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Serious international gaming site project
Steve++
Member #1,816
January 2002

Kimmo, if you were serious about this, you would get on with it instead of wasting time insulting me.

People post here all the time with announcements for great projects, asking for other people to add content before there is actually an infrastucture in which to add it. Anyone that expresses an interest in joining gets sick of waiting for the project originator to finish something.

If anyone has any good articles, there are millions of great existing sites that will take their submissions. Why wait for someone to start another one?

So here is my practical encouragement for you: Make your site. Make it good. Come back here when it's ready, then people that are willing to make a contribution will actually be able to make a contribution.

Torbjörn Josefsson
Member #1,048
September 2000
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wtf is that Gamer News site?... nothing there at all :p a-holes

http://www.goodgame.se/ is a pretty nice looking (swedish) gaming site - alas, I don't have any confidence in their judgement. they gave "F-Zero GX" (or whatever) mega-high score, and it was sucky to the max - felt like a ship-on-a-stick

--
Specialization is for insects

Anonymous
Member #3,724
July 2003

Steve++: Obviously, you didn't read what I wrote. Please do so before replying exactly like I knew that at least one person would. :-/

Torbjörn Josefsson: That's my point. Some rich bastards buy all the good domains and don't use it. >:(

Jakub Wasilewski
Member #3,653
June 2003
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Quote:

I often asked myself why the allegro community would not make a single commercial game. We have a great platform, we have great artists, great programmers that all have individual special abilities, great designers, but everyone is so pessimistic.

First, we are a bunch of individuals sprinkled all over the globe, and that does not help if you have to work on something. Second, such a big team would need direction and clear leadership - and that's not something that is easy to achieve amongst 25 hobbyists and individualists. Third, big, quality projects are prone to death by lack of motivation, lack of common vision, lack of... pretty much anything.

We even tried such a team once... anyone remember Team Allegro? Lots of people joined, nothing got done except of generic this-handling or that-handling code, a few 3d models and little more. Heck, the first two weeks or so were spent on deciding what game we want to do!

It takes more than a bunch of talented people to make a good team.

---------------------------
[ ChristmasHack! | My games ] :::: One CSS to style them all, One Javascript to script them, / One HTML to bring them all and in the browser bind them / In the Land of Fantasy where Standards mean something.

Anonymous
Member #3,724
July 2003

Plus, if you are like me, you hate working in a team. ;D

Felipe Maia
Member #6,190
September 2005
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You're doomed then...

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
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Kimmo said:

Plus, if you are like me, you hate working in a team.;D

Yet, you're asking others to help you.;) If you really hate working in a team then why are you even asking others for help or comments?
You don't hate working in a team.

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

LOOSE <-> TIGHT
LOSE <-> WIN/GAIN

See, I can play English Nazi too. :D

Kimmo, your quote-swapping thing is actually correct in British English. We put the punctuation inside the quote if the quote is of a whole sentence, and outside otherwise. Sometimes it's unclear which to do. But we do change the final full stop into a comma if we want to append something outside the quote ("Stop," said John), and if we split a quote, then a comma goes inside there too ("Marmite," said Herbert, "is the most potent source of energy in the world.").

As I understand it, American English requires you to put punctuation inside the quotes in all cases, even cases like "this one". That doesn't make much sense to me either.

I'm afraid I have precious little time of my own these days, and far too much I want to do. That and you have kind of alienated me. Good luck with the project though.

Oh, by the way, you should ignore negative comments. :)

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
avatar

Quote:

I often asked myself why the allegro community would not make a single commercial game. We have a great platform, we have great artists, great programmers that all have individual special abilities, great designers, but everyone is so pessimistic.

Well, in my case I simply have zero interest in something like that. I wouldn't have the time anyway. And I think this holds for more people around here.

Kimmo Alm: Good luck, do your best!

OH:

Quote:

I have my own little version of English, where I like to swap the comma with the quotation mark, because I think that it makes no sense to say: "Mary had a little lamb," and she was happy. (As opposed to: "Mary had a little lamb", and she was happy.) Any comments on that?

Yes, you don't generally put a , before `and'. ;)
I don't know about American English, but putting punctuation outside quotation marks (or inside parentheses for that matter) looks weird and ugly to me...

Anonymous
Member #3,724
July 2003

Hehe. What I meant by hating to work in a team only applies to work that you cannot easily distinguish from one author to another. Get my point? If I made a game where I coded it, and I teamed up with a skilled pixel artist and a music composer, I'd be fine. But if somebody else were to share the code with me... it'd feel bad.

Same thing with this project. I'm more than happy for co-workers in the sense that they write material, but I wouldn't want them fiddeling with the backend code. Does it make sense now?

Bruce Perry: Have I alienated you?! That doesn't sound good... is that bad? ??? :'(

Evert: Hehe. It was just an example. I just wanted to show that quotes should actually quote grammar too: "Beans, butter, mustard and milk", and so he went hunting hawks.

(Yes, my examples suck. In Swedish, you probably wouldn't even have that comma.)

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Shortly after the bombings in London, you asked me if I'd been bombed lately. You flooded me with notices saying "Retarded?" Then you said "BOOM! Headshot!" and I blocked you. :-X

Evert, when it comes to parentheses, I apply the same rules. If I'm quoting one or more whole sentences, the full stop goes inside (that's only if it's a full sentence though). (On a side note, I always put a space before the opening parenthesis. That's the way it's been in every published book I've ever seen.)

Another thing I don't do is start a sentence, open parentheses, finish the sentence, start a new one, and then close the parentheses (like this. It seems wrong to me, but I've seen people do it).

:P

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Anonymous
Member #3,724
July 2003

Quote:

Shortly after the bombings in London, you asked me if I'd been bombed lately. You flooded me with notices saying "Retarded?" Then you said "BOOM! Headshot!" and I blocked you.

So YOU're entheh? What's wrong with asking if you got bombed? (Banning me for no reason inevitably leads to flooding.) >:(

Furthermore, I'm progressing with the gaming site. I'm not only a sayer, but also a doer. :)

BTW... Anyone else feel like he/she might consider joining? It'd be nice to have people from different parts of the world (more continuous news flow, different views on things, etc.). Especially, it'd be nice with a US and JP guy/girl.

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
avatar

Quote:

Another thing I don't do is start a sentence, open parentheses, finish the sentence, start a new one, and then close the parentheses (like this. It seems wrong to me, but I've seen people do it).

Eew! I've seen people do it too, but it's wrong. You can't logically start a sentence and finish it inside parentheses and start another one. I think that most often when people do something like that they intend to use an em-dash (or whatever it's called) --- like this.
I also put a space before an opening parenthesis, unless my spacebar malfunctions (and I tend to avoid placing an entire sentence within parentheses --- it looks rather ugly in my opinion and it `feels' wrong, as though it's against the logical construction of the text).
Anyway, I've been known to ponder on a line of text for a while, trying to decide if I should remove a comma or not. :)

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Congratulations on the progress :) Oh, you can always borrow ideas from X-G's forums ...

Evert, specifically I've seen Korval do it. ;D

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Anonymous
Member #3,724
July 2003

Quote:

Oh, you can always borrow ideas from X-G's forums ...

"You appear to be using Microsoft Internet Explorer to view this website. Due to the poor standards compliance of that browser, it might not be able to display this website properly. It is not supported and we strongly encourage you to switch to another browser. Click here to learn more about Internet Explorer and alternatives."

Why would I "borrow ideas" from a forum that incorrectly detects Opera 8.5 as MSIE and uses "click here" for links?

I respect X-G, but this lowers his status points a lot.

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

I was thinking more of the content to be honest. And have a look at that sign-up page. :)

What's wrong with "click here" for links?

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

X-G
Member #856
December 2000
avatar

Quote:

incorrectly detects Opera 8.5

Ahem. I use Opera 8.5 myself, and the forum correctly identifies me. I'm not sure exactly what you're doing, but my code is not the culprit. Maybe you've set Opera to report as being MSIE? In that case, the behaviour is exactly as expected. Press the F12 key and select a more appropriate option at the bottom.

I use the "Click here" type of link because I expect people who use MSIE to be of the "Average Joe" variety with a brain capacity roughly equal to that of a garden snail.

--
Since 2008-Jun-18, democracy in Sweden is dead. | 悪霊退散!悪霊退散!怨霊、物の怪、困った時は ドーマン!セーマン!ドーマン!セーマン! 直ぐに呼びましょう陰陽師レッツゴー!

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
avatar

Quote:

Why would I "borrow ideas" from a forum that incorrectly detects Opera 8.5 as MSIE

Did you tell Opera not to identify itself as Internet Explorer?

Anonymous
Member #3,724
July 2003

Of course I identify as MSIE (which UA string is far from clean). The point of this is that certain lame sites don't let non-MSIE browsers in.

Detecting Opera properly is done with "*Opera*". Just a tip. I don't know why anyone would match an exact string instead of checking for a string in the UA string, which is much more reliable in this case.

About the "click here" text... Even if MSIE people are retarded, it's still wrong. If they see it on the site that enlightens them about the suckitude of their browser, maybe they think that the usage of "click here" for a link is correct, too. :-/

PS: Whoa! That's one heavy anti-spambot security thing you've got there, X-G. Or maybe it's just to make sure that people can spell? ;D

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

See, I knew you two would get on :)

You haven't actually said why the use (not usage) of "click here" for a link is wrong.

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

X-G
Member #856
December 2000
avatar

Quote:

Detecting Opera properly is done with "*Opera*".

If you want to pretend you're MSIE, then I'm not going to stop you. I find it pretty laughable that you're complaining about my code detecting you as the browser you are telling the site that you are.

Quote:

Whoa! That's one heavy anti-spambot security thing you've got there, X-G. Or maybe it's just to make sure that people can spell?

Both.

--
Since 2008-Jun-18, democracy in Sweden is dead. | 悪霊退散!悪霊退散!怨霊、物の怪、困った時は ドーマン!セーマン!ドーマン!セーマン! 直ぐに呼びましょう陰陽師レッツゴー!

Anonymous
Member #3,724
July 2003

Quote:

You haven't actually said why the use (not usage) of "click here" for a link is wrong.

Because it's... wrong! If you print a document saying "click here", what would you think if you read it later? Click what? What does clicking a paper mean?

You're supposed to embed links in sentences. "Go learn more about alternatives" would be a fine link in this case. It's like seperating presentation from structure (like with HTML and CSS).

(You don't just "click" on stuff on the Web, either, so it's wrong in any case. You could follow the link in any number of ways.)

Quote:

I find it pretty laughable that you're complaining about my code detecting you as the browser you are telling the site that you are.

The MSIE UA string has a dirty history itself. Opera merely behaves like this by default to trick lame sites. It's the best browser available, but it can't be "perfect" as the Web isn't perfect. It must do things like this to survive.

Why would I wanna use the "real" Opera string, when any log analyzer worthy being called one will detect it as Opera if I use the MSIE one (which is NOT identical to what MSIE produces), and when it'll block me from many sites with lame Web masters?

I think you should change it to "*Opera*". I even think they officially say that this is how you identify Opera on Opera's Web site.

Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
avatar

Anonymous
Member #3,724
July 2003

Quote:

Oh.. my.. god.

What was that about? This thread going waaay off-topic? ??? :'(

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Kimmo, under what circumstances would you bother printing a page that tells you not to use IE? ::)

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

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