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Credits go to 23yrold3yrold, Arthur Kalliokoski, Audric, blargmob, gnolam, Jonatan Hedborg, l j, MiquelFire, Neil Black, Neil Walker, OnlineCop, Trezker, verthex, weapon_S, William Labbett, and Yodhe23 for helping out!
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Backwards RPG
Onewing
Member #6,152
August 2005
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For clarity, I'm currently thinking in terms of classic RPG style, namely JRPGs.

So I had this random idea where you start at the end and progress to the beginning of the game. You literally start by taking on the Boss of the game. But, you also start overpowered and can take him down relatively easy, even though the battle still feels epic.

Then, you go through the final level, losing experience. Then, you de-level and have to choose what abilities/powers to give up.

Furthermore, failing objectives in missions can have their consequences. For example, in the forward-progression of the dungeon, you found an uber sword in a treasure chest. Well, in the backward progression style, you have to put that uber sword in the treasure chest. Exiting the dungeon without doing this will cost you experience points (of which you are warned about). The uber sword is going to be taken from you, regardless of whether you complete the objective or not.

I know, it's a silly idea, but maybe it could work. There's been a few films/tv shows (Seinfeild) that have managed to do this in a way that makes sense, so surely it can be done in a game...

I did a quick search and found someone else considering this idea, although it seems like you are de-leveling in a forward progression style:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/8661-Extra-Punctuation-What-if-We-Leveled-Backwards

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blargmob
Member #8,356
February 2007
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Sounds a little wonky to me :-/

What incentive does the user have to continue playing if their character is effectively becoming worse?

It seems like the reward for completing the challenge is that you lose stats >:(

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William Labbett
Member #4,486
March 2004
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What about if all the character walk backwards too ?

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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The Curious Case of Benjamin Mash The Attack Button?

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Onewing
Member #6,152
August 2005
avatar

Yep, it IS wonky, but the ultimate goal is de-level slower than the enemy de-levels, just like in a regular RPG you would want to level up faster than the enemy levels up.

But yes, the challenge is getting the reward to make sense. For example, in the Seinfeild example I mentioned above, story details revealed later in the show (earlier in the timeline) help make sense to elements that happened earlier. If it could reward you in that way that'd be neat.

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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A couple of weeks ago, my sig was "If you watch NASA backwards, it's about a space agency that has no spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on moon."

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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Could be fun if it's a pretty short game, and the story has some nice "whoa"-moments.

l j
Member #10,584
January 2009
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I guess this could work.

Perhaps a story where the protagonist is some evil greedy guy who cursed himself would work? It would make sense that he would have to make some sacrifices in order to free himself.

Trezker
Member #1,739
December 2001
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You'd have to avoid fighting as much as possible since usually in an RPG you get exp by grinding monsters...

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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But you'll gain health at the same time! You'll have to find some power-upsdowns to drain off the excess, time to time.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

OnlineCop
Member #7,919
October 2006
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I'd definitely play something like this. It sounds awesome! I'd wonder how you would pull off the story so you understand that you're degressing back to square one (the end boss threw some magic spell on you, and you're doomed to un-peat history)?

Make it a Tuesday project!

Yodhe23
Member #8,726
June 2007

Do it like you are the "hidden housekeeper hobgoblin" who resets the dungeon for the next "player hero" to come and defeat.

So rather than killing monsters, and bosses, you would have to heal them, and bring them back to life.

You would have to tidy up the dungeon - sweep up the blood and entails, reset the traps,picking up empty bottles and refilling the potions, getting points/experience/rewards each level for the items hidden, doors reset etc, with bonus points for creating puzzles that the "player" would have to solve when playing forwards etc.

Though this would make it more a dungeon management puzzle game, than a reverse slack-n-hash.

www.justanotherturn.com

verthex
Member #11,340
September 2009
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Ever wonder what would happen in a game such as resident evil or metroid if the puzzles were designed to be solved backwards, and that should answer your problem.

Yodhe23
Member #8,726
June 2007

It wouldn't be about solving problem backwards, but about creating problems from what would be available, so that there would be multiple solutions for which at the end of the level you would be rewarded.
Maybe, you would see the level getting played with by a "ghost hero", who simulates what would/might happen, and depending on what you had to achieve in that level would affect your "reward". For example the idea might not be to just kill a hero, but weaken them, or cause them to take a particular path, which would then have an affect in the level which you have already "cleaned/reset".

Anyway I wibble...

Would be interesting to see how the game is implemented, if it wasn't "merely" a reverse button mash as the supreme loser noted.

www.justanotherturn.com

Audric
Member #907
January 2001

Reminds me of Rolling Thunder III on the Sega Genesis/Megadrive, because on each mission you can pick a weapon from a stash of twelve, and the one you use in a mission can never be used again. This means that on game start you have lots of choice, and when you get to the end-game you are restricted to all the rotten stuff (unless you have saved the precious weapons for the end)

Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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If you make it feel like the ending level of Braid all the way through the game, you've got a winner. Then again in your game you know it's backwards....

Neil.
MAME Cabinet Blog / AXL LIBRARY (a games framework) / AXL Documentation and Tutorial

wii:0356-1384-6687-2022, kart:3308-4806-6002. XBOX:chucklepie

weapon_S
Member #7,859
October 2006
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I like this idea!
A 'survival RPG' like described in that link is certainly more workable. You'd have to hide the player's HP, TP and item quantities (or not have them at all?) otherwise.

Really reversed, you could have some guy that heals you for a number of times at set points in the game. Some parts should be in normal order to avoid craziness, although craziness is good ;D Consider dialogs, fights and dungeons. In a reversed dungeon the damage you receive for the whole dungeon/fight must be dictated, so perhaps you could add a little story/dialog/skit/cut-scene where the heroes lose health by obtaining a rare item otherwise (but again: how do you hide they will have had it in the first place?).
And in a reversed fight you could have moves that damage yourself too? ??? Causing yourself to be healed at the beginning of the fight, means you hadn't had a fight before that, without healing. ???
(I would avoid reversed dialogs ;D )

As a incentive you could have a set of alternatives beginnings instead of endings. For instance, there is a person that helps you maximally 5 times. If you need more help, other characters who can help you 5 times will be introduced. This helper person helps you out right in front of the final boss for the final fight, and dramatically loses his own life. If you do a crummy job, it turns out this person was a soldier you met at the end of your quest; but if you do a good job, it turns out this person was your father, who had helped you since the beginning.

I like the idea, but I can't imagine how it would actually turn out.
I just realised solving puzzles in reverse might be fun too ;D But in some normal puzzles you can 'turn things back' if you made a mistake. Does that mean reverse puzzles need a 'turn things forward' feature ??? My head hurts >.<

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Someone's been reading Extra Punctuation ...

If you make it feel like the ending level of Braid all the way through the game, you've got a winner. Then again in your game you know it's backwards....

THPOILERTHS!!! O_O

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Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Onewing
Member #6,152
August 2005
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Someone's not been reading the original post. ;)

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MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
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He's talking about an existing game being spoiled for him.

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23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Actually, you're both right. :-[ I've finished Braid though ...

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Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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Yeah, I figured everyone's either finished Braid or seen the ending. Bit like Harry Potter, everyone knows the ending was crap and there'd be another cash-cow in the making.

Neil.
MAME Cabinet Blog / AXL LIBRARY (a games framework) / AXL Documentation and Tutorial

wii:0356-1384-6687-2022, kart:3308-4806-6002. XBOX:chucklepie

Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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I hadn't finished Braid yet...

Anyway, I'm somewhat intrigued by the backwards RPG idea. I'm trying to get my head wrapped around a way to make it work, but I haven't had any luck so far. I'm reasonably sure Onewing is smarter than me, though, so hopefully he can do better. ;)

Onewing
Member #6,152
August 2005
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Nah, I just like to throw these ideas out to the group to intrigue the mind. I have no intention of actually making something like this (my "I want to make this" list is all backed up).

The thing that has been stewing on my mind for about a year now is taking the Lore game I used to post about, inverse it (battles only, everything else is "happening" by under-the-cover simulation) and provide it for the perfect mobile experience. I'm still at the pen-and-paper stage with that idea, but it's on the top of my "I want to make this" list.

:D

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piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
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Sounds like a great idea. sound like you can build i nice story behind it as well. have some CGI showing a summary of how your got the diffrent powers.

make it so that you went to save girl that got kidnapped and taken to a maze like world. You folowed the kidnapper and manage to get help for some of the locals along the way that lent you some of their powers. But the power they lent you can only be in there realm and it is fading because they was apart of the boss and the boss is dead so the powers are fading.
So you kill the boss but on his death he is saying the portal is link to him an on his death it will close and you and the girl will be trapped in the world forever. So you are trying to make it back to the portal with the girl.
The girl has to be a healer though to make it a little easier.

wow
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