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Blwhahha?!? An honest minister?
BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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lolwut ... r u drunk bammy ?

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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Dennis said:

If I had this much spare time on my hands, I'd use it to do something productive (like writing games).

Instead you waste what little spare time you apparently have, doing the same thing as us.

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
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I knew you would say that. My point however was that this is a "game developing" community network (says so at the top left of the page), not a "religious or anti religious flame war waging" community network.

anyway:
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Onewing
Member #6,152
August 2005
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I've been creating a flowchart (uh...in my mind) that disassembles how a person came to a certain religious belief (or the lack thereof). My hope is to discover paths that lead to suicide and help determine if someone is going down that path. The very first question is "Do you believe there is a purpose to our existence?" If yes, then you are one step closer to believing in some kind of religion (however, there is a chain on this route that doesn't have a religious conclusion). If no, then you are likely not a religious person.

I got interested in doing this when I discovered that someone can be non-religious but yet still find great purpose in living, even living with good morales/intentions (I actually discovered this here on this forum). So saying no to that first question above is not necessarily evidence in a discouraged life or that it leads to eventual suicide.

Relevant to this thread? Not sure, but sure seemed as good as any place to mention my random musings. :)

------------
Solo-Games.org | My Tech Blog: The Digital Helm

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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To Dennis:

That is true. And in fact I've been programming a game all day long. Maybe 1/20th of that time was responding to this thread... but you're absolutely right. I wish bamccaig would stop writing flame bait posts... someone has to stand up and show what an ass he is, or people might actually take him seriously, and that would be very dangerous.

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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bamccaig said:

Note that they aren't saying that "you should be an atheist because X, Y, Z."

Well, yes. Yes they are. Google auto-completes "why you should be an atheist" rather quickly, for example. :)

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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There exist people who would take him seriously? I thought that even I was more serious than he. :o

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
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I don't think it makes any sense to be worried about what other people think about others or whether they take them seriously or not.

Everybody lives and makes their own picture of the world, it's inhabitants and their ways. I don't believe anyone is entitled to control that.

Trying to rally up people against someone only creates more hate (on both sides) and further alienates that someone from the community, nourishes mutual distrust and fuels negative emotions.

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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Well said Dennis. Wish I could restrain myself better. He makes it awfully hard :/.

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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Oh, I'm not trying to rally up against bamccaig. I'd be devastated if he left a.cc. One of the primary reasons I still come here is to read his posts. :o

Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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bamccaig said:

In every religious discussion I have ever had with a Christian, the message is always that they are good and others are bad.

Others are bad and so am I! Everyone is a sinner, that includes Christians. I've argued about that with Christian who think they're better than others, but I think the message comes across pretty clearly in the Bible that we've all screwed up.

Quote:

You can't sell nothing. :P Atheism doesn't have anything to offer you.

Quite a lot of people try awfully hard to sell atheism.

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Quite a lot of people try awfully hard to sell atheism.

I agree. It's like there's theism and atheism and both are more or less extreme beliefs. Beliefs in that sense that it's important for the supporters to proclaim it loud and that way make a meaning in their lifes. Roughly speaking. Then there's a more void like atheism, that really doesn't make a fuss of the thing, because there is no thing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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There is no "hate" in Christianity

King James Version, Jesus H. Christ speaking.

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father,
and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea,
and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

The only way Trump is going to be involved in a landslide is if the land surrounding the White House collapses into the Earth's core. -- bamccaig

Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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King James Version, Jesus H. Christ speaking.

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father,
and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea,
and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Haha, Trent just got told! :P

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Romans 9, God said:

As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

God owns you all. 8-)

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father,
and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea,
and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

... he's saying God comes first.

EDIT:

nvm, that might be another verse. I don't feel like looking up the context but the Bible is not to be interpreted literally -- meaning there is a lot of simile and things of that nature in the Bible.

EDIT2:

Actually having looked at it, I think I was right with what I said before my edit.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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See, this is the trouble about giving any religion a name.

One calls himself a Christian with some belief of what he thinks Christianity is or should be, and thus every verse and passage in the Bible becomes bent to map his perception.

So instead of applying the Bible as your sense of morality, you apply your sense of morality to the Bible. There's no way Jesus can tell you to hate somebody, so therefore, it must mean something else. I find that most non-hardcore religious people are actually like that, and as such, could easily be Muslim or Hindu or Buddhist and be the exact same person.

Although, I agree that picking verses out of context is very misleading. However, people still have no problems dismissing entire passages and concepts that don't mesh with their opinions, so I think the whole "out of context" is mostly just a convenient excuse.

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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nvm, that might be another verse. I don't feel like looking up the context but the Bible is not to be interpreted literally -- meaning there is a lot of simile and things of that nature in the Bible.

And then also, it may originally have said "If any man come to me, and gives a hat not to his father" which then got miscopied to "If any man come to me, and gives hate not to his father", etc, etc.

Anyone who doesn't give out hats certainly can't be one of my disciples. Oh, and speaking of disciples, I just actually bought a legal copy of the Gold edition of Disciples II.

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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I think actually reading it in context, after having read the Bible, it meshes with the rest of it in its wording. But I'm no Bible worshipper... it has taught me some things though, such as

"And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."

There are so many more positive messages in the Bible that it's just trolling to pick out a bad one and claim it to be representative. But again, not a Bible worshipper...

Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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There are so many more positive messages in the Bible that it's just trolling to pick out a bad one and claim it to be representative.

So we should just ignore the bits we don't like?

Anyway, that passage in Luke was pulled out as a response to the claim that there is no hate in Christianity. It was relevant and a very good point. I also don't think the passage was meant to be figurative, although it has been taken out of context in this thread.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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But again, not a Bible worshipper...

All I'm getting at is to say Christianity (or some religion) was responsible for some evil deed is fairly pointless. People use whatever means they can to accomplish their goals, even if that means adapting a religion and using it to their own advantage.

Yes, organized religions have done some terrible things, but so have non-religious organizations. It doesn't really matter. Even in the complete absence of the concept of God, I believe the same sort of people would be responsible for the same sort of things. They'd just use other means to accomplish their agenda.

Nationalism is just as an effective tool as religion... and in fact, most religious war machines were nothing but justified racism.

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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So we should just ignore the bits we don't like?

No, you should focus on those. Obviously that's what you're looking for.

Quote:

I also don't think the passage was meant to be figurative

You're right, how could I not see it before! God wants us to hate everyone! That's why He cured the sick and fed the hungry! He's eeeeeeeeevil!

Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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You're right, how could I not see it before! God wants us to hate everyone! That's why He cured the sick and fed the hungry! He's eeeeeeeeevil!

Well, that's one way to respond, I suppose. I'm pretty sure God doesn't hate everyone, though. If He did, why send Jesus in the first place? No, the way I read that passage is that loving the world will cause you to put the world before God. Look at Luke 16:13, the whole "No servant can serve two masters" passage that points out how loving one master will make you hate the other.

Quote:

No, you should focus on those. Obviously that's what you're looking for.

Erm... you realize I'm a Christian, right? I just don't think we should brush aside perceived issues in the Bible.

MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
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Bam's religion is Sonyism.

I'll see myself out.

---
Febreze (and other air fresheners actually) is just below perfumes/colognes, and that's just below dead skunks in terms of smells that offend my nose.
MiquelFire.red | +Me
If anyone is of the opinion that there is no systemic racism in America, they're either blind, stupid, or racist too. ~Edgar Reynaldo

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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No, the way I read that passage is that loving the world will cause you to put the world before God. Look at Luke 16:13, the whole "No servant can serve two masters" passage that points out how loving one master will make you hate the other.

I agree, that's pretty much what I said too. Hate in that context means "love less", either it's for added drama or a quirk in translation.

A lot of my Bible study was done at a time when I was struggling with an undiagnosed mental illness, and the nature of the illness, as it was getting worse, caused some pretty irrational behaviour and extreme attitudes about things. Thus when I pick up a Bible now, I'm quite terrified by it. Afraid that I'll go back to those extreme ways of thinking and some pretty hellish times... I can only tolerate it in small doses and in the parts that I remember. Perhaps I'm naive, but I've done my 40 days of fasting in the wilderness, and I just want to read the warm and fluffy Bible quotes now :P.

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