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Gameplay Flaws |
arrowhen
Member #8,829
July 2007
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Quote: In some RPG you find/a bos drops an item/weapon which could have come in handly before you have found/the boss dropped it. That one actually kind of makes sense. If I was a boss monster and I heard that there was a Sword of Boss Monster Slaying floating around somewhere, I'd go out of my way to get my hands on it so it couldn't be used against me. |
Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Quote:
There's a difference between gameplay and story flaws. If you could get some mega-weapon that made everything too easy, then that would be a flaw, not a good feature. Likewise, hiding things in houses gives you incentive go interact with the community and learn more about the RPG story. Sure it's silly that you are stealing from these people, but that doesn't suggest a gameplay flaw. (You might argue that there are other ways to accomplish the same thing, but that still doesn't make this a gameplay flaw.) Lots of things in video games just make no sense. You could pick at stories and concepts all day long... Why does Gannon sit around in a cave, waiting for Link to get all powerful? If he just went to Link on day 1, he'd not have a chance. It's quite convenient that all the levels have an increasing level of difficulty so that Link can handle them all! But the story is flawed / unrealistic so that the gameplay is not. |
Lupuss.Umbrae
Member #8,387
March 2007
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arrowhen said: If I was a boss monster and I heard that there was a Sword of Boss Monster Slaying floating around somewhere, I'd go out of my way to get my hands on it so it couldn't be used against me.
Okay, that makes sense Matthew Leverton said: If you could get some mega-weapon that made everything too easy, then that would be a flaw, not a good feature. I didn't nean it that way. I mean somthing like the boss is droping a sword, but you don't know what to do with it, because you have spend much money for a better sword day ago... things like that... Matthew Leverton said: Sure it's silly that you are stealing from these people, but that doesn't suggest a gameplay flaw.
Yeah, you are right, sorry for that. -------------------------------------------------- |
23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Quote: If I was a boss monster and I heard that there was a Sword of Boss Monster Slaying floating around somewhere, I'd go out of my way to get my hands on it so it couldn't be used against me. You just gave Samus Aran nightmares. -- |
Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Quote: I didn't nean it that way. I mean somthing like the boss is droping a sword, but you don't know what to do with it, because you have spend much money for a better sword day ago... things like that... If that's always the case—that is, to beat the boss you basically must have a weapon greater than what he leaves behind—then, yes, I agree that the gameplay is unbalanced, which is a flaw. |
piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
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a big flaw is dieing to a boss when your level is way higher then theirs because you trained. some how they have an attack that reduces your life to 1hp them they captue u. then when they join your party you find out they are weak and useless. another flaw is not letting the main hero train with out haveing some one tag along. i tend to stoping those tpye of games. also i dont like the die and learn flaw. wow |
arrowhen
Member #8,829
July 2007
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Quote: I didn't nean it that way. I mean somthing like the boss is droping a sword, but you don't know what to do with it, because you have spend much money for a better sword day ago... things like that... Yeah, that bugs me too. More generally, it bugs me when your abilities progress at a rate that parallels the challenges you face. I.e., at one point in the game, your attacks do 10 damage and your enemies have 30 HP, then just as you level up/find equipment that lets you do 20 damage, you start facing enemies with 60 HP. I used to run a lot of tabletop RPGs and something I liked to do was right after the PCs gained new abilities, spells, or equipment I'd provide them with a couple of encounters that were designed to let them show off their new goodies. Afterwards I'd start ramping up the challenges again, but when you've worked hard to get something it's nice to get a chance to kick ass with it for a while. Quote: But I think, you should steal stuff, when they're not looking and not right in front of their eyes... That's fine if it's a game about stealing; in a game about something else, that's just going to distract from the focus. |
Jonny Cook
Member #4,055
November 2003
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Where does Alucard put all of his items? The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face. |
Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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Quote: But I think, you should steal stuff, when they're not looking and not right in front of their eyes... That's one thing I like about Morrowind. You've got to be sneaky about stealing, which adds to the challenge and makes the game more fun. A couple of other things I've thought of: Respawning guards. Iknow this happens in both Morrowind and Fable. When I decide to be totally evil, and clear out a town, people shouldn't just pop out of thin air to attack me. Once all the guards are dead, they should be dead. And it should take a few days for new ones to arrive. Places where you can't use weapons, but really want to. Like Bowerstone in Fable. There are some really annoying people in that town, and unfortunately I can't shoot them in the face with an arrow. Magic Bag of Holding. You character can carry around enough stuff to fill a small warehouse, although to look at him you'd never know it. Does he just shove it all in his pockets? Morrowind did a little to solve this, allowing you to carry only so much weight. But still, you're running around with five full suits of armor tucked under your cloak, and still capable of using both hands to fight. The player does need to be able to carry some loot out of dungeons with him, but this is just a little ridiculus. The best system I've seen for this is in an old game called Castle of the Winds. You were only allow to carry a maximum weight and a maximum bulk. If you wanted to carry more stuff, then you had to buy a bigger backpack. But even then, you could still carry around a huge chest full of armor and weapons and still be an effective fighter.
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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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There's just so many flaws... -- acc.js | al4anim - Allegro 4 Animation library | Allegro 5 VS/NuGet Guide | Allegro.cc Mockup | Allegro.cc <code> Tag | Allegro 4 Timer Example (w/ Semaphores) | Allegro 5 "Winpkg" (MSVC readme) | Bambot | Blog | C++ STL Container Flowchart | Castopulence Software | Check Return Values | Derail? | Is This A Discussion? Flow Chart | Filesystem Hierarchy Standard | Clean Code Talks - Global State and Singletons | How To Use Header Files | GNU/Linux (Debian, Fedora, Gentoo) | rot (rot13, rot47, rotN) | Streaming |
Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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Hmmm, maybe it will end when piccolo finishes The Game.
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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Possumdude0 said: Hmmm, maybe it will end when piccolo finishes The Game.
I'm obsessive compulsive about most of what I do... When I have the math knowledge, time, and artistic collaboration, that is when it will end! -- acc.js | al4anim - Allegro 4 Animation library | Allegro 5 VS/NuGet Guide | Allegro.cc Mockup | Allegro.cc <code> Tag | Allegro 4 Timer Example (w/ Semaphores) | Allegro 5 "Winpkg" (MSVC readme) | Bambot | Blog | C++ STL Container Flowchart | Castopulence Software | Check Return Values | Derail? | Is This A Discussion? Flow Chart | Filesystem Hierarchy Standard | Clean Code Talks - Global State and Singletons | How To Use Header Files | GNU/Linux (Debian, Fedora, Gentoo) | rot (rot13, rot47, rotN) | Streaming |
Jonny Cook
Member #4,055
November 2003
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Well, I'm putting my money on "The Game". I mean, seriously, what can go wrong when you have a name like that? The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face. |
Rampage
Member #3,035
December 2002
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The only bad thing about The Game is that it's not done yet. -R |
Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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At first I was skeptical about The game, but now I really want to play it. Come on, piccolo, give us a release date!
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piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
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Quote: Respawning guards. Iknow this happens in both Morrowind and Fable. When I decide to be totally evil, and clear out a town, people shouldn't just pop out of thin air to attack me. Once all the guards are dead, they should be dead. And it should take a few days for new ones to arrive. shining force neo made this a part of the story line. Monster gates spawn monsters and the can pop up any where its like a mass trance port spell. Quote: piccolo, give us a release date! all i can say is soon my damaged computer is not helping one bit. i go back to amarica soon so ill get it fixed wow |
Matt Smith
Member #783
November 2000
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Quote: hiding things in houses gives you incentive go interact with the community
That's the best euphemism for burglary I've heard in a while I dislke any game where the mechanism shows too clearly, unless it's cleverly woven into the story somehow. e.g. I wouldn't mind the bosses killing me first time, if they did it in an interesting way. |
bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Jonny Cook said: Well, I'm putting my money on "The Game". I mean, seriously, what can go wrong when you have a name like that? Deep down inside I know that few else will really get it... :'( -- acc.js | al4anim - Allegro 4 Animation library | Allegro 5 VS/NuGet Guide | Allegro.cc Mockup | Allegro.cc <code> Tag | Allegro 4 Timer Example (w/ Semaphores) | Allegro 5 "Winpkg" (MSVC readme) | Bambot | Blog | C++ STL Container Flowchart | Castopulence Software | Check Return Values | Derail? | Is This A Discussion? Flow Chart | Filesystem Hierarchy Standard | Clean Code Talks - Global State and Singletons | How To Use Header Files | GNU/Linux (Debian, Fedora, Gentoo) | rot (rot13, rot47, rotN) | Streaming |
piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
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i got the name from anime dot.hack sige edit: in the anime if you died in the game you died in the real world. alotof you guy whould be dead since you said you dont mine being killed by a boss. when i play a game i never die unless it has that flaw i talked about. where dieing is apart of the story line. wow |
Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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Fun gameplay is not primarily about succeeding, it's about failing in interesting ways. Unfortunately, many games miss this. And even worse, failure is most often "fatal". That is, if you walk into a trap, you die and reload. A better option might be to have a tough situation and let the player have a fair chance to escape and regroup. A boss that one-shots you without a fair chance is not the best way to do it. In BG2 for example, you are warned that if you attack a certain boss without help, you will fail. If you try it, he insta-kills you in an IG-cutscene (which is very silly, considering you may be a lot more powerful than him at that point, especially if you have the expainsion). This is bad IMO. Instead, make him hard enough so the extra help is actually needed (as it is now, the extra "help" is more of an annoyance really, as they keep you from doing powerful AoE attacks etc, and don't really help anyway). That way, if you are good, you are rewarded by the fact that you did not need help.
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Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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Quote: Magic Bag of Holding. You character can carry around enough stuff to fill a small warehouse, although to look at him you'd never know it. Does he just shove it all in his pockets? Morrowind did a little to solve this, allowing you to carry only so much weight. But still, you're running around with five full suits of armor tucked under your cloak, and still capable of using both hands to fight. The player does need to be able to carry some loot out of dungeons with him, but this is just a little ridiculus. The best system I've seen for this is in an old game called Castle of the Winds. You were only allow to carry a maximum weight and a maximum bulk. If you wanted to carry more stuff, then you had to buy a bigger backpack. But even then, you could still carry around a huge chest full of armor and weapons and still be an effective fighter.
[url=http://www.taleworlds.com/]Mount & Blade[/url] has a semi-satisfying solution to this: --- |
Trezker
Member #1,739
December 2001
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Wait a minute, horses in your inventory? Aren't the horses very big and heavy to store there? |
Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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You have two inventories iirc; on with fighting gear (if you have too much, you get some penalty in fights). So you have to weight how many arrows you want, and if you want a shield or not (because of the weight). Then there is the "party inventory", which is where you can keep trade goods etc, you can also keep horses here (apparently, never tried that) and that offsets the decrease in speed from carrying a lot (and i guess it helps to speed up those slow manhunters etc?).
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GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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Quote: when i play a game i never die unless it has that flaw i talked about. where dieing is apart of the story line. You play all your game at easy level, do you ? ;-p "Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours" |
Kibiz0r
Member #6,203
September 2005
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My main gripes are story: Too much story The absolute worst is when a story actually captivates you and they ruin it with a cinematic. Sure it's pretty, but it pulls you out of the game. I'm no longer the hero, I'm no longer doing things, I'm just watching this douchebag on the screen do stuff -- stuff that I should be doing, stuff that I have been working toward this whole time. WHY WOULD YOU TAKE AWAY THE MOST SATISFYING PART? Too little story Cloud has a TON of emotion. It's a very simple game! It really doesn't take much, you just have to stop milking the franchise title and wearing sterile gloves all the time and show the player that you've actually poured something into the game. --- |
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