What's outside a donut?

What's outside a donut?

Schyfis

Member #9,752

May 2008

Johan Halmén said:

A guy walks accidentally into the kitchen of Arnold's Donuts and sees a big fat guy making jelly rolls. The guy grabs a chunk of dough with his filthy hands, rolls it against his huge, bare, sweaty belly and places it on the oven plate.
"Eow, after seeing that I'll never eat a jelly roll again!" says our guy. "I wouldn't dare to see him making donuts!"

And thus god created the universe.

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bamccaig

Member #7,536

July 2006

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HardTranceFan

Member #7,317

June 2006

schyfis said:

And thus god created the universe.

Homer Simpson is god?

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Bob Keane

Member #7,342

June 2006

HardTraceFan said:

Homer Simpson is god?

Did you know Stephen Hawking stole the theory of a donut shaped universe from Homer?

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Thomas Fjellstrom

Member #476

June 2000

Bob Keane said:

Did you know Stephen Hawking stole the theory of a donut shaped universe from Homer?

Probably did it when he guest stared.

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Arthur Kalliokoski

Second in Command

February 2005

Thomas Fjellstrom said:

guest stared.

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They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Archon

Member #4,195

January 2004

If you were right at the edge of this universe (moving with its expansion), what would happen if you tried poking through the edge?

Johan Halmén

Member #1,550

September 2001

Probably something similar than if you moved with 1 m/s and dropped your speed with 2 m/s.

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Tobias Dammers

Member #2,604

August 2002

Dizzy Egg said:

How can there be....nothing? You mean like the nothing that is eating up the world in the never ending story?

No. Much more nothing-ish.
What's at the end of a circular road? Not even nothing, because the end itself isn't there; this doesn't mean that the circular road is endless.
Similarly, questions like "what's outside the universe", "what happened before the Big Bang", and such are meaningless.

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Neil Black

Member #7,867

October 2006

Tobias Dammers said:

Similarly, questions like "what's outside the universe", "what happened before the Big Bang", and such are meaningless.

What about, "What is the universe expanding into?"

alethiophile

Member #9,349

December 2007

Imagine a circular road that's growing. In the road's (1d) space, it's not expanding into anything.

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Arthur Kalliokoski

Second in Command

February 2005

Neil Black said:

What about, "What is the universe expanding into?"

Wouldn't an equivalent way of thinking about it be that everything in the universe is shrinking while the universe itself stays the same size?

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Evert

Member #794

November 2000

Neil Black said:

What about, "What is the universe expanding into?"

Yes, that one is equally meaningless.
When you blow up a balloon, what does the surface area of the balloon expand in?^[1]

References

Its volume is obviously expanding against the ambient air, but its surface isn't.

Thomas Fjellstrom

Member #476

June 2000

That doesn't explain what the entire object is expanding into though.

Arthur Kalliokoski

Second in Command

February 2005

You are all blowing my mind! What is my mind expanding into?

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

BAF

Member #2,981

December 2002

Tobias Dammers said:

No. Much more nothing-ish. What's at the end of a circular road? Not even nothing, because the end itself isn't there; this doesn't mean that the circular road is endless. Similarly, questions like "what's outside the universe", "what happened before the Big Bang", and such are meaningless.

Umm, "what's outside the circular road?" would be perfectly valid, so how is it not with the universe? Either you have a good analogy there or you dont.

Evert said:

When you blow up a balloon, what does the surface area of the balloon expand in?

Nice word game there. When you blow up a balloon, it expands into the air. Who mentioned surface area?

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Thomas Fjellstrom

Member #476

June 2000

BAF said:

Nice word game there. When you blow up a balloon, it expands into the air. Who mentioned surface area?

In this example, its like the universe.. The universe lives on (or is the surface...) the surface of the donut/toroid. So its the surface they are talking about...

Arthur Kalliokoski

Second in Command

February 2005

You're all applying the "intuitive" Euclidian lessons you learned as a knee-baby while playing in the yard into the entire universe. You sound like "Why can't we sail off the edge of the world, Columbus?"

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

BAF

Member #2,981

December 2002

I'm not saying you can sail off the edge of the world, or leave the universe. But if it is expanding, it has to be expanding into something.

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Arthur Kalliokoski

Second in Command

February 2005

"Expanding into something" implies there is space (more universe) to expand into.

[EDIT]
There was a PBS show a few years ago about "membranes" that somehow created universes when two of them touched, as the area of contact expanded, the universe grew. This is extremely 2d sounding though. OTOH, maybe you could consider that the "edge of the universe" is merely the farthest part that has "announced" itself to us.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

BAF

Member #2,981

December 2002

Hey, I'm not one of those crazy physicists who said it was expanding in the first place.

The real question here is if the universe is finite or infinite.

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Arthur Kalliokoski

Second in Command

February 2005

"That-a Christopher Columbus, he is-a crazy, no? He-a says the world, she is a round, and-a we can't sail off the edge! So he thinks we can-a sail around and around forever? It's not infinite!"

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

BAF

Member #2,981

December 2002

You're totally missing the point.

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Arthur Kalliokoski

Second in Command

February 2005

You can't poke at the edge of the universe (or get to the other side) any more than you can sail off the edge of the world. That's the point.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

BAF

Member #2,981

December 2002

I (personally) was talking about expansion, not the edge. I never said there was an edge that you could cross.

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