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[in theory] Leaving it all behind...
verthex
Member #11,340
September 2009
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Trezker said:

The earth moves all the time:
1600 km/hr in the rotation at the equator.
107,000 km/hr around the sun.
70,000 km/hr around the center of the galaxy.

The earth does slow in all of its motions because of quantum effects that generate "friction" between matter and space (basically enough to generate heat equivalent to heating a cup fo coffee constantly, or maybe once a year, can't remember the exact details of the calculations). I read this somewhere in a book, maybe Hawkings, definitely modern cosmology written for the masses. Its related to frame dragging in G.R.

_Kronk_
Member #12,347
November 2010

Dennis said:

Just to nitpick, C0 would leave the most options as both A0 and B0 could be future scenarios developed from C0.

This is true. What I meant was there are more immediate options; i.e. you just pick up and go.

Quote:

Yes, fishing would sound like the easiest way to get food though I'd prefer if it was away from humans so villages no matter how remote would not be an option for me. Still a nice idea. (Living together with other humans in a different country would also require learning their language and there is no guarantee they would even accept you as a member of their community.)

少し 話します。 学校 に 日本語 を 勉強します。
(I've been wanting to show off for a while now... I can't guarantee anything on my grammar though.)

That said, I have read many times that Japanese people can be reluctant to include foreigners(外人) in anything.

A more realistic version of this whole idea would be to just go out into the middle of nowhere, find a nice plot of land that no one is (apparently) using, and start a farm or something. It's easier to grow plants than it is to hunt all day. Of course you'd need a source of food until the plants were mature, but from that point on it would be more about storing food for winter and building a shelter than anything else.

Also known as situation D0: the squater farm.

--------------------------------------------------
"If only our dreams were fires to ignite, then we could let the whole world burn" -Emery

My blog: http://joshuadover.tumblr.com

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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I'd buy an AWP & go sniping noobs. IRL

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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If you're going to leave it all behind, you have to use bows and arrows or spears that you made from the materials at hand.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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If you're going to leave it all behind, you have to use bows and arrows or spears that you made from the materials at hand.

I already said that. 8-)

KeithS
Member #11,950
May 2010

Dennis;

I actually did it, almost exactly as described in the opening paragraphs of your post, 17 years ago. It has been interesting, can't complain.

* * * * * * * * * * *

My Noobish Blog

axilmar
Member #1,204
April 2001

One great option for solitude is go live in a monastery. Your every tasks would be agriculture and maintaining the monastery, and you can also choose monasteries that don't have any occupants at the current time.

Some of these monasteries are in Greece. They are pretty secluded.

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
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LennyLen said:

But yeah, I'd basically sit in the middle of nowhere for a few days, fasting and tripping and thinking about whatever occurred to me at the time.

Eventually I decided I'd been on the road long enough and moved back to the city and got a job.

Thanks for sharing that story. I would not take any drugs with me in my case though as tripping isn't one of my goals. I wonder though if it wouldn't all become quite boring soon without much stimulation for the mind (in whatever form of entertainment). If the goal is long term self sustainment in the wilderness without going back to a normal life, drugs, alcohol and whatnot would not be an option because it's probably impossible to create these things yourself without the required knowledge about the necessary plants and where to find them (and you probably also need tools for that which can't be easily crafted from wood and rocks).

Derezo said:

Living off the land is quite difficult.

It is also illegal pretty much everywhere in the world because the land already belongs to someone and here in Germany even if you own some land it would still be illegal to hunt animals on it unless you are a licensed hunter (and for that you'd have to undergo several years of training and even then you would not be allowed to hunt with crude weapons like spears and bows because that would count as animal cruelty (you're supposed to kill them as quick and painless as possible and that's only possible with modern weapons)).

It is also illegal to chop down a tree (even breaking off a branch or cutting of some skin is). Walking around with a knife: also illegal for most knife types which could count as a weapon.

The only legal thing would be to eat worms, insects, plants and fruits (still technically illegal because as all land already belongs to someone, eating their plants and insects would be stealing). Would have to eat them raw though because making fire is also illegal unless it is a small campfire and you make it on your own land and while taking safety precautions.

The first thing I would do is come back here and read the original post to see if Dennis said anything interesting. :(

It's difficult to write interesting stuff when slowly but steadily your interest in everything is fading away.

bamccaig said:

It's a lovely fantasy, but I don't think it's very feasible of a goal for somebody that doesn't already have the skills needed.

Yes, preparations are definitely necessary. Thanks for the detailed description of your plan, many good pointers in there.

A game representation of if you could leave it all behind.

Yeah, like I already wrote in the opening post, all this stuff would make a great setting for a game.

_Kronk_ said:

A more realistic version of this whole idea would be to just go out into the middle of nowhere, find a nice plot of land that no one is (apparently) using, and start a farm or something. It's easier to grow plants than it is to hunt all day.

I'm not so sure about that. From what I hear, being a farmer is pretty much a full time job with very long hours and little to no freetime. Fishing on the other hand is always depicted as something that basically handles itself, you just need to be quiet and patient. ^^

If you're going to leave it all behind, you have to use bows and arrows or spears that you made from the materials at hand.

I completely agree but for the first few weeks/months while you learn/teach yourself all that stuff about making tools from rocks/wood/plants/etc. it would be ok to bring some tools from civilization with you so you won't fail right away. You'd have to bring sturdy long lasting clothes too because it's quite unrealistic to expect being able to craft clothes right away (or ever). If you're lucky you die from poison or some sickness before your initial clothes start to fall apart so you would not even run into the situation where you'd be forced to make your own.

KeithS said:

I actually did it, almost exactly as described in the opening paragraphs of your post, 17 years ago. It has been interesting, can't complain.

Well... seems you failed though because you're here. :\
What equipment did you take with you when you left? Where did you go? What did you eat? How many years have you spent in the wilderness and why did you come back?

axilmar said:

One great option for solitude is go live in a monastery.

I could not fake interest in any religion sufficiently well enough to be able to live in a monastery. I would also feel bad for pretending to the others that I'm one of them.

...

Meanwhile, I looked at some backpacks, did some reading about edible plants and insects (all of which should be cooked or fried and never be eaten raw for health reasons).
I'm not going to rush things and will start with something easy: take a day off of the internet and not use any electronic devices, so next Monday I'll start the day staring blankly out of the window until I'm bored enough to do something else

weapon_S
Member #7,859
October 2006
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I've met a man who is considered a hermit here. He has a very small piece of land, lives in a shed in somebody's back-yard, and lives of gifts for the rest. He is doing it in a religious (christian) context. Don't know whether you'd consider a monastery an option.
This also is a small fantasy of mine. Actually finding some wilderness would be the first challenge. I think I'd acquire a water filter, and a military type sleeping-bag. The only way I know of for getting food is: go tho shop. And of course there's some not so exotic fruit I would recognise. Might be handy to be able to identify edible mushrooms (so study first).
The B0 scenario is interesting. But only given you couldn't rely on family or friends either. I'd probably die, or resort to petty crimes and get caught ;P Or just become the average hobo. -_-

LennyLen said:

Some of those experiences were quite surreal.

That's LSD for ya. >_>

Elias
Member #358
May 2000

Where do I obtain a year's worth of LSD?

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_Kronk_
Member #12,347
November 2010

Dennis said:

here in Germany even if you own some land it would still be illegal to hunt animals on it unless you are a licensed hunter (and for that you'd have to undergo several years of training and even then you would not be allowed to hunt with crude weapons like spears and bows because that would count as animal cruelty (you're supposed to kill them as quick and painless as possible and that's only possible with modern weapons)).
It is also illegal to chop down a tree (even breaking off a branch or cutting of some skin is). Walking around with a knife: also illegal for most knife types which could count as a weapon.

And you still live there ???

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"If only our dreams were fires to ignite, then we could let the whole world burn" -Emery

My blog: http://joshuadover.tumblr.com

KeithS
Member #11,950
May 2010

No, my aim was not to live in the wilderness or become a neo-hunter/gatherer of sorts. My apologies if your "hypothesis" was really that specific, which would make my impulsive emigration non-applicable. I was a bit tired when I first read your post, and I mistook it as accepting alternate cases of a complete and sudden break in trajectory.

Notwithstanding, however, I did live for six months in the cloud forests on the western slopes of the Andes, in a wooden cabin on stilts next to a river, in a completely out of the way "settlement" (if it could even be referred to as that, then) called Mindo. That was when I first moved away from England. It is not like it was, anymore.

To tell you the truth, that time was enough to recollect my thoughts after the gloomy despondency that had clouded into my mind in England. I knew which way things were going there. It had not been good, but it WAS beginning to look a little better for the future. Still, I had had enough already. So I left, just like that, and arrived in Ecuador with a little over 60 dollars of equivalent currency, after all the expenditures of the trip. Things were not any easier for a good while, but I am still in Ecuador, and I am glad I did it.

So yes, getting away from everything you once knew has its merits. Believe me, a cultural change is as big a challenge as what you propose. I am not really going into any details; it is your thread, and my story has not really got a place on it. Suffice to say the following, whatever you are thinking of or considering: Perhaps it is better to get this far knowing what you would have been, rather than to exist in a sort of limbo wondering what you might have been. In the end, however, you cannot get away from yourself.

And that has already been too many words from me.

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My Noobish Blog

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
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KeithS said:

And that has already been too many words from me.

Nah, thanks a lot for sharing your story. :)

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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Dennis said:

It is also illegal pretty much everywhere in the world

While actions like cutting down trees are also illegal here in Canada (AFAIK, eating bugs/wild vegetation/animals is not), it would easily overlooked. Here we have massive stretches of land that are unoccupied. We are the second largest land mass, but we're not even in the top 200 for population density. I know of many places I could camp without being bothered.

Aside from that, Canada also has a "free man of the land" provision allowed by some specific wording in our constitution. It is a special classification of individual that allows them to live off the land and disregard a wide array of legislation -- although they are not allowed to hold jobs or participate in any social welfare programs. They have their own communities. :o

[edit]
It's been a long time since I looked at that free man of the land stuff. It was a very interesting thing to me when I found it years ago, but now it seems like a sort of cult. Not that I don't agree with a great deal of what they say and what they stand for, but some of that CBC stuff they have on their homepage is pretty nuts.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

William Labbett
Member #4,486
March 2004
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I've finished my program that assessed many scenarios and the first successful run came up with this :

Buy a gorilla outfit and find a troop of gorillas to join.

Hope that helps :)

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Buy a gorilla outfit and find a troop of gorillas to join.

But then you'd have to eat leaves and bamboo, and engage in gorilla warfare!

video

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
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Since the thread seems to be going down the toilet now it's credit time: credits go to everyone who posted at least one useful on topic comment with practical tip/theoretical input on the matter. No cookies for trolls and off topic comments.

append: Forgot to give credit to Tomasu.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Derezo said:

While actions like cutting down trees are also illegal here in Canada

Uh, bullshit. You can cut down whatever you like on your own property, so long as you haven't agreed to some stupid stuff with your community association or something. Or your city has some retarded bylaws. But if you have an acreage or farm? do as you please.

Dennis said:

append: Forgot to give credit to Tomasu.

No prob :)

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"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

AMCerasoli
Member #11,955
May 2010
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HA! take that Matthew! for being trolling your own forum! ;D:-*

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Elias
Member #358
May 2000

I think he just forgot a few people when handing out cookies.

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"Either help out or stop whining" - Evert

james_lohr
Member #1,947
February 2002

I think you're romanticising the idea. In practice, spending most of every day gathering food is not fun.

Dennis said:

you do not seek to do something as simple as just switching careers or trying a new hobby

Changing your career and trying new hobbies sounds a lot less "simple" than becoming a bum.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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In practice, spending most of every day gathering food is not fun.

I've read that hunter/gatherers spend less time doing that than industrialized people spend on the job. OTOH, a drought can make 100% search time insufficient. That's why grain farming caught on, to put aside some reserves.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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Uh, bullshit. You can cut down whatever you like on your own property

Since the scenario involves selling off everything you own, it can be safely assumed that it isn't your own property. :P

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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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gnolam said:

Since the scenario involves selling off everything you own, it can be safely assumed that it isn't your own property.

You could have permission. Also I think there are cases where you can just sit on some land for a while, and it becomes yours :o

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

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