Allegro.cc - Online Community

Allegro.cc Forums » Off-Topic Ordeals » A moral dilemma

This thread is locked; no one can reply to it. rss feed Print
A moral dilemma
Michael Jensen
Member #2,870
October 2002
avatar

Ok, I'm not looking for judgement, just an opinion to a hypothetical situation:

Situation:
Two adults are in a normal, closed, hetrosexual, long-term relationship. We'll call the man M, and the woman W.

M went to a party without W with one of his friends (who by the way hates W) -- we'll call her H. M gets drunk with H and cheats on W with her and a few others at the party.

Simplified:

M = Man
H = Man's Friend
W = Man's Girlfriend

M cheats on W with H and random party people.

Aftermath:

M realizes that what he did was wrong and apologizes to W. W says that she is willing to forgive M and continue the relationship, but has a hard time trusting him from then on -- and kindly requests that M no longer hang out with H if he wishes to continue their relationship.

M thinks that this is unfair, because he is very close friend's with H, and doesn't want to choose between H and W. W finally cracks and decides that M and H can be friends only if H apologizes for what she did with her man.

H will not apologize as she says that she has done nothing wrong. M backs her up saying that the blame is his, not H's. W is of the firm belief that since M did not rape H, that H played a part and if H wants to be a part of their lives, H should have to shape up and be kind to her and apologize.

Question:
What do you think? Do you find your empathy swayed one way or the other?

Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
avatar

If M has had an affair with H, having this "close friend" (with benefits?) nearby will put a constant and non-negligible strain on the relationship. W and H will probably never become friends.

I have always been of the opinion that M is the responsible party in this case, especially since H and W did not like each other (or at least H did not like W). However, if H wants to keep M as a friend, she may have to accept that it was a "bad" thing that she did and apologize to W. But since she doesn't want to, you can pretty much assume that she doesn't want to be a part of M+W's life - only M's.

Imo, M has to make a choice.

Kitty Cat
Member #2,815
October 2002
avatar

I'd agree with W about fault. Both M and H acted consentually, if inebriated, and both/neither are responsible (depending on your views of responsibility of acts while under the influence), not just one or the other. As for apologies, it'd probably be something I'd only be able to decide knowing M, W, and H personally. Making H apologize probably isn't going to do anything except increase animosity since she doesn't want to, and forcing it won't really gain anything since she could just say it to get everyone to shut up, leaving everyone in a state of quiet, or not so quiet, distrust.

In W's position, I'd politely and civilly talk to H and find out why she thinks she didn't do anything wrong, and try to convince her, civilly, otherwise, and let her make her own decisions.

Of course, the biggest issue is M and W's trust. If W can't trust M anymore, then the relationship isn't worth persuing, regardless of H. If W can, in time, honestly trust M again, then that's what they need to work on privately (H was not a root cause, at least as far as I can assume in this hypothetical situation). Knowing why M cheated on W, and working that out, is more important than H not apologizing. H apologizing is only needed for W.. but H hating W makes W unable to trust H, so it really doesn't matter what H does (even if H apologizes, they don't trust each other, so she'll never believe the apology is sincere anyway).

Do we know this wouldn't happen again with someone else whenever M gets drunk? Do we know this wouldn't happen again whenever H can get any influence over M? Is M secretly/unconsciously looking for a "better deal" over W, and H (being such a person) happened to be there with lowered inhibitions?

IMHO, at least.

--
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will pee on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

Michael Jensen
Member #2,870
October 2002
avatar

thanks guys, more opinions welcome.

Kibiz0r
Member #6,203
September 2005
avatar

What Jonathan said. M can't expect the other letters in his alphabet soup to get along.

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
avatar

W should be M's priority. M should be thankful W forgave him at all and stop seeing H.

Slartibartfast
Member #8,789
June 2007
avatar

I'd say W is right. I'd further say that I don't think M and H should continue seeing each other while M would still like to be with W, or at the very least have some considerable cooldown period.
I'd also expect M to cut down on alcohol intake.
Other stuff I thought about has already been mentioned.

Ariesnl
Member #2,902
November 2002
avatar

W is absolutely right :)

Perhaps one day we will find that the human factor is more complicated than space and time (Jean luc Picard)
Current project: [Star Trek Project ] Join if you want ;-)

Simon Parzer
Member #3,330
March 2003
avatar

W has made a very generous act for still being with M and still trusting him. He should be thankful.
Basically like Trent Gamblin said:

Quote:

W should be M's priority. M should be thankful W forgave him at all and stop seeing H.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

Once a cheater, always a cheater. The girlfriend should just kick the guy between the legs and say goodbye.

And the man should realize that getting drunk is incredibly stupid, and getting drunk with a "best friend" is more stupid than anything Neil Black's friend has done. Guys don't have "best female friends" without benefits, especially when drunk.

So if cheating isn't a good enough reason to dump the guy, his stupidity definitely is.

Oh, and as a side note. Giving up the "best friend" is a stupid condition because it doesn't solve the problem. It's not like a man has a girlfriend and then one other woman with whom he would cheat. He has a girlfriend and millions of other women with whom he would cheat. Getting rid of one of them will do nothing to prevent it from happening again with another woman ... which it will.

Onewing
Member #6,152
August 2005
avatar

Is H > W? If so, I'd say M->H.

------------
Solo-Games.org | My Tech Blog: The Digital Helm

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
avatar

You said M cheated with more than just H anyway, so meh.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

Quote:

M backs her up saying that the blame is his, not H's

More proof that the relationship is doomed. If you really are committed, you never not back up your girlfriend, even when she is as wrong as can be. And this isn't even a case of her being completely irrational. If she wants the woman to apologize, then the least you can do is honor that request!

It sounds to me that the man should just hook up with his best friend and forget about his girlfriend. And then when he finds a new best friend, hook up with her instead.

I expect to see you, your best friend, and girlfriend on the Jerry Springer show soon!

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
avatar

Let me know what day, so I can watch too.

Ariesnl
Member #2,902
November 2002
avatar

Quote:

I expect to see you, your best friend, and girlfriend on the Jerry Springer show soon!

LMAO ;D

Perhaps one day we will find that the human factor is more complicated than space and time (Jean luc Picard)
Current project: [Star Trek Project ] Join if you want ;-)

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

Michael Jensen said:

...and kindly requests that M no longer hang out with H if he wishes to continue their relationship.

That's a completely justified position. If W got drunk and fucked G what would M do? If I were M, G would bleed. IMO, it's clear that M likes H as more than a friend and if all it takes for them to step over the line is a few drinks then they shouldn't hang around together while in other relationships.

Michael Jensen said:

H will not apologize as she says that she has done nothing wrong. M backs her up saying that the blame is his, not H's. W is of the firm belief that since M did not rape H, that H played a part and if H wants to be a part of their lives, H should have to shape up and be kind to her and apologize.

W is being more than understanding, IMO. I think it's clear that H is being a bitch and getting between M and W. The only question that remains: does M want W or does M want H. It's been made clear by W that he can't have both (at least not openly) and it's been made clear by M and H that it's more than just friendship (especially by H refusing to apologize).

Doesn't sound like M is all that interested in W. Either way he needs to make a choice.

CGamesPlay
Member #2,559
July 2002
avatar

This is not Algebra. I've named M Bob, W Alice, and H Eve.

Everything Matthew said is right. Especially the part where Bob decided to stay with Eve instead of Alice.

--
Tomasu: Every time you read this: hugging!

Ryan Patterson - <http://cgamesplay.com/>

manjula
Member #3,569
June 2003
avatar

what Leverton says.

Seriously, the girlfriend is a dumbarse for giving this dick a second chance. They probably deserve each other.

Arvidsson
Member #4,603
May 2004
avatar

Wherein and for whom lies the dilemma?

nonnus29
Member #2,606
August 2002
avatar

Quote:

M gets drunk with H and cheats on W with her and a few others at the party.

Wtf kind of depraved sex orgies are you attending anyway? Ever heard of STD's?!?!?

And no I'm not jealous.

No I'm not.

Really, I'm not.

:P

ReyBrujo
Moderator
January 2001
avatar

It depends whether you are M, W or H ;)

Now, seriously, forgive what has been done, but end the relationship. End as friends or enemies, but end it. Once a dog tastes human blood, you sacrifice him.

--
RB
光子「あたしただ…奪う側に回ろうと思っただけよ」
Mitsuko's last words, Battle Royale

Yodhe23
Member #8,726
June 2007

"and random party people"...

that was the bit that got me??

I think that W should own up to the fact that obviously he doesn't
want to be in an exclusive relationship, or isn't yet mature enough
to commit to the level of attachment that the "standard relationship"
requires.

Doomed I tell ye, you're all doomed.... :P

www.justanotherturn.com

Onewing
Member #6,152
August 2005
avatar

[piccolo]
stay wit W only if you can get somethn out her and contnue your side project wit H. maximize your profits!
[/piccolo]

I felt his response was too long delayed.

------------
Solo-Games.org | My Tech Blog: The Digital Helm

Kibiz0r
Member #6,203
September 2005
avatar

"standard relationship"... Makes me wonder why we're even judging this by how well it stacks against the social norm, anyways. Their feelings for each other should be all that matters. How they conduct themselves -- that's up to the two of them to decide. None of our business.

I'd also like to know, if there was an asteroid hitting Earth tomorrow, how important would M and W's relationship remain, and how important would this quarrel be, by comparison? (Of course, that's a pointless question really, because they wouldn't have to deal with H in the picture for much longer, but you get the idea: they haven't run out of 1-ups because of something we might disapprove of)

manjula
Member #3,569
June 2003
avatar

Jensen said:

Two adults are in a normal, closed, hetrosexual, long-term relationship

that is his definition of a standard relationship. And obviously their feelings in this situation are affected by how they conducted themselves.

So don't try to be a trailblazer here for open relationships.

Also, the question of asteroids hitting the earth is not relevant to the question asked by the OP.



Go to: