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Digital Camera Advise (part 2) |
FMC
Member #4,431
March 2004
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I'm looking forward to buy my first digital SLR, and i'll gladly accept and form of advice. The main feature i was looking for was complete control over the shutter, exposure time, focus and so on. I like experimenting with weird settings, so this is a must. [FMC Studios] - [Caries Field] - [Ctris] - [Pman] - [Chess for allegroites] |
Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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FMC said: The main feature i was looking for was complete control over the shutter, exposure time, focus and so on. I like experimenting with weird settings, so this is a must. This is a feature of all SLR cameras that I know of. I'd check out http://www.dpreview.com/ and get a feel for the different models available at that price range.
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FMC
Member #4,431
March 2004
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Jonatan Hedborg said: I'd check out http://www.dpreview.com/ and get a feel for the different models available at that price range. Thanks, it's a pretty nice site, and the "Buy guide to DSLR" was very usefull. I can't seem to find a way to search by price range though. [FMC Studios] - [Caries Field] - [Ctris] - [Pman] - [Chess for allegroites] |
miran
Member #2,407
June 2002
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You have basically two options: 1. Get a Canon or Nikon Canon and Nikon are the mainstream options. Between them they control almost 90% of the market and have cameras in all price ranges. The good thing about CaNikon is that they have whatever you want in terms of body and lenses. The downside is that they will sell you less camera for more money than the other manufacturers (they have very good marketing and people just fall for that) and if you really want something good, you need to pay a lot more money. Also CaNikon don't have systems for image stabilization built into the camera body, so every lens you buy has to have an IS system (or VR as Nikon calls it) of their own if you want stabilization. This means good CaNikon lenses are generally more expensive than equivalent lenses from other manufacturers (although not always!), but the really bad thing is that many of their specialist lenses don't have IS at all (especially macro, portrait and generally all other prime lenses from Canon and Nikon don't have IS or VR). On the other hand there are the smaller players in the DSLR world. Of those none is a really good choice, but they all have some advantages over CaNikon and some disadvantages. Sony (who bought Minolta a few years ago) in going up (now has about 10% market share globally), but is doing this very slowly and with some weird choices in their strategy. They have about 5 or 6 entry level models (all sub 700€), two high level amateur models (1500-2000€) and none in the amateur mid range (1000-1500€) or at the professional level (>3000€). So if you buy an entry level Sony and later decide to upgrade, there's not much choice for you right now. They do have many nice lenses, especially from Carl Zeiss though. With Pentax the situation is even worse. They do have a couple of quality mid range and affordable entry level models (perhaps best value on the market right now), but again none at the higher level. And you can get the entry level ones in about 15 or 20 different colours, which just doesn't look very serious. It's like they're trying to sell their cameras to kiddies. Also their choice of lenses is a bit limited. And if you look at the whole company, they have <2% market share and don't seem like a very stable company at the moment (they'll either die or will be bought out by someone in the next year or two), so buying a Pentax now is probably not very future proof. And Olympus is even worse than Pentax. To start, they have a weird format of their own called 4/3 while other top DSLR companies make cameras in the APS-C and 35mm Full Frame format. This means that many 3rd party lenses are not available for Olympus. Also they've been now concentrating on a new format called micro 4/3, so it's a question how long the original 4/3 DSLR format will survive. Also their choice of bodies and lenses is very limited. On the other hand you could take a look at one of those micro 4/3 cameras which are just as good as a regular DSLR but a lot smaller and lighter. And there are several other manufacturers offering very good micro 4/3 cameras, namely Panasonic and Samsung. This format is relatively new, so there aren't a lot of lenses yet available, but because of the format, pretty much any lens fits with an adapter. To sum it up, if you want to be on the safe side, buy whatever Canon or Nikon camera you get these days for 700€ (probably Canon 500D or Nikon D5000, but you should probably pay a couple hundred more for a Canon 50D or Nikon D90 if you decide to take that route). If you want more for your money, get a Sony A550 or maybe the cheaper A500, just be aware that the current Sonys don't record video and you will only see the benefits of Sony's in-body stabilization later when you will be able to buy cheaper non-stabilized lenses and any prime lens you put on it will automatically be stabilized. I'd avoid Pentax and Olympus and also the Canon's, Nikon's and Sony's cheapest models though. And those micro 4/3 options are in my mind only good as a second camera. Like something small and light to take with you on a trip when you don't want to lug around your big and heavy gear. If I were you, I'd buy a Sony A550, but that's just me, because I don't like Canon and Nikon. Most people will tell you the exact opposite. -- |
Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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I'm very happy with my A200. The only thing I lack is better noise levels at high ISO settings (but that is always something you want more of
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miran
Member #2,407
June 2002
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Yes, that's the nonsense Sony does in the entry level range. Removes MLU (mirror lockup) and DOF preview, has bracketing with useless parameters just for the sake of being able to tick off items on specification sheets and so on. I still have the A100 which is a great camera but I would replace it with a newer model any time if there was one worth looking at. The A550 is not much of an upgrade (well, high ISO performance is better, auto focus is better, speed is better, but generally it just doesn't seem like a worthy upgrade for A100 or A200, it's more like a replacement), the A700 has been discontinued a long time ago and still hasn't been replaced with a new model, and then the next one, the A850 costs 1700-1800€ body-only. -- |
Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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I had a chance to use the A900 a while back. It's really nice. Feels very expensive.
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gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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If you have friends into photography, check what they have. For me, that was a major deciding factor - knowing that I could borrow lenses from my friends. -- |
Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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I'm no expert, but of all the research I did last month, I basically settled on the Olympus E-520 kit with 2 decent lenses from http://www.adorama.com/ . And its only gotten cheaper since PMA hit (the E-520 was already one generation down, and no doubt its probably two generations behind now, but the E-6xx wasn't much of an improvement over the E-520, so I didn't see a point in paying the premium for the latest model at the time). -- |
verthex
Member #11,340
September 2009
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The one thing I'm sure about with Sony is they make better cameras for low light/intensity in general. I had a Cybershot once which took awesome photos at nighttime. I tried doing the same with a Canon S5IS and its totally crap compared to the Sony. The Canon I have does have better overall quality for less price.
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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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I'm not sure you can make that comparison stick for all cameras... Just because you had ONE Cybershot that took decent low light pictures, somehow all Sony's are better? Right. Yes, some cameras are better at one thing or another depending on the sensor, the shutter, and other factors, but those things all change from model to model, you can't possibly think your conclusion applies across an entire brand. -- |
verthex
Member #11,340
September 2009
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Thomas Fjellstrom said: Just because you had ONE Cybershot that took decent low light pictures, somehow all Sony's are better? Right. Thats true, but what Im betting on is that Sony is cheap enough to make most of their middle line cameras the same. It did have hologram AF and nightvision but those were also features. I can only assume a CCD is a CCD so thats not any different. edit: I took that photo of the cat in my avatar with the sony F717 cybershot. I'm not sure what feature made the night photos look good. Night vision was just greenish similar to the view you would get in nightvision goggles.
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miran
Member #2,407
June 2002
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@verthex: FMC is looking to buy a DSLR, not a P&S camera. That's a huge difference. Regarding low light performance, Sony used to be way behind the leading two brands, but has improved a lot with the latest models (A450, A500 and A550). These are about as good as equivalent Canon and Nikon models. Not worse, but not that much better either. But they are all A LOT better at high ISO than any compact P&S. Also the current DSLRs (as well as many P&S cameras) pretty much all have CMOS sensors and not CCD anymore. CCD is better at good light/low ISO where it has a better dynamic response and everything that that implies (better reproduction of colours, better contrast and eventually just nicer, crisper images at ISO 100), but CMOS is a lot better for high ISO (that's ISO 1600, 3200, 6400 and up) because it has a much better S/N ratio. Btw, my A100 still has a CCD sensor and creates excellent images at base ISO. In fact, many people who used to have A100 and similar cameras and later upgrade to something like (the much better) A700, A900 or A550, which have CMOS sensors, don't sell their A100, but keep it for low ISO work (landscapes etc.) -- |
verthex
Member #11,340
September 2009
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miran said: but CMOS is a lot better for high ISO (that's ISO 1600, 3200, 6400 and up) because it has a much better S/N ratio. Well I guess I'm screwed cause my Cybershot took on seawater and shorted itself. Quite a common way to lose a camera around where I live. The thing I don't like about SLRs is that the lenses cost a lot and that the mirror that reflects the light back to the "image sensor" and the sensor itself get dust on it. Usually I'm shooting in sea spray so its a really bad situation.
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miran
Member #2,407
June 2002
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verthex said: The thing I don't like about SLRs is that the lenses cost a lot and that the mirror that reflects the light back to the "image sensor" and the sensor itself get dust on it. Usually I'm shooting in sea spray so its a really bad situation. Not that it matters, but the mirror reflects the light to the optical viewfinder and gets out of the way to let it pass to the sensor when you press the shutter. But yeah, getting dust on the sensor is a problem, but only if you don't have a water and dust resistant body and lenses. Most higher end cameras and lenses are actually water&dust resistant so if you get one of those and don't change lenses when you're in such an environment, there shouldn't be any problems. On the other hand, it's a cheaper and probably more convenient to get a small waterproof P&S for this kind of photography... -- |
gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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If dust gets into a properly ingress protected SLR, it'll get into a compact as well. The difference then between an SLR and a compact is that when you get dust in your compact, you have to disassemble the whole camera to fix it. -- |
FMC
Member #4,431
March 2004
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Thanks guys, very interesting ideas (nice post miran), i'm currently looking at a dozen or so models, as soon as i narrow it down to 3 or 4 i'll post again asking your advice. [edit] gnolam said: If you have friends into photography, check what they have. For me, that was a major deciding factor - knowing that I could borrow lenses from my friends.
Unfortunately i have none So, i basically narrowed my choices to these: Any reasons to get one instead of the other? [FMC Studios] - [Caries Field] - [Ctris] - [Pman] - [Chess for allegroites] |
gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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FMC said: (one thing i like about this model is that it can keep the shutter open up to 60 secs) The others should too. The maximum preset time for mine (and most other cameras) is 30 seconds, but set it to bulb mode and you can keep it open indefinitely. -- |
GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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I would go with a 550D ;-p "Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours" |
miran
Member #2,407
June 2002
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There's also one thing you should know about dpreview.com. They're extremely biased towards Canon & Nikon and against Pentax, Olympus and especially Sony. That's because Canon and Nikon are sponsoring them. Basically they're paid to write better reviews for Canon and Nikon products. Before committing to something I'd ask for a second opinion. -- |
FMC
Member #4,431
March 2004
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gnolam said: The others should too. The maximum preset time for mine (and most other cameras) is 30 seconds, but set it to bulb mode [www.hypergurl.com] and you can keep it open indefinitely. This is very interesting news, thanks! I guess all reflex can be put in bulb mode? GullRaDriel said: I would go with a 550D ;-p Really? It does cost quite a bit more, but i'm not sure if you're joking. miran said: There's also one thing you should know about dpreview.com. They're extremely biased towards Canon & Nikon and against Pentax, Olympus and especially Sony. That's because Canon and Nikon are sponsoring them. Basically they're paid to write better reviews for Canon and Nikon products. Before committing to something I'd ask for a second opinion. That's why i'm asking. [FMC Studios] - [Caries Field] - [Ctris] - [Pman] - [Chess for allegroites] |
Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Quote: but set it to bulb mode I always wondered why "time exposure" was represented by a 'B'! They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
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