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TranslatorHack 2010 Results!
Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Mokkan said:

While #4 is an odd sentence, it does seem correctly written!

It's more appropriate to use who instead of that when referring to people, but it's not grammatically incorrect.

Dario ff said:

People that are very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history.

I'd probably phrase it more like this to create the desired (as I assume) emphasis:

Even a weird (strange, different, odd?) person can obtain a sensitive position and make a tremendous impact on history.

As it is written, it sounds as if only "weird people" can hold a sensitive position.

kenmasters1976
Member #8,794
July 2007

So, who wins?. I'd say humans won, as expected. Google Translate works fine with simple sentences; it did surprisingly well on the third one but messed all others, except the first one.

This proves that translating is one of those things that machines can't do. Where's the so called AI when it's needed?.

We messed some sentences too, but even so, you can make some sense out of the resulting sentences (unlike Google's). So, if we won, when do I get my prize?.

[EDIT:] It's easier to see Google's mess like this:

Your Task - Translate this:

Google said:

1. Hello John, what can we do for you today?
2. I told you I like the blue shirt, but want to use it!
3. Although the results of this experiment has proved this wrong, we can not deny that it was fun when it lasted.
4. People are very strange positions in sensitive and have a tremendous impact on history.
5. My religion consists of a humble admiration is boundless humor that reveals the smallest details, see the memory of our fragile and weak.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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This proves that translating is one of those things that machines can't do.

This just proves that humans can't yet build machines to perfectly translate languages (and indeed, some languages just can't communicate ideas as effectively as others, so data is lost). Humans are machines.

kenmasters1976
Member #8,794
July 2007

I meant machines as in computers.

Dario ff
Member #10,065
August 2008
avatar

Ok, as our next activity, we'll translate like l33t h4x0rs.

TranslatorHack 2010, a human translation chain in a.cc.
My games: [GiftCraft] - [Blocky Rhythm[SH2011]] - [Elven Revolution] - [Dune Smasher!]

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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I meant machines as in computers.

There's theoretically nothing stopping a sufficiently large and complicated computer from translating languages as well or perhaps better than humans can. Unfortunately, humans do not currently possess the potential to build such a thing.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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bamccaig said:

Unfortunately, humans do not currently possess the potential to build such a thing.

Well we need to build computers to build such a thing :-X.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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bamccaig said:

There's theoretically nothing stopping a sufficiently large and complicated computer from translating languages as well or perhaps better than humans can. Unfortunately, humans do not currently possess the potential to build such a thing.

Of course computers are just "force multipliers" for the human intellect, but there are still things that are easier to do with a computer (anything with a set of strict logical rules), and some things that are harder to do with a computer (fuzzier things that involve pattern recognition, tasks relating to social and/or emotional elements etc). It's impossible to tell if we will ever solve these problems and make computers equivalent to humans at these tasks. It's not just a matter of throwing more computing power at the problem...

kenmasters1976
Member #8,794
July 2007

bamccaig said:

There's theoretically nothing stopping a sufficiently large and complicated computer from translating languages as well or perhaps better than humans can. Unfortunately, humans do not currently possess the potential to build such a thing.

I meant "one of those things that machines can't do" as in "as of now", but to be honest, I have my doubts about if such things as AI or GoodTranslator will ever happen. I'll have to see to believe... unless that's not expected to happen until 30th century.

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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Mokkan said:

While #4 is an odd sentence, it does seem correctly written!

It's correct as far as grammar and spelling are concerned. However, "sensitive positions" is very vague. It wasn't until after all the translations when through that I realized that it was supposed to be referring to people who hold positions (jobs) where they deal with sensitive material/issues. It sounds originally as if it's talking about physically being in a position that makes you feel more sensitive.

The term tremendous is also ambiguous in that context. Is it supposed to mean wonderful or significant? I'm guessing the latter.

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

In Finland we watch foreign movies and TV series with original soundtrack and subtitles. Very often the translators (they are all human) do some extra when translating. In one episode of Friends Ross says something like "I wouldn't drink milk from your breast even if it had a picture of a lost kid on it". I remember the Finnish translation went like "...even if there was a sour cream recipy on it" because milk cartons in Finland usually have all kinds of recipies printed on them. I'd like to see some computer doing that kind of translations.

Strange thing is that I saw a re-run of that very same episode of Friends the other night and they had obviously done a new translation for the subtitles (probably another TV channel since previous time). This time the translator completely missed the point and mentioned the picture of a lost kid. I guess many Finns wouldn't know what that is all about. I wouldn't have, if I wouldn't have figured it out the first time because of the clever translation.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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How come that nobody has blamed Obama, so far?

Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
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Just wanted to say good job to everyone involved. This little experiment was very interesting.

[edit] And I just got confirmation from the CIA that, "...we, the CIA, are not the least bit interested in the content of internet message boards, internet forums or other international forms of communications."

I guess that means everyone is in the clear... ::)

Honestly, who really cares though... :P

----
Oh... Bieber! I thought everyone was chanting Beaver... Now it doesn't make any sense at all. :-/

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

As it is written, it sounds as if only "weird people" can hold a sensitive position.

Not to me it doesn't. "can" just doesn't imply that to me. But maybe I'm just weird ;)

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Slartibartfast
Member #8,789
June 2007
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In the 5th sentence it seems like type568 misread "ידוע" as "ידע" and "הופך" as "הפך", which really changed the meaning there, but only the second change had a lasting effect, and even that was gone by the time the Swedish translation ended. And in #1 "John" somehow turned into "Jhon", which almost lasted to the end.

Other than that, Hebrew had almost no lasting negative effect on our translation.

And yeah, it was a lot of fun :)

(And yeah, the Hebrew in the first post looks correct to me.)

weapon_S
Member #7,859
October 2006
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:-[ I knew I would make an embarrassing mistake. Sorry, "overhemd" in Dutch is a "shirt" (or actually a "dress shirt"), not a "sweatshirt". I just completely looked over that word while rechecking the sentences.
Sentence #3 actually turned out better by Google than the initial sentence. I don't think results of an experiment can be "wrong". I didn't do anything to fix that, though.
As for sentence #2: "blijven" implies "contuining", although not that strong. Still I decided to translate it that way. Maybe, this is even the thing that distracted me...

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

In Finland we watch foreign movies and TV series with original soundtrack and subtitles. Very often the translators (they are all human) do some extra when translating. In one episode of Friends Ross says something like "I wouldn't drink milk from your breast even if it had a picture of a lost kid on it". I remember the Finnish translation went like "...even if there was a sour cream recipy on it" because milk cartons in Finland usually have all kinds of recipies printed on them. I'd like to see some computer doing that kind of translations.

Strange thing is that I saw a re-run of that very same episode of Friends the other night and they had obviously done a new translation for the subtitles (probably another TV channel since previous time). This time the translator completely missed the point and mentioned the picture of a lost kid. I guess many Finns wouldn't know what that is all about. I wouldn't have, if I wouldn't have figured it out the first time because of the clever translation.

I don't think I'd want them to do that kind of translation if I was the one watching. When I watch it I do so assuming it's the USA, in this case knowing it's New York. We don't have missing children on our milk cartons, but I know that they do in some places so I get the joke. I think it loses some of the joke using a sour cream recipe... Wouldn't it be better anyway for the foreigners to look it up and learn something instead of being mislead about the USA? :-/ If American jokes don't make sense to you then why watch the show? :P

Dario ff
Member #10,065
August 2008
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I find it's really curious that the 3rd sentence changed from something wrong to an embarrassing situation... just like some of you now are admitting some of your mistakes, yet it was fun while it lasted. ;D

And also, great job everyone. None of you cheated apparently, there were no problems with the PM chain, and we got finished this in a Sunday, the same day it started. ;)

TranslatorHack 2010, a human translation chain in a.cc.
My games: [GiftCraft] - [Blocky Rhythm[SH2011]] - [Elven Revolution] - [Dune Smasher!]

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Not to me it doesn't. "can" just doesn't imply that to me

The sentence is ambiguous, but people may infer that. You may be more apt to infer exclusivity on a sentence such as:

Deaf people can apply for this grant.

Without context, translators may add or take away meaning based on their inferences. Inserting a qualifier (e.g., only, even) at the beginning of the sentence would help a lot.

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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Dario ff said:

And don't worry, this thread isn't under surveillance by the CIA, type568 already explained to the government that the whole nuclear-minded deal was just a joke, hopefully..

Dario, you've managed to be wrong here whole three times. At least, three times.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Without context, translators may add or take away meaning based on their inferences. Inserting a qualifier (e.g., only, even) at the beginning of the sentence would help a lot.

Point taken. Context in english is really important.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
avatar

Point taken. Context in english is really important.

I'd say it does in pretty much all languages, except for programming ones.
And the interpreters, should keep all possible meanings when they interpret.

kenmasters1976
Member #8,794
July 2007

Ron Novy said:

"...we, the CIA, are not the least bit interested in the content of internet message boards, internet forums or other international forms of communications."

That's what they want us to believe.

And in #1 "John" somehow turned into "Jhon", which almost lasted to the end.

When I did my translation, I thought about changing it to John as in the PM I received it was Jhon but then I thought "Who am I to change this guy's name?". It eventually (in the last translation) went back to John as in the original sentence.

Curiously, Google translated John as Juan in the first Spanish translation but kept it as John in the second. While Juan would be the Spanish equivalent to John, you really can't change a person's name just like that.

weapon_S said:

Sentence #3 actually turned out better by Google than the initial sentence.

Almost. "Although the results of this experiment has proved this wrong, we can not deny that it was fun while it lasted." would be better. But yes, as I said, Google did surprisingly well on this one. It was lucky...

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
avatar

Yay, the results are finally in!
I thought the sentences were a bit odd by the time they reached me. :)

bamccaig said:

We don't have missing children on our milk cartons, but I know that they do in some places so I get the joke. I think it loses some of the joke using a sour cream recipe... Wouldn't it be better anyway for the foreigners to look it up and learn something instead of being mislead [sic] about the USA? :-/ If American jokes don't make sense to you then why watch the show? :P

... it's a TV show, not a holy book whose every word must be kept pure. The translator's task is to stick as close to the source material as possible while still keeping it funny[1]. If the joke doesn't work in the local language/culture, you exchange it for something that does. Puns, for example, usually only make sense in their original language - if translated verbatim, they often make no sense whatsoever. So if you were a translator, would you subtitle a show with complete gibberish? Or would you switch out untranslatable puns for equivalents in the local tongue?
Johan's example is pretty much the same thing: the translator realized that the original joke would be incomprehensible to a large portion of the audience, so he exchanged it for an equivalent joke that they would get.

<Insert point about American remakes of British shows here>

References

  1. More generally: while still conveying the essence of the original work.

--
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GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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FMC said:

i also noticed the French made a couple of changes too (on other sentences) ;)

That's because you fuck at French ^^

Anyway, that was kind of a nice community experience !

I expected the sentence to be changed a lot more due to the multitude of language we used.

The #5 is my preferred, and it looks like we fscked up #2 and #3 more than the others.

I am really impressed by the fact that the meaning hasn't changed THAT much from the start to the final translation.

Good work from you Dario, yay for all the work you put in it !!

Can't say why, but I am happy ^^

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

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