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Who Needs Direction?
MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
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Well, if this gets off the ground (Key word, if), I can provide SVN repository for whatever. If it's only meant to be for a short time. For long terms projects, use SF or any SF clones (like the one OpenLayer is hosted on)

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OnlineCop
Member #7,919
October 2006
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Matthew Leverton said:

Don't you see that any detail left to a group will never get decided?

Exactly why there needs to be a team leader.

Matthew Leverton said:

The only group decision should be to elect a team leader.

Who here would be interested in being a Team Leader?

I'm in.

I figure that if the team leader calls all the shots, the entire "this game is fun (or not)" rests on that person's shoulders. In the gaming industry, some games just plain suck, and I blame the project manager for that. Although the game publisher checks in often and suggests areas of improvement, it's the manager that calls the shots, makes the final decisions, cuts some aspects and emphasizes others.

So if the project is doomed to fail, at least the next time there's a group competition, you know who you DON'T want for your team leader... ;D

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Quote:

Exactly why there needs to be a team leader.

Yup, but too bad electing a team leader is a group decision, which can only end in failure.

Team leaders work in the real world because they are paid to be the leaders and you are paid to be the monkey. Out here, in the Internet, we all think our ideas are the best and will argue non-stop in circles until we get our way the thread is closed.

For a group project to be successful on the Internet, somebody needs to step forward and write a bunch of code and get it all working to build up interest. Now he is the leader because he has proven to have what it takes to get stuff done. He doesn't have cash to offer like in the real world, but he does have a substantial code base to build upon. People like to be part of something successful.

All that said, I do think that a team competition like amarillion mentioned can work if it is a very small project with a short deadline. But of course, such projects don't really need multiple people...

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Matthew Leverton said:

The reason group projects work in the real world...

What do you mean group projects work in the real world? :-X The failure rate is extremely high, even in the corporate world. The main reason for this, however, is poor planning and lack of organization. Somebody needs to nail down the ideas before a code repository is even on the drawing board. Figure out what you're making first. Then pull ideas in to work out the details. The code, graphics, and sound come last. And don't set a deadline until you know what you're developing. That's a recipe for failure.

I'd be interested in participating, but I'm not sure what help I would be. :P Especially without knowing what exactly will be developed.

MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
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I view myself in a position where I would be of no help, other than setting up a SVN repo or two as that's a few minutes out of my day, unlike the hours (most likely as it's a game project) other work would need.

---
Febreze (and other air fresheners actually) is just below perfumes/colognes, and that's just below dead skunks in terms of smells that offend my nose.
MiquelFire.red
If anyone is of the opinion that there is no systemic racism in America, they're either blind, stupid, or racist too. ~Edgar Reynaldo

Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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I nominate 23 as our team leader.

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OnlineCop
Member #7,919
October 2006
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I'll second 23.

alethiophile
Member #9,349
December 2007
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23 gets my vote, or my support, however we decide this. Also, this may seem obvious, but I've seen group projects that died because they didn't get this: Team leader is arbitrator and final decider, not sole input to the decision.

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Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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I'm down with that.

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MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
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I think everyone here knows that.

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Febreze (and other air fresheners actually) is just below perfumes/colognes, and that's just below dead skunks in terms of smells that offend my nose.
MiquelFire.red
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Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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[nvmd]

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Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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I'm in, and I'll also throw in my support for 23 as team leader.

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Quote:

We did a team competition [amarillion.bafsoft.net] once with four teams. It was moderately successful, so it is possible.

No doubt, but I wish you had some screenshots there so we could see at a glance if there were any similarities in theme of gameplay. See what a group finds easier than an individual. Maybe they're all "endless" games, like Tetris.

Flattered by the "nomination". :) Okay, let's pretend I'm leading this; I'll throw out a "vision" and we'll see what the comments are. I'm partial to the quarter view adventure style game (think Link to the Past). I don't feel like doing a platformer since I'm still working on The Mighty Stoopid and I'd just be recycling code. :P Keeping within a realistic goal, there should be, say, three dungeons and then a final dungeon. Lots to do in between; like most adventure games, some mini-quests to actually get to the dungeons. Short game but we can try to pack a fair amount of interaction and an intriguing plot in there. So what do we need:

- setting
- plot and characters
- rough map
- ideas for flow of game/quests
- dungeon design
- enemy design
- player interaction, weapons, items, etc.
- graphics and sound (low priority for now)

I don't know how teams usually delegate code duties, but we need the usual; tilemap engine, collision detection, NPCs to converse with, objects to interact with, a way to track quest points, handling death/zoning/saving/options, in-game cut scene, all that jazz. Plus name some stuff I missed. Anyone want to grab one of those and start brainstorming?

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Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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Top-down sounds awesome.

I like the idea, though I think it needs to be scaled back a bit. For example, 3 dungeons, an overworld, and final dungeon would be enough to work on and manage, so how about we scrap the side quests and keep NPCs to a bare minimum, like a 1 window popup when you walk within radius?

Basically just simplify for the sake of "get 'er done".

The next question in my mind is the map format?:

1. equally spaced tiles
Or
2. A list of objects arbitrarily placed with rectangular bboxes.
Or
3. A mix of the two, background graphics are tile-based but physical objects, blocks, stones, are arbitrarily placed.
Or
4. Something else

I vote for #3.

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23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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3 would be wise. Maybe. Normally I would just make everything tile based though. Maybe some things will need to be separate objects by design, but that will be dictated by gameplay requirements. Clearly tilemap-everything would be easiest, so we'll do it if we can. That's a page 8 topic though. :)

Quote:

For example, 3 dungeons, an overworld, and final dungeon would be enough to work on and manage, so how about we scrap the side quests and keep NPCs to a bare minimum, like a 1 window popup when you walk within radius?

Once a system is implements to handle NPCs and quest chains, implementing new quests is trivial (kill this monster, find this herb, talk to that guy, bring me materials to make this thing, find key for door, etc.) so there's nothing keeping us from making a relatively interactive world. I'm all for "get 'er done" but let's not be lazy. :)

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Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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Ok. I've never done NPCs, quest chains, and scripting so that all sounds like the complicated stuff to me. Everything else looks very doable on my end, but those three in particular intimidate me.

Here's mah plot proposal, I'll just throw this out here:

Title: Z-Strand
Premise: The overworld is a space station (think ds9 but more federation) where there are shops, people, places to go, etc. Your mission is to go to some teleport rooms on the station, each room ultimately takes you to the dungeons, where you have to do the level and locate... a strand of bacteria... once you locate all three (the three bars of the "Z", I guess N-Strand would work to, that would be in your map/item screen... anyway) then you open the super whatever and it takes you to the last level. Each dungeon can be completely different... maybe the teleports take you to different time periods for example.

The reason I like a space station is because it'll take us out of the days of yore which is typical for an adventure game, and I think that would be refreshing. Plus we could do cool effects like teleports and lasers and stuff like that.

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23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Yeah, I was thinking futuristic setting too. No time travel though; there's lots of time to jump a shark later. :)

Okay, space station/colony for main setting. We could have a main colony and an overworld with smaller colonies. Dungeons could be satellites, caverns, power plants, hidden bad guy base on an asteroid, alien craft/ruins, etc. Lots of variety. Travel can be on foot or with a shuttle, maybe a teleporter can be opened up end game. Any one of these locations can be in space, on a planet, on a moon, or it can all stay "local". We could have a military man investigating some mutiny in secret (colonies don't get disrupted too much by that), we could have some lower officer who ends up saving (most of) the colony from an alien invasion, we could have something more personal to the main character.

This is going to give us a lot of freedom as far as weapons, obstacles, enemies, etc. go too.

Anyone want to have at a general plot outline? Should we make it a bit "cartoony" (like Link to the past was) or go for something more serious in tone and graphics?

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Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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Quote:

Dungeons could be satellites, caverns, power plants, hidden bad guy base on an asteroid, alien craft/ruins, etc. Lots of variety. Travel can be on foot or with a shuttle, maybe a teleporter can be opened up end game. Any one of these locations can be in space, on a planet, on a moon, or it can all stay "local".

I like that.

I'm thinking cartoony but serious, like color and tone from Titan A.E. (some attached screenshots) but rounder and more bubbly characters like windwaker - Of course the variety would saturate the color palette here and there.

I think everybody else is asleep :P

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23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Yeah, I'm putting this to bed until tomorrow. Kinda defeats the "team effort" idea if it's just you and me. 8-)

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Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Trezker
Member #1,739
December 2001
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What? Two people is not a team?

I think everyone else is so much in awe of your excellent ideas that they feel ashamed to post their own crappy ideas.

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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The main thing is not feeling ashamed of crappy idea, it's feeling ashamed because you are not able to translate them to working code.

Motivate people, join them !

PS:

I would have joined with pleasure, but some few week ago I decided to continue my abandoned project, so I set up a new project and I am cannibalizing my old old code, creating a to-do list, ect...

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CursedTyrant
Member #7,080
April 2006
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Well, I won't be throwing any ideas at you today, since I have to study for tomorrow's exam, but so far everything seems fine.

As for the tilemap, I'd go with #3.

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Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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I'm liking it so far. One question I'd like to throw out there:

Turn-based combat(Final Fantasy style) or real-time(Zelda style)?

I vote for real time, because it's more fun.

OnlineCop
Member #7,919
October 2006
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I'm in. I would have posted earlier, but my internet's been up and down all day yesterday.

I vote for real-time so you can see the enemies and choose to avoid them (if possible).

I'm trying to make some preliminary engine code that we can start and build up on. It's not done yet, but if someone else has an engine, or some code, that they're writing for this, we can let 23 decide on which to use.

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Yes, real-time. That's why I drew parallels to Zelda and not Final Fantasy. :) Just now you'll be using a gun and not a sword.

I'm not too worried about code just yet; we're still in design phase. I would like to use C++ for it personally, but if the people most willing to contribute code prefer C, we're probably stuck with that.

First thing I'd like to be hearing is story ideas. We need something that follows the game flow through 3 dungeons to a final dungeon, and gives you some objectives in between out in the overworld. Is it just 3 arbitrary levels before the final level? Do we go the Zelda route of "collect three things from these dungeons to open the final dungeon" right from the outset? That would make for one simple story. :) After that we should hammer some details like what items or upgrades you get along the way, and then start mapping this out to various locales and get an idea how all the quest points link up. Once we know what we need to do all that, we'll have both the direction and hopefully the motivation to get the code flowing.

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Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.



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