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Driving - Short Bus Asshole
bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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(although I still have to abide by the legal limit of 0.08)

Careful! I think the legal limit is 0.05 now (nearly half of what it used to be). :) Albeit, I generally refuse to drive when I've had anything to drink. Even if I might be OK, it's hard to be sure, and it's not worth the risk. Under certain circumstances I'll allow a single beer in a 1-2 hour span, or 2 beers in a 3-4 hour span and then drive (and for at least the last hour of which I haven't had any alcohol). Any more than that and I plan to spend the night, cab it, or walk; regardless of how long it's been since I had a drink (of course, after you've had 3 beers you don't really want to stop until you've had 8 ;)).

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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bamccaig said:

Careful! I think the legal limit is 0.05 now (nearly half of what it used to be).

Yeah! 0.05 is nearly half of 0.08! (more like 1/3 and a bit).

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"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
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Samuel Henderson
Member #3,757
August 2003
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bamccaig said:

Careful! I think the legal limit is 0.05 now (nearly half of what it used to be).

Well 0.05% to 0.08% is the 'warning range' where they can temporarily suspend your license and fine you $150 (but they can't actually charge you with impaired since you technically haven't broken the law). A B.A.C greater than 0.08% is still the criminal limit in Canada and testing over 0.08% will see you charged with impaired driving.

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Onewing: Because it is a pthread: a thread for me to pee on.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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bamccaig said:

after you've had 3 beers you don't really want to stop until you've had 8

"First the man takes a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes the man". Very bad.

Well 0.05% to 0.08% is the 'warning range' where they can temporarily suspend your license and fine you $150 (but they can't actually charge you with impaired since you technically haven't broken the law)

Well, if you haven't broken the law, what's to stop you from taking your license back and refusing to pay? Because a cop "said to do that"?

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Well, if you haven't broken the law, what's to stop you from taking your license back and refusing to pay? Because a cop "said to do that"?

Once your license is suspended, its the same thing as not having a license, with all of the concequences involved.

And generally not paying a fine gets you a court date.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Once your license is suspended, its the same thing as not having a license, with all of the concequences involved.And generally not paying a fine gets you a court date.

So lawyer up and make them give the license and money back. Or make it illegal to drive < 0.08. You pick.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Samuel Henderson
Member #3,757
August 2003
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Or make it illegal to drive < 0.08. You pick.

This is what I'd rather they do, but no, they want to have their warning thing.

=================================================
Paul whoknows: Why is this thread still open?
Onewing: Because it is a pthread: a thread for me to pee on.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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So lawyer up and make them give the license and money back.

You can try. But I doubt you'll get much leeway from most judges if there's definite proof that you were driving over the limits. What makes you think that they don't have the rules behind them?

Right now if you're 0.08 or over, you can have your license revoked on the spot in Alberta. You want the full rules, see here.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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Or make it illegal to drive < 0.08.

Most countries do make it illegal to drive lower than that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content

Though, there are some cities that have zero tolerance in place and that means you will get in trouble even if you have a sip of alcohol and drive. If you are pulled over and even read as having alcohol they will ticket you or take you to jail. Got to be careful though, some cops are crooked though, I had a friend that was telling me one night him and his brother were pulled over. His brother was arrested for DUI and the officers didn't want to bother with a tow truck because they would had to wait for it, so they told the brother to take it to their house (they were pulled over less than 10 feet from their house) and swore they wouldn't give him a hard time over having no license. As soon as he turned it off and got out they busted him for driving with no license and DUI. Scared them bad enough that they haven't even casually drank since.

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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If right turners are slowing down those who have to cross traffic, then someone's doing something wrong. I've never seen/had an issue with people going around cars waiting to go left or straight to turn right (as long as it's not an all way stop).

And that friend's brother sounds like an idiot. If the cops knew he was unlicensed, and he was drunk, then no matter what the asshole in the suit says, it's not a good idea to drive the car even 10 feet. Me personally, I would have told the cop to fuck off and call a tow truck, then report him for attempted entrapment.

If a cop tells me I can break a minor law (i.e., go ahead and do a u-turn to get back on an expressway after recognizing I exited to make the environment safer when getting pulled over), then that's fine, but it's not a good idea to believe them when they say they won't hassle you for no license/DWI when they just booked your friend for it.

My rule of thumb is to err on the side of being uncooperative with law enforcement, especially if I'm already getting the ticket/whatever or have nothing to get in trouble for. That means minimal talking/question answering, not consenting to searches, etc. I'm not going to help them do their job if it's not in my best interest. :P

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Or make it illegal to drive < 0.08. You pick.

Technically it is illegal to drive with a BAC over 0.05 (I guess like it's illegal to roll through a stop sign), but it's not criminal if it's still under 0.08. :) The law apparently says that you can't even appeal it if you're charged with it. :o

Slartibartfast
Member #8,789
June 2007
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As soon as he turned it off and got out they busted him for driving with no license and DUI.

For some traffic violations if you are instructed by a police officer to perform them then they are not only legal, but required. If a cop tells you to cross the intersection when the light is red you have to cross it. That makes me think that such a trick wouldn't stick here.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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For some traffic violations if you are instructed by a police officer to perform them then they are not only legal, but required. If a cop tells you to cross the intersection when the light is red you have to cross it. That makes me think that such a trick wouldn't stick here.

Yeah, but they told him to go ahead and park his brother's car in their drive. Soon as he did though the cops that told him to go ahead and park it arrested him for driving without a license and a DUI. His family attempted to sue the police, but I don't know what ever came of it.

BAF said:

My rule of thumb is to err on the side of being uncooperative with law enforcement, especially if I'm already getting the ticket/whatever or have nothing to get in trouble for. That means minimal talking/question answering, not consenting to searches, etc. I'm not going to help them do their job if it's not in my best interest. :P

Problem is that we are told, if you are at a light or on the road and a cop is there, you obey the cop and not the light or traffic signs. You are screwed either way as their are laws actually in place where you get in trouble if you disobey an officer. It is no wonder some get power hungry.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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For some traffic violations if you are instructed by a police officer to perform them then they are not only legal, but required. If a cop tells you to cross the intersection when the light is red you have to cross it. That makes me think that such a trick wouldn't stick here.

They already caught him. The trick was just to get him to drive back home (all 10 feet). Here, you can be charged with intent to drive drunk even if you're just sitting in your car, on your own driveway, with the ignition off. Or so I've been told.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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In NY state, DWI only requires intent to drive. Simply being in the car (in any seat) with the keys in your possession counts as intent. You can be sitting in your car listening to the radio, waiting for a ride (doing the responsible thing) and still get a DWI.

Problem is that we are told, if you are at a light or on the road and a cop is there, you obey the cop and not the light or traffic signs.

The law says that a person directing traffic (DOT, police, firefighter, etc) supersedes any existing traffic control devices. The law doesn't say a cop can force you to break the law. A police officer has no right to break the law or order anyone else to do so. IANAL, but I would be fully confident in refusing to obey the cop in such a situation. If they're stupid enough to try and ticket and arrest you for refusing to break the law, then it will get laughed out of court. If they brutalize you, then you can cash in later.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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BAF said:

The law says that a person directing traffic (DOT, police, firefighter, etc) supersedes any existing traffic control devices. The law doesn't say a cop can force you to break the law. A police officer has no right to break the law or order anyone else to do so. IANAL, but I would be fully confident in refusing to obey the cop in such a situation. If they're stupid enough to try and ticket and arrest you for refusing to break the law, then it will get laughed out of court. If they brutalize you, then you can cash in later.

On the contrary, if a officer tells you to do something and you refuse, they have a catch all they can arrest you for "Obstruction of a law enforcement officer". This is a catch that covers anything that the officer can claim you were interfering with any part of their job. This is one reason they added dash cams to cars, for the rights of the people being pulled over and for the safety of the police officers if any on tries to kill them while on the job. People don't like to admit it, but police abusing their power is more common than people want to think about.

Can't debate after this post (hit 5 limit post cap).

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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That doesn't change the fact that they cannot legally force you to break the law. What do you suppose would happen in court when the police presented their case against an unlicensed person who refused to move a car, while drunk, under instruction of the police? Hint: it wouldn't make it anywhere near court before it was thrown out.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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After you've done a day's training on a 125cc, this is the next exam in the uk and it's the equivalent of your 'parking lot' test. Do it on a 500cc and you can ride any bike on passing the next test, do it on a 125 and you have to stay on a 125 for 2 years.

video

Neil.
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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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IIRC, if a cop tells you to do something, you're required to do it even if it seems to break the law. For instance, if he's directing traffic at a stop light, you're supposed to do what he says no matter what the light shows. Of course there are limits to this, no B.J.s, no payments of cash, etc.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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IIRC, if a cop tells you to do something, you're required to do it even if it seems to break the law. For instance, if he's directing traffic at a stop light, you're supposed to do what he says no matter what the light shows.

That's already been covered. It's because a traffic cop takes precedence over any lights or signs. Not because police can order you to do anything even if its illegal.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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I'm 47 and still don't have a driver's license or a car. :)

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james_lohr
Member #1,947
February 2002

After another week driving around the US, I'm now convinced that the reason why you guys are such bad drivers compared to UK drivers is because of your road systems. Roundabouts are just so far superior to stop-signs. Though you do need to be taught to use roundabouts properly. In the UK, learning to use roundabouts properly is at least 50% of learning to drive - I would imagine that building roundabouts in the US would cause mayhem because US citizens would have no clue of how to use them properly.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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I have driven on roundabouts here in the USA without experiencing this mayhem that you speak of.

MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
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Those things have been popping up around here, and I haven't had any issues with them, though they are in isolated areas.

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