posting it online, or buying a copy of the real book and scanning all pages. I am a php programmer and there is no way a cracker can get the book for free, unless he is php creator. So actually i can really make the book and post it after a year i guess?
;D, but really i am seriously going to make the book.
If anyone wants to help with something, pls contact me.

@math
I understand. But you could write the book better than me.
And really, it is a stormy welcome on this forum, after like a year.

www.anothergames.com

AMCerasoli
Member #11,955
May 2010
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I dont understand why the idea of the book is kinda rejected from allegro programmers for years.

The developers do their job. Writing a book in this kind of free project is not part of it. Suppose that I can't find a function in Allegro that I need, I can take 3 options;

  1. Make the function and submit it to the Allegro developers

  2. Make the function but already customized to your project, so no submitting

  3. Find another library if it's something that should be there...

Personally as a game developer I have no intention to write any addon or something I don't need and submit it to Allegro. And even if I need it I would find another library and just use that along with Allegro.

I'm concentrated in making games, and that takes a lot of time. Others are concentrated in making games but also support the library and other just support the library. Each of these takes time. And writing a book is not compatible with supporting + writing a book or making a game + writing a book. Maybe some tutorials, yhea it wold be good, but a book? What will be the next a movie?

If I manage to finish my game, and I see that it works I could try to make a library compatible with Allegro using enet and protobuf. But that's because I want to. That's how these projects works.

There are other libraries that give you a lot of info. A lot more than Allegro it's true. But never, will teach you how to make videogames, that's something that you'll need to learn by your own, not even a book.

Web development is a joke, compared to videogame development.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

And really, it is a stormy welcome on this forum, after like a year.

Your first post wasn't constructive. Saying "the manual sucks; somebody should write me a good book" isn't helpful.

Instead:

If you have concrete suggestions on exactly how and where the manual could be written better, then post them. Anybody who is offended by that is just being over-sensitive. (Note however, the reference manual will never be a substitute for a book that teaches game development.)

If you have encountered difficulties learning some high-level process and you don't want others to have to go through the same struggles, then you should document your findings yourself and create your own wiki article.

If you write a book and want people to help out, then post your chapters and ask for feedback.

AleX-G Squadron
Member #13,593
October 2011
avatar

Ok, i understood. Actually i understand the manual.
I even created an icon to my game, on both the game icon and on the task bar on windows. They both worked for all. But there was no guide for me to that logic, i had to logic it myself. You know that the icon is a stupid thing, but what if i dont understand it even from the manual? (as it firstly happened to me)

Web development is a joke compared to game programming, but what could happen if you put a game on your website? There is no jokes on programming. It would seem easy, but the more you work on a project the harder it gets. It is just your brain who lies to you and makes you think that web is easier. If it is easier why you choose the harder route?

@math
You mean after writting the chapters to post them here or just the titles so others can help?

www.anothergames.com

AMCerasoli
Member #11,955
May 2010
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If it is easier why you choose the harder route?

  1. Browsers currently doesn't have the potential to run real videogames.


  2. Then there is the "Compatible only with Chrome/Firefox" thing.


  3. All selling platforms have stuffs that you can download and play, that means that you should have something to upload and sell.


  4. I once downloaded a 3D game from the Chrome store and each time I wanted to play the game it was like I was downloading the whole again game each time. The game was simple and ran slower than Battlefield 2 on the same PC.


  5. If databases are currently too slow to store info, even when ran natively I don't want to imagine adding the connection speed and the rest of the factors.


  6. I want the freedom of having something that doesn't depend on any browser and its stupid standards that at the end are not so standard.

Basically that is why I chose the harder route? What about you?

AleX-G Squadron
Member #13,593
October 2011
avatar

My response will be simple:
Can your game run google?

I call a game programmer someone who has created Tomb Raider, "at least"
I call a web developer someone who has created a social network, "at least"

Basically, i have made the math and it turns out you need 2-3 years to make the social network and 5-10 years to create a Tomb Raider game. (talking on 8 hours each day learning basis)
I have made 3D terrains with XNA and i am not happy with it. Same with allegro.
The game i have made is total crap. At least for me. As for web development, i have already made the social network and this is why i am turning my back to web.
And btw, i saw your game...

www.anothergames.com

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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Where are you going with this?

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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I think that a book would be a big waste of time and money. I have always found the manual to be lacking though. It's more or less just a reference manual, which isn't a very practical guide to getting started fast, in particular for a beginner that doesn't know what they're doing yet. Nobody wants to read over a reference manual from cover to cover before they even really know what can be done. Hell, often you never read over the reference manual fully because often you're only interested in half of a piece of software's functionality anyway. Imagine having to figure out how to use Vim with only a reference manual. :o Besides, it can be hard to wrap your head around something new before you see it actually happening, so if you have to read the reference manual over to figure out how to use Allegro then you'll probably have to read it a second or third time to make full sense of things. In particular, the library is full of dependencies. You can't call X until you've called Y and created a Z by calling al_create_Z, etc. It can be easy to find yourself in a seemingly bottomless read. It's the same thing that makes people end up spending hours on Wikipedia or find themselves in the creepy parts of YouTube. Except those things are usually entertaining, at least. Reading reference documentation is usually pretty dry with a few exceptions; particularly when it isn't making sense or has you jumping all over the place with dependencies.

I think that adding a beginner's guide to the manual might be a good thing. I don't think we should go into detail about making games (e.g., the whole door teleporter thing). That's outside of the scope of the Allegro manual. However, giving a simple tutorial/walkthrough on the basics of the library, and where to go from there, and perhaps even working your way through a pong clone as an example might be a good way to get beginners using Allegro (and with fewer threads asking the very basic questions). It might also be a good place to document good and bad practices. I'm not opposed to working on such a thing myself, but I'm also not promising time or motivation to do it... The wiki is a good place to document intricacies or subjective topics, but I don't think people should depend on a community driven wiki to learn how to do basic things. I think that as a goal we should work to incorporate the most useful parts of the wiki into an organized guide for the manual. Something sequential that beginners can follow through and understand without having to jump all over the place.

  1. Introduction.

  2. Beginners Tutorial

  3. Dos and Donts?

  4. Reference Manual

Those are my 2 cents. :-/

AMCerasoli
Member #11,955
May 2010
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Can your game run google?

If my game can run Google? Google is a website... I don't get it... I'm making a game not a browser...

Quote:

I call a game programmer someone who has created Tomb Raider, "at least"

Ok I think that is too much... That's like: "I call someone engineer if he had created a rocket and he had sent it to the moon"...

Quote:

I call a web developer someone who has created a social network, "at least"

That's like: "I call someone web developer if he had no life and he had created a social network just because everyone is talking about Facebook and Facebook is a super engine which would take me 30 Years to develop because its technology comes from Mars, there is nothing in the web more difficult to program than Facebook. You know chatting, pictures and friends oh wow that's so cool and new"...

Quote:

And btw, i saw your game...

Which one? 8-)

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

bamccaig said:

I think that a book would be a big waste of time and money. I have always found the manual to be lacking though. It's more or less just a reference manual, which isn't a very practical guide to getting started fast, in particular for a beginner that doesn't know what they're doing yet

Summary:

  1. A book is a big waste of time.

  2. The Allegro reference manual is bad.

  3. The Allegro reference manual should be a book.

???



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