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Credits go to BAF, GullRaDriel, HoHo, Matt Smith, Michael Jensen, Ron Novy, and Thomas Fjellstrom for helping out!
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[Computer Died] Oh the rebellions.
relpatseht
Member #5,034
September 2004
avatar

Sparked, likely, by the rebellions of X-G's and gnolam's hard drives, my computer has decided to suddenly die without warning. It worked fine yesterday, I turned it off as usual, but now it does not boot. The power light, hdd light, DVD light, and all other peripheral lights shine brightly (without wavering for an instant, to mock me), but the monitor remains blank and the air void of any last beep resonant of my allies.

Normally on computer death, I'll get a beep code, a readable error, a spoken error, or at the very least some smoke coming from the guilty party, but this time, nothing. Just the whir of fans and shine of a few LEDs. Any suggestions as what to test before I just guess and check on every part in the machine?

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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Check with another power supply.

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

relpatseht
Member #5,034
September 2004
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I checked with another power supply, then with different RAM, then with a different video card, then with a different HD, then all of the above at once. All to no avail. Then I tested with a different motherboard, low and behold, it works. Unfortunately, I don't have any spare motherboards lying around. My only choice is to hook a monitor up to my cardboard box computer or get a new one.

I should probably just get a whole new system, however, as my computer is about 4 years old. Thus, I now convert this thread to a "Build Me a New Computer" thread.

I have about $800 to spend (perhaps a bit more, definitely not less), and need at least a new motherboard and CPU. That also probably mean I need a new video card as AGP really isn't in style anymore and may mean I need new hard drives if IDE isn't supported on motherboard X. I have 2 512mb sticks of RAM and 2 256mb sticks, so I should probably up that to 4 512mb sticks or 2 1gb and 2 512mb. My PSU is 350W, I think, so that may be alright, I guess.

The only requirement: Linux friendly.

I hereby open the floor to suggestions and links, carefully guarding the plate of cookies.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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If you don't have DDR2, you need new ram as well.

Just get a good MSI, Asus, or other WELL known brand motherboard, a Core2 Duo, and 2 GB dual channel ram. watch out though, the most IDE channels you see these days is 2, one controller, for a max of two drives.

And the Marvell chip many MB makers are using has issues in linux, there is no native pata driver, you have to use the "generic" pata driver from the libata driver set in the 2.6.22 kernel (20 and less either don't work with the chip, or DMA is broken on it, so 22+ is a must).

I just went for a new SATA HD as it was really cheap at the time (320GB for 80$ cad), and use the Marvell chip for my PATA burner, which I intend on upgrading to a SATA burner soonish.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
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What kind of mother board was it? Just curious...

----
Oh... Bieber! I thought everyone was chanting Beaver... Now it doesn't make any sense at all. :-/

relpatseht
Member #5,034
September 2004
avatar

It was an Asus P4P800-E Deluxe motherboard. I didn't know enough to realize that AMD was making superior processors at the time. It would be nice if I could find some reason for its failure--now I'll be afraid to plug in any of my expansion cards. Ah well, some times things just decide to be spiteful, I suppose.

I only have two IDE hard drives anyway, so that won't really be a problem, although, it is a bit annoying to have to upgrade my RAM as well.

Just thumbing through Newegg, perhaps something like this?
GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L
Core2Duo E6750* OR Core2Duo E6600* OR Core2Quad E6600
G.SKILL (2x1GB) DDR2 800 (x2?)
EVGA GeForce 8600GT 256MB

I'm not all that up to date with computer parts, especially where RAM and motherboards are concerned. Any tips/changes to this line-up?

*I'm curious, why is the E6750 cheaper than the E6600? The E6750 looks like is has better specifications. What am I missing?

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Well the Core2Quad is half of your budget, and you might want to spend more than $100 on a motherboard (going cheap on the Mobo is a very bad idea, same with the psu)

Ah, also, you're going to want to go with a new PSU probably too.

Quote:

What am I missing?

Newer process, more in stock, etc.. It seems odd, but it isn't really. The 6750 has the smaller die size, more cache, etc, probably a faster FSB as well. Its cheaper to make, so its cheaper for the end user (at least while Intel has to compete ;))

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

relpatseht
Member #5,034
September 2004
avatar

Revision #1:
Core2Duo E6750 ABIT IP35 Pro LGA 775 Intel P35
G.SKILL (2x1GB) DDR2 800
EVGA GeForce 8600GT 256MB

As far as PSUs go, I don't know anything about them other than I need 24 pins. Could you recommend any brands or models?

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

I've heard good things about Antec, Thermaltake, and OCZ.. Probably others too, but I can't recall off hand.

You're also going to want to spend over $80-$120 on the psu, and make sure its rated for over 400-500 watts.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
avatar

Quote:

ASUS POST Reporter~
A voice warning design during POST notifies users of any system errors, which means no more complicated LED messages!

I don't know how that works, but is there a speaker connected? Maybe you'll get a voice saying "Your screwed dude!" or something ;)

[EDIT] You could always try resetting CMOS and pulling the battery just in case.. Then try booting up again... I've got a similar MB from the same year that still runs fine as long as I don't change bus or CPU clock settings

----
Oh... Bieber! I thought everyone was chanting Beaver... Now it doesn't make any sense at all. :-/

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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Quote:

The 6750 has the smaller die size, more cache, etc, probably a faster FSB as well

It has exactly the same die size and cache amount. Only FSB is 1333 instead of 1066. Basically Intel made them cheaper to push its new 1333MHz FSB motherboards :)

Quote:

G.SKILL (2x1GB) DDR2 800

You could save a bit by getting adata instead. They produce excellent RAM

For vide I'd get either of those:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814186023 < bigger fan (== quieter)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121076R < no fan (== silent)

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Quote:

It has exactly the same die size and cache amount. Only FSB is 1333 instead of 1066. Basically Intel made them cheaper to push its new 1333MHz FSB motherboards :)

I could swear it was a newer process, 45nm vs 64, etc... maybe thats the Q6600 vs the Q6750... or something.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
avatar

Nope, there are no 45nm CPUs on the market. First ones will be in a month or so but on desktop there will only be the highest end 3GHz quadcore. Slower ones will come early next year: http://www.tcmagazine.com/comments.php?shownews=16193&catid=2

Btw, I know a guy who was testing that same 3GHz quad. He said that under full CPU load the entire system took only 118W :o
Big image, sorry (~1.7M). Power usage is shown on the upper white thingie with 118 on display
{"name":"powerCon.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/5\/6522b837a38eba3cdf609b1d49fa9d9a.jpg","w":2288,"h":1712,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/5\/6522b837a38eba3cdf609b1d49fa9d9a"}powerCon.jpg

In unrelated news a guy I don't even know gave me his old 7800GT video card for free because I helped him solve some problem in a forum. Now I can tell everyone that it is not wasted time to hang out in forums ;D

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Quote:

Nope, there are no 45nm CPUs on the market.

Guh, you know what I mean. >:E

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
avatar

Quote:

Guh, you know what I mean. >:E

I'm sorry but I'm not sure I quite get what you mean. 45nm won't have a big impact for quite some time, certainly it had none when E6750 was released nearly three months ago for the same price it costs today.

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

I just meant using a smaller process can be cheaper (and is, at least for intel). I chose the wrong sizes..

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
avatar

Ah, yes. Obviously it is cheaper to produce. Sorry for being confused and confusing others :)

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

relpatseht
Member #5,034
September 2004
avatar

No, I fully tested the motherboard, Ron Novy, I even replaced the CMOS battery, but no, it is dead.

Anyway, I need to change this thread again. Because I am going off to college next year, my parents have offered to buy me a laptop, but not fix this computer. They are putting up $1000 and I can probably put up $300.

Thus, I now once again change the subject (for the last time) to a "Point Me to a Decent Laptop" thread. Linux friendly, of course, and preferably something that can do graphics at least moderately well.

Oh yes, also, I am using my carboard box computer right now. It is an old 300mhz Celeron with 128mb of RAM. The case is the box my now broken motherboard arrived in, which means pretty good airflow as I leave the top open. Starting this thing is annoying (I have to manually connect two jumper pins) but I think I'll tolerate that if leaving this thing constantly on is some major fire hazard. Any opinions there?

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
avatar

Intel will probably have decent mobile CPU price drop in the first few months next year as it introduces new 45nm mobile CPUs. Also ATI (aka AMD) and Nvidia will have 55/65nm GPUs out by then that should provide more performance at same power. Though I'm not sure if you can wait for 3+ months ..

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

relpatseht
Member #5,034
September 2004
avatar

Yeah, that is what is so annoying about this thing dying on me. I would have much rather waited as long as possible before buying the laptop I will probably use for the next four years. After using this ancient machine for a few hours, however, I know that I really can't be waiting at all.

Looking around at laptops is so disheartening. It would be so much better if I could piece something together, ah well.

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
avatar

But what about getting a cheap $300 PC for now and get a decent laptop just before going to college?

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

relpatseht
Member #5,034
September 2004
avatar

Well, spending $300 would mean I could only spend $1000 on a laptop just before heading out to college (from a frugality standpoint. I'm just cheap like that, I suppose.) I doubt there will be $600 swing in prices between now and then.

I'm alright with getting a laptop now. It is a bit annoying that my motherboard decided to die only months after the warranty became void, but, eh, I'll live.

Michael Jensen
Member #2,870
October 2002
avatar

Quote:

I only have two IDE hard drives anyway, so that won't really be a problem,

Remember, he said two channels MAX, that means both HDDs would be on the same controller (I do not recomend this) and you'd have nowhere to plug in a pata CD/DVD Drive, etc...

As for your original motherboard, if you still want to test it, unplug everything from it that you don't need (hard drives, cd, dvd, floppy, expansion cards except video), unplug usb devices from the back (I had a frozen printer once cause a machine to not boot), make sure your internal speaker is connected, etc. Only have the minimals in it, ex: the bare minimum amount/speed of ram you need to POST, etc.

If you still can't get it to POST, well then, something is very wrong. If OTOH it starts working, well you can work your way up from there.

edit: also check for popped capacitors. The type I'm talking about will be cylindrical, you should have quite a few on any given mobo, if the tops are raised up a bit, and/or black, then the board is probably dead or at the very least, unstable.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

I find bulging caps are most often coated in a white substance. Usually the fluid leaks out before the cap explodes.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
avatar

Quote:

Well, spending $300 would mean I could only spend $1000 on a laptop just before heading out to college

You could probably save a bit of money during the half a year you stll have before college so the difference wouldn't be $600

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

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