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Why is Java so huge
Felix-The-Ghost
Member #9,729
April 2008
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I was installing Netbeans Java SE and it told me I needed the JDK, which also installed Oracle's JavaFX...

A comparison of this installation and my C++ stuff:

Netbeans/Code::Blocks -- ~240MB/85MB
Java crap/MinGw (With A4 files) -- ~403MB + 90MB/88MB

Total: ~733MB vs. ~173MB

Is this normal? Why is it so much larger? I'm not too familiar with Java. I just know it's interpreted whereas C++ is compiled. Nevermind. I don't have any ideas as to why that is :-/

Update: Netbeans installs ssslllllloooooowwwwwlllllllyyyyyyy.

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verthex
Member #11,340
September 2009
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I used Jcreator LE. Netbeans is a piece of shit and unless you need it for highlighting parts of your code, its mostly useless and uses too much ram.

weapon_S
Member #7,859
October 2006
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If you're using old hardware, you'll learn to hate Java. Also, on Windows all the auto-update/background program crap, and registry fuzz should infuriate a sane human. If you're also using a dial-up connection, you'll learn to hate the updater even more.
This is how I remember the Java runtime. >_>

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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weapon_S said:

Also, on Windows all the auto-update/background program crap

Yes, every 5 minutes Java is ready to be updated to a bigger and slower version. >:(

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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Matt win ^^

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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You are comparing essentially a compiler (mingw) and possibly a few basic libraries with an entire framework library covering everything from gui components to xml handling, including a compiler, debugger and various other tools. Perhaps you should list every class in the JAVA JDK then find everything to match in a C++ library (including full inheritance/interfaces/etc) then compare sizes.

Neil.
MAME Cabinet Blog / AXL LIBRARY (a games framework) / AXL Documentation and Tutorial

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type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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It just doesn't matter these days.. Traffic cheap ram cheap, storage cheap. Budget CPU performance by far exceeds day-to-day needs.

.. who cares.. ?

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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type568 said:

who cares

Java applications even slow down super computers. :P

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Java applications even slow down super computers.

If nonnus29 is lurking, he's blowing a gasket right about now.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
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Java's marketing is so good that people that should know better will claim that its performance is on par with native code. ::)

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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What torhu said +10 ^^

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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Java applications even slow down super computers. :P

Nobody in his right mind would use Java on a supercomputer, so that's a non-issue. ;)

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Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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When you are creating truly enterprise level systems you need the backing of some beefy application servers that manage your session replication/sticky sessions, load balancing, thread/jdbc pools, etc. For that, this is where java stands out due to products such as Weblogic. Not to mention the use of frameworks such as Hibernate, Spring, etc.

Apologies if my two posts sound like I'm a Java fanboy :-[

Neil.
MAME Cabinet Blog / AXL LIBRARY (a games framework) / AXL Documentation and Tutorial

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james_lohr
Member #1,947
February 2002

gnolam said:

Nobody in his right mind would use Java on a supercomputer

*cough*

kenmasters1976
Member #8,794
July 2007

I remember when I thought Java was great, but having an old machine I now avoid anything written in Java at all costs.

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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*cough*

Just because MPI bindings exist for a language doesn't mean it's a good idea to use it.

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Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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My comment was referring to desktop (GUI) applications. I don't care what benchmarks say... every Java application I run maxes out memory and slows the computer down to a frozen state. It's like an instant throwback to 1985. :P

I don't really care about Java for web applications because they tend to just be for stuffy corporate things that I never have to use.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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The problem is moreso Windows than Java. :P It performs much better in GNU+Linux. :D It's no different than the .NET framework. Installing that is a few hundred megabytes too, IIRC, depending on how much of it you install. The size of C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET on this workstation is 1009 MiB (almost a GiB). The fact that Microsoft's platform runs faster on their own OSes shouldn't surprise anyone for any number of reasons. I think that Java is more mature and more customizable though. Google makes extensive use of Java. You just gotta know what you're doing, I guess... :)

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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But you can't even initiate a simple ping request to a remote host with Java. How can you call a static typed language mature if you can't ping with it? :-\

james_lohr
Member #1,947
February 2002

gnolam said:

Just because MPI bindings exist for a language doesn't mean it's a good idea to use it.

I wasn't even aware that this existed. Java was the language taught at our University, but we were still (quite rightly) forced to use plain C for our MPI projects.

I was actually referring to the fact that it's fairly common in industry to chuck Java solutions onto "supercomputers". Though to be fair I'm just talking about powerful servers (32/64-core 3Ghz machines is what we have where I work). Still pretty "Super" to the likes of you and I, but nothing like the massively parallel machines you would hope to run an MPI application on.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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type568 said:

But you can't even initiate a simple ping request to a remote host with Java. How can you call a static typed language mature if you can't ping with it? :-\

A 5 second Google search suggests that java.net.InetAddress.isReachable(int) sends a ping request and returns true if successful.

???

Felix-The-Ghost
Member #9,729
April 2008
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every Java application I run maxes out memory

Minecraft does that to me. I can barely run it on this older computer and with any computer it uses like 600MB of memory. I have to play on low quality graphics cause turning on "high quality" crashes the game from lack of available memory. (Brand new Windows 7 64bit)

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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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  1. That doesn't necessarily mean that Java is the problem.

    1. It could be Notch's code quality. A lot of people believe the code must be really bad for the bugs seen over its lifetime.

    2. It could be that Minecraft legitimately requires a lot of memory to run [on a garbage collected OO platform].

    3. It could be Windows 7 itself. It's not exactly a light-weight OS.

      • Just because your computer was sold with Windows 7 doesn't mean it was intended to run Windows 7 well. Most retail PC bundles sold are junk.

CursedTyrant
Member #7,080
April 2006
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I think it's mostly Notch's code quality. There was a time when Minecraft ran horribly slow for me on an AMD Phenom II X6 3.1 Ghz (something over 3.0, anyway), 8 GBs of DDR3 RAM and a GeForce 560 TI with 1GB of VRAM. It's not exactly a slow computer.

To be fair, Minecraft runs perfectly fine now.

Quick tip (in case somebody doesn't know that yet): Installing a 64-bit version of JRE on a 64-bit system will help Minecraft run smoother.

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Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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A quick scan shows that BOOST comprises 37,000 files and 400MB of data. Now which is a bloated library. Stick that up your C++ arse Felix ;)

Neil.
MAME Cabinet Blog / AXL LIBRARY (a games framework) / AXL Documentation and Tutorial

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