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A question to all the married men
superstar4410
Member #926
January 2001
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If there are two individuals knowing each other for a relatively short time on the same page and know that they want to marry each other and have discussed marriage and have studied together comprehensive pre-martial workbook material in preparation for marraige how/when does the guy go about the proposal.

(A) Wait till they are very close (99% assuming they are like at 85%now) and fully developed relationship-wise and when he gets to that point then propose.

OR

(B) Propose knowing they both have discussed marriage and use that engagement period as time to get even closer ( from their 85% to 99%).

The pros I see for option A is that you're not rushing

The pros for option B is that when do you really know when you are at the 99% since relationship are like a process not a journey or destination and when you get marry you will continue to grow even more so if they both know thats what they want and have prayed about it.

I think another reason this might even be coming up is that they are Christian and thus not having sex until marriage and Christian couples thus when they know they have found that person they want to get married so they dont fall to sin(pre-martial sex), where as other couples who are already having sex don't feel a rush to marriage because well they are already very intimate(though yes marraige is more than just sex)

Don't take yourself too seriously, but do take your responsibilities very seriously.

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Doesn't make sense to me to quantify "99%" and "85%", what do you even mean there?
I'm not married, but here's my advice: don't until you know you want to. It's a lot of hassle, a lot of money and a lot of emotional hassle, and generally not worth it if you're going to break up within a year anyway. So don't do it unless you can be reasonably sure you're not going to do that.
As for when you're the no-sex-outside-marriage type (an outdated point of view if you ask me, independent of whether you call yourself Christian or not, but up to everyone to decide for themselves), not sure. But ask yourself whether marriage is supposed to be the sort of thing where you ask someone to marry you so you can do it for the next couple of months, then break up, marry someone else for a bit, etc. If you don't think that's what it's supposed to be (and certainly I don't think that's what it's supposed to be), then don't get married just because you want to have sex with eachother.

Uh... in short, do what feels right.

Dizzy Egg
Member #10,824
March 2009
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Shouldn't you only get married if your religous, like, Christian or whatever..

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superstar4410
Member #926
January 2001
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Good point Evert, Yea I too am a Christian so I agree with the whole wait till marriage thing, but the wait till it feels right is what a lot of people say.

They also say if you have to ask if you're ready, you are likely not ready if you have to ask.

Don't take yourself too seriously, but do take your responsibilities very seriously.

Steve Terry
Member #1,989
March 2002
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I also think that you shouldn't make a statistic out of marriage :P If it feels right then it's probably ok. If you have any doubts then hold off.

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Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
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It should not ever matter for you what they(who anyway?) say about things.

Take control of your own life and don't limit yourself by any silly regulations brought unto you without your consent by the religious group you were accidentally born into.

edit: Actually never mind. Just re-read the thread title and realized I'm not supposed to be commenting on it.

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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Stop asking silly question. Act.

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van_houtte
Member #11,605
January 2010
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Stop asking silly question. Act.

this. If you have to ask an internet forum about stuff like this, u still have a lot of life experience to gain.

Also, no sex before marriage is silly. Are you a virgin?

From reading ur threads, you sound like a cry baby, not sure if you're ready or man enough for commitment. Also, IIRC, you just started dating couple of months ago. Chill, take ur time, especially since she's your first gf, you have a lot to learn about relationships, take this as a learning opportunity.

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axilmar
Member #1,204
April 2001

Wait until you are certain with a high degree of certainty that the girl is appropriate for you, then propose to her.

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

"If there are two individuals knowing each other for a relatively short time on the same page and know that they want to marry each other..."

Good... good...

"...and have discussed marriage..."

Good... good...

"...and have studied together comprehensive pre-martial workbook material in preparation for marraige..."

Um... good... I guess... but don't rely on every printed word.

"...how/when does the guy go about the proposal."

OMG! After all that you do together, is it still expected that the guy make the proposal? What freightens me is that the more TV channels we have in Finland, the more they send cheap life style programs produced in USA, showing us a US life style that young people are eager to adapt. There are even Finnish equivalents to most of the programs, showing that Finland seems to make huge steps backwards, towards Middle Ages. I'm talking about all these wedding related programs.

And everyone, who has had pre-martial sex is not a non-Christian.

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Onewing
Member #6,152
August 2005
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When the flirtation leaves, but yet you still remain, is when you should get married.

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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Discuss a prenup first. Seriously. Seriously. I don't care how much you love her or how much you think she loves you (you can never really know if she's acting or not), there's a good chance it won't last forever, and there's a very good chance that she'll take half your shit if it doesn't.

Eddie Murphy said:

[You don't own the pussy. You're leasing it. With the option to buy. Be careful though. You lose half when you trade in.]

Dizzy Egg
Member #10,824
March 2009
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See Bams Sig

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van_houtte
Member #11,605
January 2010
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I wouldnt take bamccaig's advice on relationships, he has little to no experience in this subject

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Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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Dizzy Egg said:

Shouldn't you only get married if your religous, like, Christian or whatever..

Marriage is a ritual to announce officially that you both are seriously committing to your relationship. You can follow a religious rite, but you can also keep it strictly "worldly" - nothing silly about that. If you're a Christian, then it makes sense to undergo a Christian wedding; if you're non-religious it doesn't, but that doesn't mean you can't get married, nor that being married means anything less - you commit to your relationship in a way that feels serious for you.

As for the original question: Dude, you're on your own. There is no general rule for these things. If it feels right for you, and you're certain enough it feels right for her as well, do it.

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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Marriage is a ritual to announce officially that you both are seriously committing to your relationship.

I read that long ago the "best man" would go out and kidnap the woman and then she'd be tied up until her will to leave was gone. Then a string would be tied around her finger to remind her what it was like to be tied up and to not attempt to leave. Apparently the ring today is a remnant of that string. How romantic. :P

I think marriage still comes down to that for men; it's sort of a way to claim the woman for yourself. A less literal sense of ownership. You obviously can't [openly] tie them up like that any more, but I guess the hope is that if she says yes then she's agreeing to be yours "forever". Of course, even the people that seem to be so in love change their minds, so in practice it hardly means anything. I think love is mostly in our own heads. We want to believe that it's something magical and special, but in practice it's not... We like to think of love as a singular shared bond between two people, but in practice each person probably has their own erroneous beliefs about who the other person is, what they feel, what they think, etc.

AFAIK, everybody agrees to be together forever (well, until one of you dies anyway) when they get married, but these days (in the Western world at least) the majority of marriages end in divorce. And odds are that when most of these people got married, both people wholeheartedly believed that the other one loved them and wanted to be together forever, even if they didn't feel the same. You can assume that you know your girlfriend, fiancée, or wife better than all those other poor schmucks did, but you'd probably be fooling yourself. :(

We all like to think of marriage as a romantic thing. I imagine most people want to get married. I do. Reality doesn't lie though. Just because she says "yes" and then "I do" doesn't guarantee she loves you, nor that she'll love you forever. It doesn't guarantee that she won't fuck the mailman. It doesn't guarantee that she won't rob you blind when she divorces you. A prenup is harmless in a "true" marriage; a marriage that lasts forever. It generally only takes effect if you divorce. I honestly can't understand why any guy would agree to marry a girl that refused to sign one... That's just stupid.

</rant>

Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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A prenup is also a great way of saying, "I don't trust you. I think you're going to leave in a year or two."

It can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. "He doesn't trust me, why should I be trustworthy? I'll fuck the mailman... he probably thinks I am anyway."

van_houtte
Member #11,605
January 2010
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i know you like to cry SS4410, but i'd hate to see you become this man :'(
{"name":"Crying.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/9\/c\/9c48467ea928e077744053c7de20a61b.jpg","w":320,"h":413,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/9\/c\/9c48467ea928e077744053c7de20a61b"}Crying.jpg

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GameCreator
Member #2,541
July 2002
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A prenup is the best formal test to see if your woman can discuss financial matters maturely. If you get into a fight over that then that's your best indication you shouldn't marry.

About marriage: it doesn't matter. Know the person (not some workbook) as much as you can to ensure that it lasts. But that said, a friend of mine has been married over 5 years and recently the marriage has been getting stale and both his wife and he are cheating on each other. So like I said, it doesn't really matter. But get the prenup for sure.

Karadoc ~~
Member #2,749
September 2002
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I'd be in favour of the "99%" option. I think it's a good idea to behave as though you are already married before you actually get married. (live together, share finances, etc. for long enough to be reasonably sure that you can bear to be around each other like that.)

In my view, a relationship should last because the relationship is strong and the people want to be with one another. Marriage should not be seen as a way of strengthening the relationship, but rather as a way of signaling to others that the relationship is strong already.

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Crazy Photon
Member #2,588
July 2002
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What GameCreator said. Living together makes or breaks relationships, and you can always marry later if/when you feel like it. What's even more important than getting married is to actually do what it implies (taking care of each other, support each other in times of need, accept each other even though neither are perfect, and so on).

EDIT: With that said, we are probably getting married after 5 years of living together (we are not sure of the date though, since there are other family problems that need to be taken care of first).

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blargmob
Member #8,356
February 2007
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A prenup is also a great way of saying, "I don't trust you. I think you're going to leave in a year or two."

More like, "I am a responsible man that will take effective precautions in the event of a fallout."

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StevenVI
Member #562
July 2000
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Since I actually am in the demographic you are seeking advice from, my opinion is that two people should not make up their mind to be married if they do not feel like they fully know each other. Thus I would vote for the (A) category -- they should make sure they know exactly what they're getting into before going ahead and committing to it.

I have enough ex-girlfriends that I am very grateful to not be chained to, even though I thought that each one of them was the greatest thing before I fully knew them. (And on the flipside of that, I wouldn't trade my wife for anything, she truly is the greatest thing :).) I would say that getting to know each other is part of the dating process. Once a couple has finished this stage, they are ready to move on to committing themselves to each other for the rest of their lives.

With regards to sex, that is a challenging issue. My personal belief is that waiting until you are married is the best way to approach it, though I do understand how difficult it is to refrain from this behavior. I would say it is a matter of will-power though, in that people should keep themselves under control until they know for sure that they want to be with their boyfriend/girlfriend for the rest of their lives -- there are too many risks associated with it (pregnancy, STDs, emotions, etc) to give in to their desires before fully knowing what they are dealing with.

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Steve++
Member #1,816
January 2002

Only get married if you want to have kids and be tied down for the rest of your life.

superstar4410
Member #926
January 2001
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Well said Steven,

and Yes Steve I do want to have kids and i've never been a guy to date many girls so being committed (tied down) to one special lady is not a problem for me.

With the whole living together thing, I've heard that stats show that couples who live together are more likely to get divorced than couples that don't (though logically you wouldnt think so).

I've heard the research shows that living together is not good if you plan on getting married, I looked and found this

Living together before marriage ups chance of divorce: study
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jT-imXqoWfT1zg_1Xuo-A_DiL5Cg

Living together before marriage doesn't significantly raise likelihood of divorce: study
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-03-03/entertainment/27057883_1_cohabiting-couples-marriage

Report: Cohabiting has little effect on marriage success
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2010-03-02-cohabiting02_N.htm

So with the 3 different studies, one is saying living together makes it worst.
Another is saying make it more likely that u'll get divorced but not a significant amount
and the last is saying it has little effect on helping the marriage be successful.

So different degrees but I haven't found one article that says it helps make the marriage last.

This is what I'll do.
I like the points said about:

(1)When the flirtation goes and you are still there then you are ready
(2)The dating process is about getting to know each other, once you complete that stage you are ready
(3)If you have to ask is it time, ur not ready, when ur ready you will know and it will feel right.
(4)Another one i'm adding, when you two have gotten so close that you've seen her at her very worst and seen all her secrets and negative personality traits and you still want to put your full trust in that person, then you are ready.

Thanks

Don't take yourself too seriously, but do take your responsibilities very seriously.



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