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My new programming language.
Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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You can tell that after two weeks?
Seriously?

What did you expect? For thousands of people to go "woa, that's fantastic, best thing ever!" and give you feedback ten times a day?

It's the internet. No one cares what you do, and those few that do probably won't tell you that they do.

There is only one reason why you should consider developing your own programming language: because that's what you want to do.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Why does axilmar spell canceled like an American, but BAF spells it like a foreigner?

Evert said:

There is only one reason why you should consider developing your own programming language: because that's what you want to do.

Maybe he meant his own lack of interest?

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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Hey, what do you know, the British have one spelling that actually seems correct. 'Canceled' looks wrong to me.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Basic rule learned in first grade spelling class: when the accent is on the first syllable of a two syllable word, you don't double the consonant.

axilmar
Member #1,204
April 2001

Evert said:

You can tell that after two weeks?
Seriously?

What did you expect? For thousands of people to go "woa, that's fantastic, best thing ever!" and give you feedback ten times a day?

It's the internet. No one cares what you do, and those few that do probably won't tell you that they do.

If, in a site full of programmers, the interest is so low, then why should I do it?

Frankly, I expected a little bit more interest.

Quote:

There is only one reason why you should consider developing your own programming language: because that's what you want to do.

There is no point if programmers are not interested in it.

Maybe he meant his own lack of interest?

I am interested in it, but it doesn't really matter if no one else is interested in it. It's not that it is a programming challenge, it's just that if no one is interested in it, then why bother?

Quote:

Why does axilmar spell canceled like an American, but BAF spells it like a foreigner?

Because the Firefox spellchecker suggested it and I couldn't be bothered fixing it.
I always wrote "cancelled", it seems correct that way.

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
avatar

axilmar said:

If, in a site full of programmers, the interest is so low, then why should I do it?

Frankly, I expected a little bit more interest.

First of all, not everyone here is a programmer. Second of all, not everyone who is a programmer is interested in yet-another obscure programming language - especially one that is not even available yet and for which it remains to be seen whether the person developing it will actually be able to finish it and get a working compiler.
So at best, only a subset of people here would be interested. Of those who are interested, what did you expect? 24/7 interest in your project? Most people have lives and other interests as well. You go, "geez, that's cool" and move on to other things that interest you. You return in a week, maybe two weeks to see how things have been going.

Quote:

There is no point if programmers are not interested in it.

Yes, I'm sure people started asking where the blog and the language went because they didn't really think it was interesting.
Again, what do you expect? If you announce something like this you'll get a flurry of interest, then silence. Interest will start up again when you release a preliminary or early version of your project.

The "lack of interest by other people" sounds like a lazy and cheap excuse to me.

Arvidsson
Member #4,603
May 2004
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Smells like monday to me.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Evert said:

The "lack of interest by other people" sounds like a lazy and cheap excuse to me.

Indeed.

If I stopped working on my stuff because other people didn't seem to be interested, I'd never get ANYTHING done. One reason I'm trying to get this silly game of mine done. To prove that I can actually finish something. I KNOW I could do it if I tried, the problem is the trying. Most times, once I realize I can do the thing I'm trying to do, my motivation and energy goes away. This time the challenge is finishing the project to a satisfactory level. Tedious, but hey I won't know if I can do it till I do it ;D

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

verthex
Member #11,340
September 2009
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If I stopped working on my stuff because other people didn't seem to be interested, I'd never get ANYTHING done.

Lately I've been programming routines for quantum optics/field mechanics and not only is it impossible to make sense out of the math involved and the physical theory underlying it, but the complexity of the code involved as well, plus no one cares about my work, although I never even mention to people much. So I don't think making a game or any software should depend on the people you want to cater to.

8-)

axilmar
Member #1,204
April 2001

Evert said:

First of all, not everyone here is a programmer. Second of all, not everyone who is a programmer is interested in yet-another obscure programming language - especially one that is not even available yet and for which it remains to be seen whether the person developing it will actually be able to finish it and get a working compiler.
So at best, only a subset of people here would be interested. Of those who are interested, what did you expect? 24/7 interest in your project? Most people have lives and other interests as well. You go, "geez, that's cool" and move on to other things that interest you. You return in a week, maybe two weeks to see how things have been going.

I did not expect a 24/7 interest in my project. I expected a little more interest than the interest shown so far. I do not think it was that obscure, as I gave plenty of examples both in grammar and features.

I thought that since since almost everyone here is a programmer, the interest in a tool better than what they currently would interest them. Alas, I was mistaken.

Quote:

Again, what do you expect? If you announce something like this you'll get a flurry of interest, then silence. Interest will start up again when you release a preliminary or early version of your project.

Perhaps my interest in languages is more then the average guy then - because if a new and interesting language was designed, I would follow the developments every day and also try to propose my own ideas based on my own needs and experience. But that's just me. It seems other programmers only care about the output of their work and not so much about the tools.

Quote:

The "lack of interest by other people" sounds like a lazy and cheap excuse to me.

Not really. It just that it was a bit of a let down.

To prove that I can actually finish something.

I can do it, what's the point if no one cares? as I said, it's not about the technical challenge. It's also not solving my own problems...I can easily write tones of code in C++, as I have done in the last decade. It's the industry's problem. But this is a lengthy discussion, perhaps for another time.

verthex said:

So I don't think making a game or any software should depend on the people you want to cater to.

Perhaps not if you are doing it for your own pleasure.

Tomoso
Member #3,128
January 2003
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Concepts can be interesting, but if we were all planning to program a bit of software with a lanaguage that is still only an idea, we might as well just use peusdo code and use our imagination to compile it.

Lazy Noob - Blog

verthex
Member #11,340
September 2009
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axilmar said:

Perhaps not if you are doing it for your own pleasure.

Nope, not having much fun doing it.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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axilmar said:

I can do it, what's the point if no one cares?

I realized a while back that even though I knew I could do it, I never actually did. So really, could I? I won't actually know till I do.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Never even bother starting a project unless a) your own self interest will keep you motivated or b) you can make a lot of money with it.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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b) you can make a lot of money with it.

Thats one problem I'm having right now. I have my doubts I'll be able to make much off this game, if any. We'll see.

But most of my motivations is to see it through. I have some other project ideas that might have a better chance at making money, but I figure I should start small, this current game is rather simple compared to the other ideas. Sort of a stepping stone.

Also, I learn by doing. If I don't do, I don't learn. So yeah. It'll be good experience for future projects.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Peter Wang
Member #23
April 2000

axilmar said:

I thought that since since almost everyone here is a programmer, the interest in a tool better than what they currently would interest them. Alas, I was mistaken.

That's a bit arrogant.

I didn't bother to read this thread until today. Programming languages are a dime a dozen. Programmers know this. What's to set your toy project apart from the crowd?

axilmar said:

What I'd like to create is a C-like programming language but with all the bells and whistles of modern programming languages: garbage collection, a nice static type system, support object oriented programming with interfaces, support for functional programming, templates, Unicode etc, but without the problems that plug C++ or D.

Oh, another imperative programming language. Without an implementation. Next.

verthex
Member #11,340
September 2009
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a) your own self interest will keep you motivated or b) you can make a lot of money with it.

I guess you could've just said

"Never even bother starting a project unless you're a capitalist" ;)

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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I'd add a third catagory

c) You're a glory hound. (Open Source people?)

You might argue that glory hounds have to enjoy building whatever it is in the first place or burn out before it's finished, but the same argument could be made toward making money.

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

verthex
Member #11,340
September 2009
avatar

You might argue that glory hounds have to enjoy building whatever it is in the first place or burn out before it's finished, but the same argument could be made toward making money.

I wonder though, where would the makers of Tetris fall into. I suppose most of you don't know the story behind Tetris, but basically the makers were not allowed to export the game and make profit in their own country because of communism during the USSR. I guess they were glory hounds.

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
avatar

verthex said:

"Never even bother starting a project unless you're a capitalist"

Or you have enough interest in the project to keep yourself motivated. Can anyone read around here? :o

c) You're a glory hound. (Open Source people?)

Most open source is very selfish in nature, generally the projects are created for personal interest.

verthex said:

I wonder though, where would the makers of Tetris fall into. I suppose most of you don't know the story behind Tetris, but basically the makers were not allowed to export the game and make profit in their own country because of communism during the USSR. I guess they were glory hounds.

Hmm, seems like self interest to me.

Dustin Dettmer
Member #3,935
October 2003
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Glory can get you jobs (and hence money).

verthex
Member #11,340
September 2009
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BAF said:

Hmm, seems like self interest to me.

Well, that too! Except you may have trouble understanding that in communism, that cannot exist either...

According to the government that is, that's the problem with China, no self interest or privacy allowed there.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

Someone who claims to act selflessly or altruistically is lying, to others and quite possibly himself.

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck.”

― Robert A. Heinlein



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