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TranslatorHack 2010 Results!
type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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Good work from you Dario, yay for all the work you put in it !!

Agreed. Only a high school pupil could've been that caring. Or perhaps an aged woman without children as well :P

Quote:

Can't say why, but I am happy ^^

It's cos' of the #3.

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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Tehehehehe !

type568 have been mind translated ^^

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
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type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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I wot?:(

Dario ff
Member #10,065
August 2008
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type568 said:

Or perhaps an aged woman without children as well

Well, I ain't a woman...

You're all just saying that because the logo is awesome. 8-)

TranslatorHack 2010, a human translation chain in a.cc.
My games: [GiftCraft] - [Blocky Rhythm[SH2011]] - [Elven Revolution] - [Dune Smasher!]

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Dario ff said:

You're all just saying that because the logo is awesome. 8-)

That O looks like a sphincter.

--
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Crazy Photon
Member #2,588
July 2002
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Dario ff said:

can anyone explain me what's this whole deal about shirt, sweater, sweatshirt?

Well, depending on the type of "camiseta", it can either be considered a shirt or a T-shirt. T-shirt is the most common usage though, while shirt is mainly used in sports, so think I should have used the former instead. Mea culpa :-/

Dario ff said:

I like the final #4 better than the original quote.

Indeed, I agree. :)

Dario ff said:

Still, I did the first translation to Spanish, so Crazy Photon corrected them (insist on).

;D

Without context, translators may add or take away meaning based on their inferences.

That's true. That is why I translated with "may" instead of "can" in #4, since it is not so likely that weird people will actually get to be in a sensitive position.

type568 said:

Only a high school pupil could've been that caring.

Over here, most students would not. :-X

that was kind of a nice community experience !

+1 to that.

Quote:

Good work from you Dario, yay for all the work you put in it !!

Muchas gracias Darío, this was indeed a fun experiment and it shows that you have a lot of discipline to take care of this from the beginning to the end.

Congratulations to everyone!

-----
Resistance is NEVER futile...

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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Over here, most students would not.

Students & pupils are different creatures.
I'll say what was behind my words, no offense towards anyone. Dario has really done a nice job.
When one is going somewhere, where he hasn't been before, and is "full of that feeling", aka "feeling of doing something that matters"- his care towards the subject is raising.

e.g. most likely I wouldn't bother
& yes, probably that means that something inside me tells me it's child's play.. But it's still is very very nice.

append:

Quote:

Muchas gracias Darío, this was indeed a fun experiment and it shows that you have a lot of discipline to take care of this from the beginning to the end.

+1

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Dario ff said:

I find it's really curious that the 3rd sentence changed from something wrong to an embarrassing situation...

Probably a typo of some case, or accidentally typing one word while meaning another:

Dario ff said:

English:

*

Even though the result of the experiment was erroneus, we can't say it hadn't been fun while it lasted.

French:

*

Même si les résultats de l'expérience sont faux, nous ne pouvons pas dire que cela n'a pas été amusant.

Emphasis mine.

weapon_S said:

I knew I would make an embarrassing mistake.

Meh, don't worry about it. :)

Quote:

As for sentence #2: "blijven" implies "contuining", although not that strong. Still I decided to translate it that way. Maybe, this is even the thing that distracted me...

I had a similar consideration going the other way. "You insist on wearing them" means you continue to wear them (despite arguments why you shouldn't). A more literal translation that I considered is "je staat erop ze te blijven dragen", but that sounded a bit strong. Whether it's more appropriate or not is up to interpretation (in the absence of additional context).

I guess it's well known that sentences (or stories) change their meaning (or swap one item for another, one character for another) in retellings, especially across language barriers, even if everyone tries to repeat what they heared faithfully. Still neat to see it in action!

Arvidsson
Member #4,603
May 2004
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I was surprised there weren't more gibberish coming out of the translations, but I guess people were more careful at what was said and what they were saying than compared to a simple game of telephone. Good job everyone! It was enjoyable to watch from the sidelines as well.

FMC
Member #4,431
March 2004
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That's because you fuck at French ^^

I was considering the "back to english" translation ;)

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GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/experiment said:

Etymology

From Old French experiment (French: expérience), from Latin experimentum.

Thought I just looked at it today, I can't see were I was wrong except for the time translation. (English used the past, and I used the present).

Evert, mind to give more explanations ?

FMC: I would have loved to tease you while eating an ice cream ^^

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
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LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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Thought I just looked at it today, I can't see were I was wrong except for the time translation. (English used the past, and I used the present).

Evert, mind to give more explanations ?

Experiment and experience were synonyms in English at one point in time, but not for centuries. Now they have completely different meanings. An experiment is always a test of some sort, yet an experience is anything anybody undergoes.

FMC
Member #4,431
March 2004
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FMC: I would have loved to tease you while eating an ice cream ^^

Heh, i don't see why! ;) ;)

[FMC Studios] - [Caries Field] - [Ctris] - [Pman] - [Chess for allegroites]
Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will, like them, only entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful will easily break through them. -Anacharsis
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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Lenny said:

An experiment is always a test of some sort, yet an experience is anything anybody undergoes.

That's why. In French we would use the same word for both situations, as in the following examples:
-L'expérience a mal tourné, les composants chimiques n'étaient pas stables.
-Le parcours du combattant est très dur, comme j'ai pu en faire l'expérience durant ma préparation militaire.

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
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Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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In French we would use the same word for both situations

I stand corrected!
Interesting, in that case the post-French translation would always be ambiguous and would need some interpretation based on context (since and experience can't be "wrong" that might have been a way, but once "experience" slipped into the English it stayed there since it was part of the sentence at that point).

Dario ff
Member #10,065
August 2008
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Now that's interesting. It seems the main problem is indeed the lack of context. Machines can translate well in some situations by not having a context(eg. sentence #1), but humans tend to change them. The thing is that everyone obviously tried to preserve the meaning. The main problem obviously was the ambiguous terms--where some languages have different ways to denominate the same thing, others have only 1 word. Or the same word that can be used for different purposes.

The problem with some of the translations was the "human factor" of guessing the context IMO. I knew everyone would be unsure of their performance without knowing the context. But you had to be under the same unfair circumstances as the Bad Translator.

Most of the mistakes in the translations were because of that, and I'm sure 10 different translators of the same language would have had different results without knowing the context.

That said, I wish I could put the care I put in this in my game now. So let's see if I can get some motivation flowing! ;)

TranslatorHack 2010, a human translation chain in a.cc.
My games: [GiftCraft] - [Blocky Rhythm[SH2011]] - [Elven Revolution] - [Dune Smasher!]

Goalie Ca
Member #2,579
July 2002
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Well, I guess I suck at translating. I tried interpreting the meanings too much and I guess the originals sentences were nothing at all like I imagine. The experiment/experience thing was one of those moments. At the moment it never occurred to me that an experiment could be both fun and have negative results because i'm stuck in a lab :P I thought the sentence was just "telephoned" and i tried guessing the original. Maybe i should have trusted you guys more :P

edit: the other thing i screwed up was «à m'amener à en porter» which is a turn of phrase that i never heard before. I for some reason imagined that meant "to bring along to wear".

-------------
Bah weep granah weep nini bong!

kenmasters1976
Member #8,794
July 2007

Dario ff said:

The problem with some of the translations was the "human factor" of guessing the context IMO.

Yes, like in sentence number 3. I'm the one who changed it from a bad situation to an uncomfortable situation 'cause I was trying to get a correct sentence while still keeping the same structure of the one I received. Since the sentence had already some changes from the original, my guessing was wrong.

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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Evert: great how a wrong quote can finally end to be something ever stronger in term of brain storming than the right answer itself. smootch ! :-)

These futur translators will use something like a neural network. Alice programs and others are perhaps a key to the better translator.

I would like to develop on the subject but I admit that I am not brain stuffed enough to be clear in my explanations.

Anyway if:
-it has a dynamic base of a bunch of dictionaries
-it has a translating oriented neural network based on a huge learning using a huge human feeding. Let's say it'll use a thousand translators for from each available language, each talking a different second language for mixing 'meaning' results.
-we have a million programmers and a thousand researchers in various high sci domains

It can be done !

Well, I also have thought to a system like seti@home which ask for a translation a day from each subscribers to feed the database.

Erm. Well, that's what I think the future will be.

PS: I perhaps was somewhat under piccology while writing that post, but neural networks are fascinating, ever more now we have class 1 computers at home.

Edit: plus I am now imagining that one day some could read that thread, like: "Hey, that's a fscking fascinating thread, see how it has nicely started, let's do it"
And make money with it ... piccolo, out of my minds ! ;)

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

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