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Credits go to Dennis, Edgar Reynaldo, Epsi, jhuuskon, piccolo, Ron Novy, and Vanneto for helping out!
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[HD Woes] My hardware a splode.
X-G
Member #856
December 2000
avatar

Long story short: I was installing a WLAN card in a free PCI slot. When I tried to boot after that, the (USB) keyboard was not responding, and the computer was entirely unable to boot, complaining about a boot disk read error (a BIOS error, I think). After removing the haunted WLAN card again, the USB keyboard worked again, but the drive still won't boot; albeit in a different fashion.

The BIOS seems to correctly identify my three hard drives (all identical Samsung SP2504C), both at startup and in system setup, but can't off of the one that has my operating system on it. When it gets that far, it just stops doing anything. It doesn't freeze per se... the cursor is still blinking, showing activity, but nothing further happens.

Running a recovery console reveals that Windows is unable to detect a pre-existing installation, and trying to cd to C: results in... well, I can go there, but there's nothing there. The console effectively behaves as if the C:, D: and E: drives were DVD drives or floppy drives with no disk inserted, throwing an error if I try any meaningful operation on either.

My googling has brought up people who have had this problem and fixed it by disabling RAID in their BIOS, but that's not it here. RAID is disabled, and always has been as far as I know.

--
Since 2008-Jun-18, democracy in Sweden is dead. | 悪霊退散!悪霊退散!怨霊、物の怪、困った時は ドーマン!セーマン!ドーマン!セーマン! 直ぐに呼びましょう陰陽師レッツゴー!

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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X-G
Member #856
December 2000
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Yes, I can--how do you think I managed to get into the recovery console? IRQs, what? Boot order is irrelevant.

--
Since 2008-Jun-18, democracy in Sweden is dead. | 悪霊退散!悪霊退散!怨霊、物の怪、困った時は ドーマン!セーマン!ドーマン!セーマン! 直ぐに呼びましょう陰陽師レッツゴー!

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
avatar

[quote ]IRQs what?
</quote>
Since you installed a new device , your BIOS will try to read its settings from the card itself. If it set itself to the same IRQ (resource channel) as another device then that can make all kinds of crazy stuff happen. Does your BIOS display your IRQ settings? I wouldn't know how to fix them myself but if you notice that some of them are being shared that could be doing it.

X-G
Member #856
December 2000
avatar

It displays them briefly on boot, but I'm not sure what to look for. A few devices are sharing IRQ 11, I think, but I don't know if that's intentional or not. The WLAN card has been long excised, it's no longer in there at all.

--
Since 2008-Jun-18, democracy in Sweden is dead. | 悪霊退散!悪霊退散!怨霊、物の怪、困った時は ドーマン!セーマン!ドーマン!セーマン! 直ぐに呼びましょう陰陽師レッツゴー!

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
avatar

Okay , got out "PC Hardware : In a Nutshell" , looking over IRQ's

Quote:

When a component or peripheral , such as a network adapter or sound card , needs to get the CPU's attention , it does so by generating a signal on an Interrupt Request Line (IRQ) , Table 1-2 lists IRQs and the devices that typically use them.

Table 1-2./16/32-bit ISA/PCI standard IRQ assignments
IRQ        Bus type         Typically used by
00         none             Non-maskable Interrupt (NMI);system timer
01         none             Keyboard port
02         none             Programmable Interrupt Controller (PIC)-cascade to IRQ 09
03         8/16-bit         Communications Port 2 (COM2)
04         8/16-bit         Communications Port 1 (COM1)
05         8/16-bit         Sound card; printer port (LPT2)
06         8/16-bit         Floppy disk controller
07         8/16-bit         Printer Port (LPT1)
08         none             System CMOS/real-time clock
09         8/16-bit         Redirected from IRQ 02;network interface
10         16-bit           Network Interface;USB host controller
11         16-bit           Video adapter;SCSI host adapter
12         16-bit           PS/2 mouse port
13         none             Numeric data processor(math coprocessor)
14         16-bit           Primary IDE interface
15         16-bit           Secondary IDE interface

Okay , remember these are just typical settings.

Quote:

If the processor receives two or more interrupts simultaneously , it processes them in order of priority. On 8-bit systems (PCs and XTs) , the lower-numbered IRQ always takes priority. That is , IRQ 00 is the highest priority , and IRQ 07 is the lowest priority. 286 and higher systems use a second Programmable Interrupt Controller (PIC) to add a second set of eight IRQs , cascaded from IRQ 02. That changes IRQ priority from the simple numerical order used by 8-bit systems. On 16-bit and higher systems , IRQ 00 is still the highest priority , followed by IRQ 01 and 02. But because IRQ 02 is the cascade IRQ , the IRQs that it supports--IRQ 08 through IRQ 15-- are next in priority. IRQ 03 follows IRQ 15 in priority , and then in numerical order through IRQ 07 , the lowest priority. Whenever possible , assign "important" devices to higher-priority IRQs.

Maybe this will help you sort out what you are looking at.

Edit
Here's some info about PCI

Quote:

PCI cards use level-sensitive interrupts, which means that different PCI devices can assert different voltages on the same physical interrupt line , allowing the processor to determine which device generated the interrupt. PCI cards and slots manage interrupts internally. A PCI bus normally supports a maximum of four PCI slots , numbered 1 through 4. Each PCI slot can access four interrupts , labeled INT#1 through INT#4 (or INT#A through INT#D). Ordinarily , INT#1/A is used by PCI slot 1 , INT#2/B by Slot 2 , and so on.

Quote:

AGP cards support only INT#1/A and INT#2/B , and share with PCI Slot 1. If a PCI Slot 5 exists , it shares with Slot 4. In either case , with slots that share resources , avoid installing cards in both slots if both cards require the same shared resource. If you must use both slots , install only cards that can share an IRQ. If you encounter a conflict on a PCI system , simply moving cards to different slots often solves the problem.

Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
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I'm not sure what type of mother board it is, but in any case you definatly should update the BIOS once its up and running again. Then again you may have damaged a cable or something... Try swaping HD cables and make sure the drive is grounded to the case... The BIOS does make changes to irq's and stuff and the fact that the card is no longer there does not matter... If nothing else is working, then you could reset the CMOS and try again... You also may need to reset some other information in the bios.

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Oh... Bieber! I thought everyone was chanting Beaver... Now it doesn't make any sense at all. :-/

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
avatar

Ron Novy said:

...you could reset the CMOS and try again...

Try to find a CMOS save/restore utility before changing hardware.

PC Hardware in a Nutshell said:

Even if you don't plan to do anything that might affect CMOS , use your CMOS save/restore utility to save these settings to a diskette before you open the case. If you don't have such a utility , download one or record the settings with pencil and paper.

Sorry , that's a little after the fact.:-/

X-G
Member #856
December 2000
avatar

I have already done the "Reset CMOS" thing, and it did not help. And how am I supposed to update the CMOS anyway? And why do you think it would help? Wouldn't it just potentially compound the issues I already have?

And none of this explains why the drives are behaving the way they are in the first place. Remember, the WLAN card is no longer in there.

--
Since 2008-Jun-18, democracy in Sweden is dead. | 悪霊退散!悪霊退散!怨霊、物の怪、困った時は ドーマン!セーマン!ドーマン!セーマン! 直ぐに呼びましょう陰陽師レッツゴー!

Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
avatar

Actually its BIOS update... Usually Computer/Motherboard manufacturers give out updates to the BIOS (Basic Input Output System) when a bug is found. A hardware incompatibility issue like this most certainly would need an update... Unless of course its just a hardware incompatibility or complete hardware failure... Keeping up to date with BIOS revisions can keep your system running smoothly and in some cases it can actually improve performance.

You could also check that the bus speed is set low enough... The PCI/AGP buses should not operate higher then about 33MHz/66MHz unless you know your hardware can support the higher speeds.

List your hardware here... Mother board, drives, powersupply rating etc...

----
Oh... Bieber! I thought everyone was chanting Beaver... Now it doesn't make any sense at all. :-/

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
avatar

You said that you had two devices sharing IRQ 11 right?

Here's something else from the book :

Quote:

For ISA slots and devices , the rule is simple: two devices cannot share an IRQ if there is any possibility that those two devices may be used simultaneously. In practice that means that you cannot assign the same IRQ to more than one ISA device.

Don't know if that applies , don't know what devices were sharing the IRQ.

More from book :
CMOS can be updated by means of the motherboard manufacturers specific BIOS flasher and binary BIOS file itself. Following directions explicitly is a must as well as making absolutely sure it is the correct patch. Improper installation can result in a totally unuseable MOBO.

BIOS updates generally expand a motherboard's support for newer equipment , being able to use more memory , so on.

Quote:

Remember , the WLAN card is no longer in there.

True , but your computer didn't bonk until you put it in though , did it. So it changed something funny around.

Have you checked to make sure all the cables are seated properly? You might have knocked something loose working in there.

Have any of the BIOS settings changed since you reset the CMOS?

X-G
Member #856
December 2000
avatar

ISA slots aren't even from this millennium. There are no AGP or ISA slots in this computer, just four PCI slots and two PCI-E slots. I am not going to risk upgrading my BIOS and have THAT fail on me too. No, no settings have changed. Yes, all the cables are plugged in as far as I can tell. Bus ratings are set properly.

--
Since 2008-Jun-18, democracy in Sweden is dead. | 悪霊退散!悪霊退散!怨霊、物の怪、困った時は ドーマン!セーマン!ドーマン!セーマン! 直ぐに呼びましょう陰陽師レッツゴー!

Vanneto
Member #8,643
May 2007

Quote:

I am not going to risk upgrading my BIOS and have THAT fail on me too.

At least try it, and if it doesn't work, well, then your fucked. BUT, you don't know if it wont work... Try it!

In capitalist America bank robs you.

X-G
Member #856
December 2000
avatar

No. Trying random shit just because you can, with no indication that it would actually solve your problem, is just inviting more trouble, especially with something that's as error-sensitive as reflashing your BIOS.

--
Since 2008-Jun-18, democracy in Sweden is dead. | 悪霊退散!悪霊退散!怨霊、物の怪、困った時は ドーマン!セーマン!ドーマン!セーマン! 直ぐに呼びましょう陰陽師レッツゴー!

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
avatar

Vanneto Don't poke the bear. He's liable to maul you.
(-Edit- didn't post in time , I was about to warn you)

- X-G -
No , please don't try updating the BIOS yet.

You said you are booting from CD. What OS are you using? If you're using Windows , you can go to the Device Manager click on the View tab and select Resources By Type.
Now expand the IRQ listing on the left. See if that looks okay. (No doubling)

From your OP

X-G said:

The BIOS seems to correctly identify my three hard drives (all identical Samsung SP2504C), both at startup and in system setup, but can't off of the one that has my operating system on it. When it gets that far, it just stops doing anything. It doesn't freeze per se... the cursor is still blinking, showing activity, but nothing further happens.

It is possible that your boot order got screwed up. If the BIOS doesn't find the Boot Partition on your OS drive , it's possible its no longer being checked for as a boot device. Go into your CMOS setup / BIOS setup screen and look for boot order.

X-G
Member #856
December 2000
avatar

sigh Read a little more carefully. I can't boot into any actual operating system, just the Windows Recovery Console. And that refuses to acknowledge any of my drives as having anything on them at all.

There is nothing wrong with the boot order, as I've tried manually booting off of each of the three drives (even though only one is actually bootable). It's not a problem with boot order, it's a problem with the disk controller thinking all the drives are blank or invalid or something to that effect.

--
Since 2008-Jun-18, democracy in Sweden is dead. | 悪霊退散!悪霊退散!怨霊、物の怪、困った時は ドーマン!セーマン!ドーマン!セーマン! 直ぐに呼びましょう陰陽師レッツゴー!

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
avatar

"Reset CMOS" is not the same as "Reset ESCD". That "Reset ESCD" option is somewhere inside one of the other BIOS configuration pages. readme

If that fails and you still can't boot, take the drives to another Windows machine and mount them there to see if at least all your data is still there. If it isn't, you won't get around reinstalling anyway.

X-G
Member #856
December 2000
avatar

I don't have any other machines I could take the drives to. And I can't reinstall anyway, because I can't do anything with the drives! I mean that, nothing. No attempts to actually access anything on the drives do anything.

--
Since 2008-Jun-18, democracy in Sweden is dead. | 悪霊退散!悪霊退散!怨霊、物の怪、困った時は ドーマン!セーマン!ドーマン!セーマン! 直ぐに呼びましょう陰陽師レッツゴー!

Epsi
Member #5,731
April 2005
avatar

You have to do things in order or you will get crazy.

First, check if your hard drive isn't dead. Use a Linux Live CD like Knoppix (600MB download) and see if you can browse through the filesystem.
I've had many HDD die on me by just swithching hardware in the box, probably due to pure randomness or the lack of anti static-wrist thingie.
And the WiFi card could have just damaged the drives.

Anyway, if that works and you can browse in WINDOWS correctly, try to reformat the MBR correctly.

If that does't do the job, then you know the HDD is fine and you can start to look in the BIOS issues.
What are your disks anyway, IDE or ATA-II ? I had to change my ATA controller mode in the BIOS to be able to detect my drive.

___________________________________

piccolo: "soon all new 2d alegro games will be better. after i finsh my MMRPG. my game will serve as a code reference. so you can understand and grab code from."
piccolo: "just wait until my invetion comes out its going to take the wii to the next leave of game play. it will run sony and microsoft out of busness if i dont let them use it aswell."

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
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What about friends machines?
Anyway, look for that "Reset ESCD" option. As I said, it is not the same as "Reset CMOS".

X-G
Member #856
December 2000
avatar

S-ATA drives. The IDE optical drives work, the S-ATA hard drives don't. I don't know if that's relevant. The drives aren't dead, unless three drives somehow mysteriously failed in exactly the same way at exactly the same moment. I can't get at them at all.

Dennis, the only option is "Reset to Optimized Defaults".

--
Since 2008-Jun-18, democracy in Sweden is dead. | 悪霊退散!悪霊退散!怨霊、物の怪、困った時は ドーマン!セーマン!ドーマン!セーマン! 直ぐに呼びましょう陰陽師レッツゴー!

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
avatar

I'll reboot my machine now to look for the place where that option is in my BIOS.

Epsi
Member #5,731
April 2005
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Quote:

S-ATA drives. The IDE optical drives work, the S-ATA hard drives don't. I don't know if that's relevant. The drives aren't dead, unless three drives somehow mysteriously failed in exactly the same way at exactly the same moment. I can't get at them at all.

You said that the BIOS detect and list them, but cannot access data on them, right ?

Well good luck with wild guesses then... Your power supply could have failed and overpowered all HDDs thanks to a bad card. You will never know if you don't try.

Edit: To get my SATA to boot once I installed my current box, I had to change the SATA Mode (or something like that) from ENHANCED to REGULAR. Look for such a setting and try it

___________________________________

piccolo: "soon all new 2d alegro games will be better. after i finsh my MMRPG. my game will serve as a code reference. so you can understand and grab code from."
piccolo: "just wait until my invetion comes out its going to take the wii to the next leave of game play. it will run sony and microsoft out of busness if i dont let them use it aswell."

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
avatar

The recovery console has helpful options to fix things if you can determine what is wrong.

Type 'help' at the console to get a listing of all the commands available.
If you need information on a specific command 'topic' use these :
help 'topic'
'topic' /?

The 'map' command should give you a better idea of what is being recognized (HDD , CD-ROM , so forth.

http://www.allegro.cc/files/attachment/593451

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
avatar

In my Award Bios, the option is hidden under "PnP/PCI Configurations" and on that page it is called "Reset Configuration Data" which can be set to enabled or disabled. This should be set to enabled to do the reset of the ESCD(Extended System Configuration Data), it will automatically set itself back to disabled after it has done the reset.

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