Legalizing euthanasia and death penalty would make abortion questions so much easier

I know one couple who had been told several times by doctors that they would get a boy. At birth it was clear that it was a girl, afterall.

Step back: why was murder wrong in the first place? Clearly it's wrongness applies to born humans, at least by the cultural standards I know, but not to non-humans (squashing fleas is okay by me), and not to 'potential' humans -- I don't see an "every sperm is sacred"-style promotion of reproduction-whenever-possible as a common ideology. So the reasoning of 'murder is bad' does have some logical cut-off, somewhere between the egg/sperm stage and the 'there is actually a baby in the mother's arms' stage. Can you justify on non-religious grounds where that cutoff should be? Can we inform this kind of morality (or any kind or morality?) on non-religious grounds at all?

Just asking because I feel like people oversimplify these issues by extending sentiments so ingrained as unquestionable truth (ie, "murder is wrong") to areas where they don't clearly apply.

How do you define the difference between 'okay for suicide' and 'just needs help'? I suppose that difference would need to built in to the law.
... what a morbid topic.

To me, abortion is getting rid of something that would severely negatively impact your life before it becomes its own living being, and spare society from having another unwanted child.

And just because someone gets pregnant doesn't mean it was due to negligence, either.

My view: if abortion is criminalized, the coat-hanger industry would see a nice boom in sales.

Apologies for the late entry, and probably days off target, but trying to remove christmas is silly, it has nothing to do with religion anymore. It is just about making children and adults happy by giving and receiving presents, and in the case of children the continuation of thinking something special still exists in the world until they reach maturity and realise what a shitty world we live in.

Ask any child and they will say it is just a coincidence that jesus was born on the same day as Santa comes.

I bought 56 litres of V-Power. That sums up to about 56 euros of tax money to the government.

I (used to) bike to do my groceries. Does that count?

I don't want to side-track this thread any more, but one issue with abortion bans / considering it as murder is that it ignores the reality of things. People will have abortions whether it's legal or not. If it's not legal, it'll just happen in shadey dark alleys with little/no medical care, no clean environment, etc. That usually means the mother will most likely get infections or other deseases, which itself does put a burden on society as a whole.

One of the reasons for abortions being legal in the US (and most other countries) is that at least it allows for "half" (or "all", depending on your point of view) of the people involved to survive, as opposed to none.

You should not have asked the question, as the answer(and you already know it) is yes. Isn't it an evevidencehat using your bike is better than burning something ? :-p

From a sentence we say here I am:
That is the little things who make the big one.

Ask an ant, she got the answer.

if( people->destination && people->number <= 5)
number_of_car = take_the_same_car; /* == 1 */
else 
number_of_car = (int)(people->number/5);

Every little thing a guy can do is something less hurting us.
Every little thing added make a big thing.

The problem is that people do not have this in mind when throwing papers by the car window (in example).

Money is not really the answer. Each one living on earth should help just by adjusting his/her way of life.

I said.

:-p

Why the strawman?

Well formulated and I agree to 100%.

I think that the idea that abortion always is something bad stems from religion. Just as a lot of Arab countries are too much influenced by Islam, USA is too much influenced by Christianity.

My opinion in short:
- Abortion yes, if in very early stages; and definitely yes in special cases (rape, serious disorders in the child, danger for the mother).
- Please do not use circular argumentation (abortion is illegal -> who does it is a criminal -> criminals must not commit crimes -> abortion as a crime must be illegal -> q.e.d). Abortion is a crime only where and when it's against the law.
- Christmas: Not a Christian holiday in the first place. Early church did not celebrate birth of Christ this exuberantly, and not at this date. Rather lots of old Germanic, Nordic and Celtic roots, plus lots of 19th- and 20th-century neo-romantic and capitalist ideas attached.
- Halloween: Not satanic. Celtic roots mainly, and nothing to do with Satanism. Read this.
- V-Power: Don't buy it. Effects are marginal at best, you are being ripped off.
- Separation of State and Church: Very important for Democracy, still very under-rated. Religion in general is based on belief rather than facts, and should never be used as a base for any law. To anyone their beliefs, as long as I have the same choice, and nobody violates my rights in the name of religion.
- A "Bush sucks" T-Shirt is offensive, at least to Mr. Bush himself. "Jesus loves you" is not, not even to Jesus. That is why the former can be discussed about (I personally agree with the statement, but that aside), but the latter can't. As long as "Allah loves you", "Vishnu loves you", "Obatalá loves you" and "Satan loves you" are equally legal and accepted, I don't have a problem with "Jesus loves you" (although I disagree with this particular statement).

What exactly is a "pagan"?
I always thought it was a non christian, jew or muslim, and not really a religion of itself.

... YO HO HO, and a bottle of rum

Say what?
Go read their principles and come back in shame. Keeping 1984 at bay is the most important situation you'll ever face.