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my first bike
Ben Delacob
Member #6,141
August 2005
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Congrats on the bike Matthew! Starting with ~250 or less is definitely the way to go.

That said, bigger bikes still do have some merit on the freeway. A really light bike will be more difficult with crosswinds at high speeds. It's also useful to have the option of accelerating forward instead of only falling back when a car does something stupid like begin to change lanes without seeing you.

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BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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Up here, you need to take a written test to get your permit. Then you need to log a set minimum of drive time and take a 5 hour clasroom safety course then pass a road test to get a license. If you're under 18 and within 6 months of getting your permit, it will be a provisional license for that remainder of time. Afterwards its a junior license until you're 18 (17 if you took a driver education course at school or whatever). But they're changing the laws here to make it more strict, not sure on the specifics though.

Anyhow, once you have a driver's license, it again takes a short written test to get a motorcycle permit. Then you can take a 3 day training course (like Matthew did), and upon successful completion, you're given a class M designation on your license, which lets you drive a bike.

It's different if you're going for only your class M license, but I have no clue how that works.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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So it sounds like I'm now considering a 2008 Honda CBR-125R (new from dealership)[1], a 2008/2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R (maybe used if the current buyer falls through; otherwise, maybe new if the dealership gives me a number I can handle), or a 2008 Yamaha V-Star 250 (used, lady driven). I haven't talked to the Yamaha owner yet so I'm not sure if the bike has been sold yet. I still need to check with the Kawasaki dealership to see if they have any 250Rs and whether or not the price is doable for me. I also still need to get my M1 license and check with my insurance company on rates for the aforementioned bikes. :P

References

  1. It's sounding like it won't handle the highway well, but fortunately the First Nation reserve that I pass through has taken control of the old highway and dropped speed limits down to 70 km/h max. so if I had to I could always take that route to the city.
Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Do you buy everything I do? ???

I made a bet with somebody who shall not be named that you specifically would look into buying a bike as a direct result of this thread. I won. ;D

Do not buy anything less than 250 if you ever plan on riding out of town. My Honda Rebel is the bare minimum I would ever want to take out on the highway. It's fine on flat stretches, and can easily do (more than) the speed limit, but up hills it maxes out at 55-60 mph full throttle (maybe 65 if there's no wind).

But before you do anything, call your local colleges and see what kind of courses are available. It looks like the CSC sponsors things in Canada. You may be able to get a license via that before you even have to buy a bike.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Well if you're looking for training and a deal on insurance, take a course with the CAA or (in alberta) the AMA. In some cases it can chop your insurance in half.

I made a bet with somebody who shall not be named that you specifically would look into buying a bike as a direct result of this thread. I won. ;D

I figured you and Yves talk regularly. Probably the only thing that would make him rub off on you so much. ;D

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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Do you buy everything I do? ???

I made a bet with somebody who shall not be named that you specifically would look into buying a bike as a direct result of this thread. I won. ;D

Yeah, I was going to comment on that earlier, but didn't want to draw attention to it. :P Sorry for always stealing your thunder. :-X Before your thread, I had assumed that decent motorcycles were too expensive for me still and never gave it any thought. It was on the maybe sometime in the future list. You showed me that it might be feasible now.

It may not happen still. I haven't fully committed to it. I have to see how feasible it is first (before buying a bike I need to see what my insurance company is going to do to me; then I need to see how hard it's going to hit my savings).

Do not buy anything less than 250 if you ever plan on riding out of town. My Honda Rebel is the bare minimum I would ever want to take out on the highway. It's fine on flat stretches, and can easily do (more than) the speed limit, but up hills it maxes out at 55-60 mph full throttle (maybe 65 if there's no wind).

Yeah, I've gotten this impression. My dad, who used to have a 125 cc bike in his younger years, said the same thing. Get a 250 if I'm going to get one because smaller is too slow and bigger is too fast. However, I don't technically need to ride on any roads faster than 80 km/h (about 50 mph) so I could probably get away with a 125 (there are two highways that run in parallel, one a replacement for the other, and the other now has severely reduced speed limits). I'm in the process of debating the money right now (which bike is the best that I can afford, if any).

But before you do anything, call your local colleges and see what kind of courses are available. It looks like the CSC sponsors things in Canada. You may be able to get a license via that before you even have to buy a bike.

The community college definitely has a motorcycle training course available. I plan to give the college a call on Monday to see if I can register for it. The Honda dealership representative told me that it's backed up like 3 months though. The CBR125R allegedly has a rebate on until the end of March because the fiscal year for Honda ends March 31st and they're trying to move the old stock. If I wait I'll apparently be paying more. Similarly, the used Yamaha will probably go pretty fast, if it hasn't gone already. The used Ninja 250R already has a buyer. :( I can wait and see what comes up or I can rush into a purchase and hope it works out. On Monday I also plan to visit the Kawasaki dealership to price up a 250R through them.

I'm currently studying the official MTO motorcycle handbook (debating whether I should buy another copy of the official drivers handbook too[1]). I'm considering going in to take the written test sometime next week (maybe even Monday). If you're suggesting that I could wave the fee by going through the training course then I'm not sure it's worth waiting. I definitely intend to take the course though.

I'm a little concerned about having to pay again to upgrade to an Enhanced Drivers License if I do get my M1... :-/ That will be annoying because I just got it last year.

In other news, I just discovered "counter-steering" (in the motorcycle sense) or push steering. :-/ At first I thought the handbook was wrong, but after a little bit of YouTubing the bikes I'm looking at, I stumbled upon a demonstration video that explained it. Once he said it, and demoed it, and didn't die, I figured there must be something to it and started to ask Google. :-/ Mental note: listen to the handbook above intuition.

References

  1. We're also tested on that and it's possible I'll be asked about signs or situations that I've forgotten about and don't encounter in the area. I guess it's been something like 6 or 7 years since I last studied it.
piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
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Make sure you bockel up your Helmets. it be a shame to lose any allegro members to carelesness on the streets.

I can vouch for Helmets bsave lives mine save my live when a hit and run female car drive ran a light and side swiped me at the intersation.

if it was not for the helmet being on realy good.

the force woule have make it come off and the back of my head would be like a smashed water mellon. not because any thing rolled over it. but because of the shear force i hit the groud. my back hit first then my head was following like a sling shot. i tried to stop the back of my head from hiting the pathment by stiffing my neck. but it was not enough the the impack rang trough the back the helment like some kinda of kunfu attack. right at the mounment i was like daaaaaaaaaammm. be cause i was dead sure the force would haave crushed my head if it was not for the helment.

from that day that was my favorit helmet. i was so mad when on a diffrent day i was playing pool at a club and some pick up my helmet by mistake and left me with thiers.

just remeber bike acedent aint not joke pratice safety and look out for the stupid people in the cars

wow
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BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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Make a thread about buying a house next, and see what happens. ;D

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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BAF said:

Make a thread about buying a house next, and see what happens. ;D

You know, I could use a house... ;)

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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I think Matthew needs some B.C. Hydro.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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{"name":"bike.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/0\/b\/0ba83a45ccc0aac61af46583590129e2.jpg","w":500,"h":297,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/0\/b\/0ba83a45ccc0aac61af46583590129e2"}bike.jpg

The only way Trump is going to be involved in a landslide is if the land surrounding the White House collapses into the Earth's core. -- bamccaig

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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Quote:

So that's where those extra bolts were supposed to go? Shoot....

jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
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bamccaig said:

In other news, I just discovered "counter-steering"

This bugs me to no end. How people have to "discover" something that happens naturally?

You don't deserve my sig.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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jhuuskon said:

This bugs me to no end. How people have to "discover" something that happens naturally?

How else do you describe them finding out about the natural phenomenon?

Old joke:
Son: "Dad, is it true that Isaac Newton discovered the law of gravity?"
Dad: "Yes son, it's true."
Son: "Well, what did we do before the law was passed?"

The only way Trump is going to be involved in a landslide is if the land surrounding the White House collapses into the Earth's core. -- bamccaig

Steve Terry
Member #1,989
March 2002
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{"name":"Big_Wheel_Pic-DRV2-PCZ.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/b\/f\/bfb4365022cf9852b8a866623de2eb32.jpg","w":396,"h":383,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/b\/f\/bfb4365022cf9852b8a866623de2eb32"}Big_Wheel_Pic-DRV2-PCZ.jpg
... NOTHING beats my first bike ;D

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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[edit] zomg

The only way Trump is going to be involved in a landslide is if the land surrounding the White House collapses into the Earth's core. -- bamccaig

jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
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How else do you describe them finding out about the natural phenomenon?

I don't mean it in that sense. What I mean is that it's the only way you can turn the bike at speed and it occurs naturally, subconsciously. You don't have to specifically learn it. (Perhaps with the exception that it isn't obvious that by using conscious effort for countersteering one can manouever the bike quicker at speeds.)

Anyone who has ever been on even a bicycle countersteers subconsciously.

You don't deserve my sig.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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jhuuskon said:

I don't mean it in that sense. What I mean is that it's the only way you can turn the bike at speed and it occurs naturally, subconsciously. You don't have to specifically learn it. (Perhaps with the exception that it isn't obvious that by using conscious effort for countersteering one can manouever the bike quicker at speeds.)

Anyone who has ever been on even a bicycle countersteers subconsciously.

I've never ridden a motorcycle before. I don't think I've ever done it on a bicycle. I'm almost certain I haven't. If I have then it was so subconscious that I didn't even know I was doing it.

jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
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Have you ever dodged a sudden obstacle on a bicycle? Yeah, you've countersteered.

You don't deserve my sig.

Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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What is countersteering?

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Went to see the Yamaha V-Star today. :) Coincidentally, the seller lives right down the road... :o It looks and sounds good, not that I would know the difference. It also looks a little bit small though (size-wise). I'm not sure. My dad seems to think it's the best option. I'm leaning towards the Kawasaki, but the dealership confirmed today that it'll be $5000 + tax + dealership fees: probably close to $6000 to get it off the lot, and they don't even have any to look at. I'll have to put a down payment on it for them to have one shipped from the warehouse before I can even see it.

The V-Star is $4000 "firm". I have to stop by the Yamaha dealership tomorrow to see what a new one would cost. I just noticed there is a 2007 CBR125R in the classifieds for $2000. I'm rather torn. My dad seems to be pretty excited about me getting a motorcycle now too, even though he's trying to fight it. :P I don't think he approves of a "crotch-rocket" though, even if it is a sorely underpowered one. The 250R looks plenty fast without being insane. That's why I'm leaning towards it... It also looks racer cool, but then the V-Star has the almost rebel look to it. :-/

The seller of the V-Star (who is a chick, and a hot one at that... :o) said that insurance would probably be around $600. Or maybe that was her (with full coverage). Tomorrow I plan to stop at the insurance company for some quotes which will probably influence my decision most. If I can insure the Kawasaki without killing my savings then I might just spring for it... They seem to have decent resaleability if you keep them clean and well maintained (though I guess that's true for all 3 of the bikes I'm looking at).

What is countersteering?

In terms of motorcycles, based on my purely theoretical understanding, it's where you push the handlebars the opposite direction of where you want to turn (it's also called push-steering). This causes the bike's weight to shift, causing it to lean. You then center the handlebars again and you're turning! Or something like that.

Quote:

When initiating a turn, you must apply forward pressure to the
handlebar on the side that is in the direction of the turn: to turn
right, push the right-hand handlebar; to turn left, push the left-hand
handlebar.

Quote:

Another way to remember how to counter-steer: if you want to turn
right, start by pushing the right-hand handlebar; if you want to turn
left, start by pushing on the left-hand handlebar.

jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
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FFS. Get a used Suzuki SV650s. They're cheap to buy, insure and maintain, foolproof, and in five years when you've finally outgrown it (instead of the five days it takes to outgrow a CBR125 or a 250cc "custom") you can sell it without much lost money. Also they come with 75 horsepower and an rotating right handlebar so you don't have to stress the bike to its limits just to keep up with traffic.

Also, they don't sound like sewing machines, which is a plus considering that if you want the racer looks, you need some sound to go with it or people will confuse you with a 16 years old girl.

edit2: My opinion: If you really want to go with less than 600cc (as stupid as it is), get an older 2-stroke. They're cheap any way you look at them[1] and at least they can keep up with traffic.

edit3: fixed a typo.

References

  1. inb4 pistons: 2-stroke street bikes don't wear nearly as much as dirt bikes. The weekly piston replacement thing only concerns race trim dirt bikes that extract around twice the amount of power from the same size engine.

You don't deserve my sig.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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sowing machine:

{"name":"a-357.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/3\/1337f8701935e5cd5002c60bc249655f.jpg","w":611,"h":343,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/3\/1337f8701935e5cd5002c60bc249655f"}a-357.jpg

sewing machine:

{"name":"janome-dc3050.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/0\/9\/09ec920acf6caf89b7215b180b2d77b5.jpg","w":298,"h":298,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/0\/9\/09ec920acf6caf89b7215b180b2d77b5"}janome-dc3050.jpg

The only way Trump is going to be involved in a landslide is if the land surrounding the White House collapses into the Earth's core. -- bamccaig

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

I wonder if its similar to how I steer when I'm riding with no hands. Of course I mostly just use my own weight to handle the turning. Lean the bike way over, and balance atop to keep steady. I can manage > 90deg turns :D probably not very impressive, though I could do it even when I was 260lbs, of course the bike I have is a pretty beefy mountain bike, its rather heavy. Have to say though, you need a lot more room to turn if you don't actually turn the handle bars, or be able to balance with the pedals almost touching the ground, even then though, I find I take up half the road doing so on a regular pedal bike.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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jhuuskon said:

FFS. Get a used Suzuki SV650s. They're cheap to buy,...

Better than CAD$6000 cheap (new)?

jhuuskon said:

...insure...

For a newly licensed rider under the age of 25? I've heard that insurance for a 125cc or 250cc is already going to suck for me, at least until I turn 25 and get fully licensed. Apparently you're now forced to insure motorcycles all year round, for whatever stupid reason. On top of that, I also have to keep a car running and insured so that I have a bad weather/winter vehicle.

jhuuskon said:

Also they come with 75 horsepower and an rotating right handlebar so you don't have to stress the bike to its limits just to keep up with traffic.

From what I've been able to find, the SV650 does 0-60 mph (0-100 km/h) in about 4 seconds. The quarter mile in 12 seconds at 170 km/h (100 mph), and it'll apparently do 208 km/h (130 mph), give or take (there are differing models and obviously lots of model years so who knows what these specs apply to). Considering the fastest road in the country that I'm aware of is about 110 km/h I think that's way overkill. Most of Northern Ontario is rural with poorly maintained roads. There are lots of twists and turns and very few efficient straight line highways in Ontario. You don't want to be on two wheels that go from 0-60 in 4 seconds. Certainly not for your first fucking bike.

The Kawasaki Ninja 250R goes from 0-60 in under 8 seconds, the quarter mile in 16 seconds, and has a top speed of 154 km/h (95 mph). That's plenty for a first street motorcycle. It'll more than keep up with traffic and it hopefully won't even kill me doing it.

The Yamaha is probably much slower than that, but it's a cruiser, not a street bike. Apparently it's top speed is around 136 km/h (85 mph), which again is plenty to keep up with traffic.

I'm all for fast and loud and cool, but I'm also for being conservative and taking things one step at a time. There should be opportunities to get a bigger bike in the future. The smaller bikes seem to hold their value really well so in a year or two when I decide I want something bigger I can hopefully sell whatever I do get and make most of my money back.



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