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Closing Down
le_y_mistar
Member #8,251
January 2007
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RP, so how much did you bag out of shareware?

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I'm hell of an awesome guy :)

Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
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Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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"supplemental income"

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Matt Smith
Member #783
November 2000

"Also, even selling one game means I need to be registered as self-employed"

Not necessarily true. If you are on PAYE, you can simply inform your employers of your second income and they will do the necessary paperwork/deductions (precious little extra work). Alternatively you could complete your own tax return every year, or up the ante and register a limited company (with optional VAT registration) which does increase the paperwork but means you are equipped to take on contracts etc., which generally pay better (think double) what a salary does.

If you are on PAYE, your NI contributions are taken care of, so that worry is taken away the minute you take a straight job.

Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
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Guys.. Enough. I've made my decision.

Thank you.

Matt Smith
Member #783
November 2000

Oh, go on :)

le_y_mistar
Member #8,251
January 2007
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Quote:

Guys.. Enough. I've made my decision.

Thank you.

The fact that you posted about your decision on a public forum means that your decision will be discussed.

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I'm hell of an awesome guy :)

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Personally I'd like to get a job at a real game development company. You probably have the skills required, Richard, so if you still enjoy game development you could try that approach.

Anyway, best of luck.

Matthew Leverton said:

I've always had the opposite mindset about stuff like that. It's silly to get offended because someone else got something. Nobody "deserves" anything for free, so if anyone gets anything, we should be happy for them... It's not my loss.

Yeah, but if you bought a game and then found out the next day it was released for free you'd probably be a little upset. Why not give you a refund, etc.? :-/ It's understandable. And with that, perhaps this thread will serve as a lot of pity purchases. :P Ka-Ching! 8-) (No offense intended)

Matthew Leverton said:

No offense to Phipps, as he's written better games than I've ever bothered to do, but how could someone even expect to make a living writing 2D break-out games, etc? They are a dime a dozen, no matter what kind of twists you have on it.

People would rather pay $50 for a celebrity endorsed 3D crap game created by lazy interns than spend $20 for some well made has been remake by a hard-working independent. Selling something is 99% duping and 1% delivering. It's not totally impossible to make it as an independent developer, but you better really be clever.

Seconded. All of those break-out, tetris, Mario Bros., side-scrolling shooter clones, etc., etc., etc. have been done. They don't really offer much in new game. These days I want 3D games that can still capture my imagination the way Mario Bros. did 15+ years ago. If you want to make a living out of game development you'd be better off getting hired by a major game development company. It always amazes me when I hear people talk about shareware games because I can't remember ever considering buying one.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Quote:

Yeah, but if you bought a game and then found out the next day it was released for free you'd probably be a little upset.

I wouldn't be at all. If I had bought it the day before then obviously I felt it was worth it at the moment. Whether or not he released it for free the next day doesn't affect me at all. I don't live my life in the future. What if he released it for free but I never knew about it? Would the universe tell me to get upset?

I've never understood the "woe is me" attitude because someone else happened to be the beneficiary of grace.

ReyBrujo
Moderator
January 2001
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Building games for a living is hard, especially when you started 10 or 15 years too late! ;) However, you got experience very few could claim, so use that wisely.

--
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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Quote:

I'll start work on putting the Create series on the Allegro Wiki :)

Good idea, I was hoping someone would.

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le_y_mistar
Member #8,251
January 2007
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you should make also make a wiki entry about solo game development career being a bad move.

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I'm hell of an awesome guy :)

Edward Sheets
Member #4,734
June 2004
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Yves said:

you should make also make a wiki entry about solo game development career being a bad move.

I think most people have come to that conclusion anyway. But you really can't fault someone for chasing their dream. A few people have parlayed their hobbyist game creating talents into actual paying careers. Johan Peitz comes to mind. He had his Free Lunch website to showcase his stuff and eventually he found a job in the field. I think he was creating games for mobile devices recently IIRC. Some other a.cc members have also found jobs in the games industry.

But... yeah, I think shareware is pretty much dead. It's probably much safer to try to join an established company and go from there.

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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Matthew Leverton said:

I wouldn't be at all. If I had bought it the day before then obviously I felt it was worth it at the moment. Whether or not he released it for free the next day doesn't affect me at all. I don't live my life in the future. What if he released it for free but I never knew about it? Would the universe tell me to get upset?

I've never understood the "woe is me" attitude because someone else happened to be the beneficiary of grace.

It would remove all value from your purchase. That's wrong. And moreso, it's bad business. Most would be unlikely to invest in that person/company again. Maybe you really wouldn't mind, but many people would. Personally if I bought a game and discovered the next day it was released for free I would be upset (unless it was advertised and I decided I didn't care). But if it was released for free a month or more later, meh, that's negligible.

HardTranceFan
Member #7,317
June 2006
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Quote:

But... yeah, I think shareware is pretty much dead. It's probably much safer to try to join an established company and go from there.

It's not dead as a hobby and to make a bit of pocket money, but to make a living it's nearing the impossible.

--
"Shame your mind don't shine like your possessions do" - Faithless (I want more part 1)

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Quote:

It would remove all value from your purchase. That's wrong.

Whatever. I'm not sure how you sleep at night, because you never know if something you bought has been sold for a lesser amount to someone else!

You buy stuff in the present, in the moment. If it's worth it to you when you bought it in the moment, then it has its value. But if you complain when the company folds the following day, what you are really saying is that it was never worth the money to begin with. And then you're the idiot for buying it when you didn't think it was worth it.

And I don't disagree that some people would feel robbed. But surely those people already live a pretty miserable existence, always worrying about stuff that's out of their control happening to people they don't even know.

And to be clear: I don't think Phipps has any obligation to do anything. If he wants to release things now, next month, or never, that's his decision.

Edit: Did anyone ever post this? (Month old.) Neon Wars is on their list. None of my games made it. :(

Trezker
Member #1,739
December 2001
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Everything gets cheaper over time. Do you always keep waiting for hardware prices to drop and new technology to come? The guy buying a computer tomorrow always gets more for less than the one buying today.

All games eventually drops in price and in time becomes abandonware. Why do you think they set such high prices at launch just to lower them later? It's how economy works.

Slartibartfast
Member #8,789
June 2007
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Matthew, I disagree.
Since I am aware of the fact that prices always drop, when I make a purchase part of my consideration is "does the cost difference between buying it now and in t time worth having the product t time earlier / for t time longer".
I wouldn't mind buying the shareware game X even if I know that in six months it will be released for free if at the time of purchase I believe that having the game six months earlier is worth the added cost. However, if a product were to suddenly just go free a short while after I made my purchase it will indeed disrupt the earlier considerations I made, and will probably be quite annoying. (Because the extra one day of waiting is worth the difference in prices, in this example)

Kris Asick
Member #1,424
July 2001

Shareware gaming may be a dying industry, only succeeded at by the biggest companies on the net, but as long as the cheapest computers can't run top-of-the-line games, people will still buy shareware.

From my experience, every so often I still get people commenting that they love one of my games, and I do actually make sales every month. People do buy shareware, it's just a really hard industry to make a living in. Most of the personal success stories you hear come from people who have been working at their shareware for years as a hobby, not as their sole source of income. (And "most" is a funny word since I can only think of two off the top of my head...)

If you look at shareware as pocket-change instead of living expenses, it works fine. But still, it requires a major time investment between real work and play, which means sometimes it's just best to pack up and move on to better ideas.

EDIT:

Quote:

All games eventually drops in price and in time becomes abandonware.

Not true. Doom, Wolfenstein 3D, Duke Nukem 3D, System Shock, even Commander Keen, are all examples of games which are NOT free by any means and have existed for over a decade. That said, One Must Fall 2097 has been freeware for awhile now, and I think the original Descent is too, but since I own that one I'm not certain about that.

--- Kris Asick (Gemini)
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--- Kris Asick (Gemini)
--- http://www.pixelships.com

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
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Sad news to hear. Bright side is that you'll keep game developement as a hobby, so we won't lose a good talent. Anyway we'll somehow lose an example. You are one of a few people around here who was able to finish not only one game. Plus your games are fun to play and are very polished.

But decisions was made. It wasn't easy but was inevitable. So good luck with everything you do.

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piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
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Quote:

Whatever. I'm not sure how you sleep at night, because you never know if something you bought has been sold for a lesser amount to someone else!

I paid for a ps2 the day before the prices was dropped by sony. now im not getting a ps3 until i see an equivalent drop in price. what you happen if i pay $800.us for a ps3 and the next day the are giving then away for free. Imagine if i had to budget to save $800.us.

wow
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le_y_mistar
Member #8,251
January 2007
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{"name":"crunchy17riaasrt0.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/4\/e\/4e81c146613cd7c30533562d3cdd2616.jpg","w":492,"h":600,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/4\/e\/4e81c146613cd7c30533562d3cdd2616"}crunchy17riaasrt0.jpg

Yes, that is irrelevant.

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I'm hell of an awesome guy :)

imaxcs
Member #4,036
November 2003

Has this anything to do with the topic at all? Random?

Samuel Henderson
Member #3,757
August 2003
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Quote:

Has this anything to do with the topic at all? Random?

Yes, that irrelevant. ;D

I will admit if Richard made a new post tomorrow saying "Guess what? Sunnyball is free and open source!" I would feel pretty dumb having just forked over $30CAD for a n electronic download + physical media.

Edit:
That is to say I would feel dumb for not having seen it comming given the fact that he announced that he is closing down and frequents this site full of murderous leeching open source pirates.

Just kidding about the murderous leeching open source pirates remark. ;D

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Epsi
Member #5,731
April 2005
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It's a shame that you are closing down, especially since Neon Wars just got the most awesome review in history of video games

Except that only Gulladriel will understand it. But as he will tell you, it's a high level of awesome.

___________________________________

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piccolo: "just wait until my invetion comes out its going to take the wii to the next leave of game play. it will run sony and microsoft out of busness if i dont let them use it aswell."



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