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the rent is too damn high |
Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Bubble to save $500? I've lived in a couple places here in North Caroline (not terribly cold) where the monthly heating bill was $400. They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Matthew Leverton said: The market is able to determine what is more cost effective by itself. If that were true... I wish it was. No what the market determines is what is best for the investor behind the companies. Which is usually "Rape the customer till they are broke and dead". -- |
Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Thomas Fjellstrom said: No what the market determines is what is best for the investor behind the companies. Which is usually "Rape the customer till they are broke and dead". Pics or it didn't happen. They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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Arthur Kalliokoski said: Pics or it didn't happen.
Thomas Fjellstrom said: No what the market determines is what is best for the investor behind the companies. I think this is true. Consumer interest isn't always driven by product quality (a driving theory of an ideal free market.) It has more to do with popularity, and popularity can be bought. -- |
Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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dammit!!! Mark always sees through my small schemes... [EDIT] Mark edited, so I'm editing (drunk). I could have sworn I wrote a post about some import car commercial where all it showed was some hot chick grinding on the seat of a car to some currently popular tune, but no actual reasons for buying this car were evident. In other words, people would associate the brand name with the good feeling of seeing this hot chick. Therefore, consumer interest is driven by emotion, not facts. I used the Allegro search as well as google this time. They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
Bob Keane
Member #7,342
June 2006
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Mark Oates said: Socialist. Why should I have to pay for your furnace? Because a more efficient furnace lowers demand for gas which in turn lowers prices. By reading this sig, I, the reader, agree to render my soul to Bob Keane. I, the reader, understand this is a legally binding contract and freely render my soul. |
Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Bob Keane said: lowers demand for gas which in turn lowers prices. Prices for gas? No. Just no. If you can't convince people to buy it, why would you raise prices? They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Arthur Kalliokoski said: If you can't convince people to buy it, why would you raise prices? Huh? You raise prices when demand is up, thats one of the rules of supply and demand. If demand goes down, you want to lower prices to hopefully entice people to buy. -- |
Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Huh? That's what I said . They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Arthur Kalliokoski said: Huh? That's what I said . Thats what he said, so I was confused as to why you said what you said. -- |
Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Oops! I guess I'm still drunk! Well, either that or he edited... They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
decepto
Member #7,102
April 2006
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Matthew Leverton said: $675 for one bedroom! I could rent an entire five bedroom house for that price, and I think that's too damn high. I pay $650 for a studio! I'm moving soon though, thank god. -------------------------------------------------- |
Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Arthur Kalliokoski said: Bubble to save $500? I've lived in a couple places here in North Caroline (not terribly cold) where the monthly heating bill was $400. Yes, it creates an unrealistic demand by moving sales from the next two or three years into this one. People can get up to $1500 for putting in energy efficient windows, furnaces, etc. Obviously nobody will do work on something that still has lots of life time left, but people who have things with one or two years left of life will replace them early (if they have the money to do so.) e.g., Instead of getting the furnace replaced next year, they'll rush to get it done this year. That doesn't increase total demand of new furnaces, it only moves money from next year into this. So it looks good on paper for the politicians because they can claim their program "created" jobs and so forth. But there's no real net gain if you look at the total sales over several years. A monthly heating bill of $400 in NC is ridiculous. To heat the entire house I'm currently living in, it cost less than $900 for the entire winter. So using a more realistic number of $1000... If you gain 10% efficiency, you are saving about $100 per year. If you get 25 years out of your furnace, that's a minimum saving of $2500. If the price of whatever the furnace uses as a fuel source goes up over time, then you'll be saving even more. Now if the difference in cost is really only $500, it shouldn't take government intervention to get people to buy the more efficient furnace. Ironically, the credit applies to home owners ... who are already likely to buy efficient furnaces. The slumlords are the ones with no incentive to buy efficient furnaces, since their tenants are paying the fuel costs. The only way government programs like this are effective if there's only a benefit when everybody works together. i.e., If the positive isn't seen until the entire community updates, then there may be good reason to stimulate demand. |
Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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I'd really like to get a new furnace. Its original to the house. Probably >= 25 years old, and horribly inefficient. Also the gas valve is failing. I'm surprised it still works. -- |
Sirocco
Member #88
April 2000
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Welcome to the club. I'll have my mortgage paid off complete in ~5 years. That's a somewhat happy thought in my otherwise bleak existence. Keeping up a house is a total pain, but I love the place to death. --> |
Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Matthew Leverton said: A monthly heating bill of $400 in NC is ridiculous. They don't insulate anything worth a carp here because "it isn't terribly cold". They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Maintaining a house gives you something to do. The cost of it isn't too bad, especially if you aren't paying a mortgage. But the property taxes and extra / higher utility fees compared to renting is what I find annoying. Arthur Kalliokoski said: They don't insulate anything worth a carp here because "it isn't terribly cold". Obama is giving you $1500 toward insulation as well! |
ImLeftFooted
Member #3,935
October 2003
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Obama is really generous with giving away his money. He must be working night and day to earn all that money he's giving away. |
Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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And things like solar panels carry over to future years. If I were to put $50,000 of solar panels on my house, I'd not have to pay any taxes for the following years until the $15,000 credit was worked off. So he'll even be putting in overtime after he is out of office. |
Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Dustin Dettmer said: Obama is really generous with giving away his money. He must be working night and day to earn all that money he's giving away. <sigh> If only it were true. They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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Dustin Dettmer said: Obama is really generous with giving away his money. He must be working night and day to earn all that money he's giving away. I think he prefers to leave that part to you
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Bob Keane
Member #7,342
June 2006
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ML said: If the price of whatever the furnace uses as a fuel source goes up over time, then you'll be saving even more. I'm not sure I understand that. If your usage is constant, but the unit price goes up, doesn't that eat into your savings? ML said: The slumlords are the ones with no incentive to buy efficient furnaces, since their tenants are paying the fuel costs. Unless the landlord is paying utilities, an incentive to rent in a down economy. Plus the utilities can be written off on your taxes. By reading this sig, I, the reader, agree to render my soul to Bob Keane. I, the reader, understand this is a legally binding contract and freely render my soul. |
Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Bob Keane said: I'm not sure I understand that. If your usage is constant, but the unit price goes up, doesn't that eat into your savings? It doesn't really matter what the unit price or usage is. If the total cost goes up, the total savings increases. Year 1 Year 2 Year 3 Standard $1000 $1200 $1400 Efficient $900 $1080 $1260 ------------------------------------ Savings $100 $120 $140 Obviously you still spend more, but the amount you save relative to what you would have spent with the standard model goes up. And why do you manually specify a name and bogus source to your quotes? |
Bob Keane
Member #7,342
June 2006
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I can't find the automatic quote button. And you edited your post! I talked to the furnace guy again, The $3000 was complete, parts and labor. One less headache. By reading this sig, I, the reader, agree to render my soul to Bob Keane. I, the reader, understand this is a legally binding contract and freely render my soul. |
Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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Here in the lovely UK, we've always had the option of free insulation (loft and wall), paid for by our generous government. As for solar panels, I've worked out that the money you save would take about 30 years to get back. So while I'm all for sustainable energy and looking after the planet, I'm not forking out £10k up-front to wait until I die before I reap the benefits. Neil. wii:0356-1384-6687-2022, kart:3308-4806-6002. XBOX:chucklepie |
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