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skyrim
Sirocco
Member #88
April 2000
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The Saboteur is actually a quite competent GTA-alike. I might even go so far as to say it's Pandemic's finest game.

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james_lohr
Member #1,947
February 2002

Back on topic, having now played Skyrim for a good few hours I'm actually extremely impressed.

Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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Back on topic, having now played Skyrim for a good few hours I'm actually extremely impressed.

Yeah, I'm liking it a LOT. Together with daggerfall the best elder scrolls game (daggerfall is good in a very different way though).

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Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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It's just the random moralization that bothered me.

All the focus is placed on human's perceived fears, not an objective valuation of potential harm or suffering. You take that and mix in a lot of profit-driven suggestion, and out pops the Human Book of Morality.

Just the way it is.

Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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Just the way it is.

Certainly. But you can apply meta-though to try and understand what makes you think the way you do, and strive to overcome your biases and unsubstantiated conclusions. Not just shrug your shoulders and say "just the way it is".

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Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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We have a double standard in our country. We complain if our kids play violent games before they are 13 and then want them to join the military at 18 where they are trained to be killers. Apparently we don't want them to learn about violence until they join the military. Violence is on television, if you watch the news you see that there is violence in schools due to bullying, and violence to keep our countries peace. We started playing games when we were 6 or 7 years old and the violence isn't the issue, it is the graphic nature that is the issue. Violence is everywhere, even the Mario Bros game on NES had violence (jumping on enemies, firing fireballs at enemies (which at the time was carried on by parents stating it encouraged children to play with fire). Even old Atari games had violence in the games; Circus Atari had it so if you missed your character it splattered on the ground, Space Wars had you fighting a second player to blow them up. Everyone says the violence is the reason they shouldn't play, and the true issue is the graphic nature of the game not the violence.

That is the thing I find funny. Everyone jumping my case probably have played games since they were 6 or 7 and didn't care about the violence then, but now are up in arms about someone else playing violent games at 6.

On Topic
Skyrim looks great, but as for the bugs. Every game has some sort of bug or glitch after shipping. They will get around to fixing it.

The long intro....mostly for showing off the graphics. Oblivion had a long intro, only it threw you into a long intro mission instead of long intro sequence.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
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Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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Certainly. But you can apply meta-though to try and understand what makes you think the way you do, and strive to overcome your biases and unsubstantiated conclusions. Not just shrug your shoulders and say "just the way it is".

I'm not worried about myself, it's people that control this place. Mob mentality runs the world.

Onewing
Member #6,152
August 2005
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I finally got it, but have only had a few hours to play. The first few things that bother me:

  • Intro screen is an image of a 3D rendered dragon-thingy with smoke and music. That's it? No Patrick Stewart narrated cinematic. Disappointing...


  • I don't like navigating through the menu system, seems clunky and not very user friendly, especially the Perks screen.


  • I WISH they'd get rid of "favorites" lists and opt for user input sequences (I'm on xbox360 btw). Like, right bumper (start sequence), X, Y, X, right bumper (end sequence), character switches to sword and fireball. Right bumper, X, A, B, B, right bumper, character switches to two-handed great sword. I already have more than two setups, which is all the favorite menu can do for me before I have to actually open the favorites list, causing a break in the action.

These things aside, I am enjoying the game. It's just accompanied with some ::)

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Slartibartfast
Member #8,789
June 2007
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james_lohr
Member #1,947
February 2002

My major gripes are:

- All GUIs are total shite. They've put zero effort into everything from the options menu through to shops, inventory etc.

- There don't seem to be mounts in the game.

- The default controls are dreadful.

Though the core game is far better than I was expecting, particularly the speech.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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There are mounts -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp6OecgFvcQ Don't know if they made anything else have the ability to ride it. Rumor flying around the net is that you ride a dragon, but I don't think this is realistic as they couldn't make a good interface so dragon riding would be most likely terrible and clunky too (and limited by the sandbox size).

Gameplay Video, shows mounting and riding -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NhevGw_qBw&feature=related

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
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Elias
Member #358
May 2000

There don't seem to be mounts in the game.

I was able to steal a few horses. Can't fight while mounted though so compared to fast travel they seem somewhat useless.

And yes, an update which fixes all the keyboard assignment bugs and adds a better UI (and makes the whole intro skippable, I still don't get why they did this horrible intro in the first place) would have changed my initial opinion of the game a lot.

As for the core game, I'd like if each quests had a fixed level I think. Then if a quest is marked as level 10 I'd know I can only do it at level 5 if I use all the tricks I have and have stocked up on potions and so on. But if I do it at level 15 it will be easy and I can just run through.

The way it actually seems to work though is that all opponents always have my own level - at least so far I could do each quest after a few tries and this would be an explanation how that can be. It would mean I'll likely not encounter any easy quests but also will be able to kill anyone.

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OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
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Rumor flying around the net is that you ride a dragon, but I don't think this is realistic as they couldn't make a good interface so dragon riding would be most likely terrible and clunky too (and limited by the sandbox size).

I'd doubt that. If Skyrim uses same system as Oblivion does, i.e. upon entering the town new map is loaded, then flying for the player is disabled by design.

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Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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Well I said I didn't believe it. Like I said looking at how the UI is and how clunky it is. If they had done it the dragons would most likely gallop. :)

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Actually, today I played for a bit and I'm actually really impressed with just how much backstory and whatnot there is. The NPCs are actually pretty impressive. :) I rather approve. The only thing I think is lame is how certain NPCs are invincible.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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Got it. Will be December or later before I play it though.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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bamccaig said:

The only thing I think is lame is how certain NPCs are invincible.

To clarify, I think it's lame how the NPCs just suddenly get back up after going down. It would be better if they stayed down "wounded" and would magically be back after you leave and return, complaining of injuries and maybe being sour towards you for a day, etc. That is, of course, only if they can't be killed off.

GameCreator
Member #2,541
July 2002
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I'm not sure how that works. My follower can take on a dragon 1 on 1 and go down for a while then get back up again, repeatedly. But in a dungeon, a few lower level creatures can kill her permanently. And I've killed NPCs too so I don't know what the rule is.

Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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My follower can take on a dragon 1 on 1 and go down for a while then get back up again, repeatedly. But in a dungeon, a few lower level creatures can kill her permanently

I'm pretty sure your follower can only die if you kill her, or she dies from falling, drowning etc. Maybe you hit her with a spell? ???

Almost all NPC's are killable - those that aren't are vital to the main story line (iirc).

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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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I'm not sure how that works. My follower can take on a dragon 1 on 1 and go down for a while then get back up again, repeatedly. But in a dungeon, a few lower level creatures can kill her permanently. And I've killed NPCs too so I don't know what the rule is.

These are the rules that I have inferred:

  • You can't kill NPCs that have primary roles in primary quests (or, I assume, future primary quests). I don't know if it applies also to side quests, but I don't see why it should.

  • You can't kill shopkeepers, presumably because if you could then you could kill all shopkeepers in the game and cripple your ability to trade. Still, I think that should be your right. ;D

  • You can't kill children, which is understandable, since I'm amazed that there are even children in the game at all. Children don't even seem to take damage. The others do seem to take damage and I think can all go down as if you killed them, but they pop back up after a few seconds. IIRC, the children run away and yell for help (thus far they're all also unarmed) and they never seem affected by attacks.

From what I can tell, once a mortal NPC is actually killed it remains dead forever. At least, even hours (maybe days) after completing a quest, returning to the area still revealed corpses laying around from the people I had slayed. I doubt that the corpses are indefinite, but I think you do have to go out of your way before they are destroyed.

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
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bamccaig: that was nice in Fallout 1 and 2; you could kill anything and anybody, including children (only in second and only in some versions). Though killing children impacted your karma and earned you childkiller perk. Who gives a damn about shopkeepers? Kill them and loot the shop, although most of the games don't tend to have shop items in the inventory of a shopkeeper.

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Dario ff
Member #10,065
August 2008
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OICW said:

you could kill anything and anybody, including children (only in second and only in some versions). Though killing children impacted your karma and earned you childkiller perk.

Related:

video

:o

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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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My experiences with Skyrim are very up and down. :-/ Now I can't seem to make any money, nor find any enemies of sufficiently low health to level up with. I don't get it... I don't have enough materials for crafting either and can't find enough to make it worthwhile. The game seems completely unbalanced. Even just animals that I encounter in the wild can kill me pretty easily unless I take advantage of their stupid AI and hide on a rock, but that's if I'm lucky enough to find one. And then there's the horse. I finally broke down and bought it (for 1000 gold) thinking it would save me a lot of time traveling, but it doesn't seem to move much faster than on foot, and even if it can all of the predatory animals all attack it! You can't defend yourself on the horse so you get off the horse and they all just go after your damn horse instead of fighting you! It's retarded. My horse was killed not long after I bought it! And 1000 gold is proving difficult to come by so that was not cheap. Fortunately, I reloaded a quick save, but I really wish I didn't have to. I've been trying to avoid save whoring, but it seems necessary in Skyrim...

>:(>:(>:(

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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Sounds like my Skyrim is going to collect dust for a long time before I actually play it.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

james_lohr
Member #1,947
February 2002

bamccaig said:

nor find any enemies of sufficiently low health to level up with.

I'm having the opposite problem. I'm yet to find a single difficult encounter. I'm pretty far through the main quest-line (I've already defeated the "main" enemy dragon, even if it was only to make him flee), and yet I'm still only level 12, I'm using the second weapon I've ever had, and only have 3 spells. Every encounter feels trivial because I can just strafe around hitting flanks to avoid damage, or kite, heal, kite some more, heal etc.

I immediately dismissed my "housekarl" helper because she was making easy fights even easier.

I've tried turning up the difficulty, and all this does is making everything slightly more tedious whilst still being possible.

I really don't like the fact that there are no impossible encounters. I have absolutely no desire to just adventure and level because it feels totally unnecessary.

The game is missing what I consider vital to every RPG, which is what I call the dragon encounter. I know this sounds ridiculous considering that Skyrim has the most impressive dragon fights of any game by a mile, but let me explain: the dragon encounter is where, early in the game, you encounter a foe that hands your arse to you on a plate. There is no defeating it. No chance. You have to come back later when you are stronger.

There is no such thing in Skyrim. Those giants in the comic? I sought them out hoping the would be it. Trivial: I killed both of them while I was level 6 using my starting weapon and spells. Sure, they one-shot me, but it's still easy to kite them and hit them without them hitting back.

It's such a shame, because the game is wonderful in so many ways but the bare basics of what makes an RPG fun (progression!) is as lazy as the GUI.

[edit]

Oh, and that Gamasutra article is shit. Reading it made me think that he played the game for 5 minutes and then decided to winge about his findings. Sure, the GUI is awful, but it doesn't play a big part in the game and can be forgiven. The performance issues don't exist for me - the game as run flawlessly on my machine, and the remaining issues he discusses are minor.

The real issue is as I've said: they've ignored the basics of how to make an RPG. I should most certainly not feel the need to avoid progressing my characters skills and abilities because I'm worried about making the already trivial encounters even easier.



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