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God Poll
Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Quote:

I have not yet seen a religious book claim God supports birds. See those feathery things on both sides? ;)

Chris: I'm not sure what you ment by the smilie.. But that response is what I find is a typical 'religious' answer.. It totally avoids the main statement/question. And still tries to prove your point...

Maybe its just because Im very tired... but really...

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

ank 2
Member #2,120
March 2002

Firstly would you say that god has a plan and that everything that happans is because our omnipotent god wills it so. Therefore all existance is according to how god wants it to be. I thought this was universally accepted by all god fearing folk.

kazzmir
Member #1,786
December 2001
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religion is stupid. it mostly bases itself on the fact that it can explain all in the universe that modern science cant explain, and if people cant understand that explanation then they must just have faith in that god made everything and there obvuiosly is a reason for it being made. this is mildly illogical becuase what if scientists could explain almost every last detail of the universe including how it was created and when it will be destroyed. will people need to believe in a greater power anymore if they understand everything about the universe? without mystery, there is no need for the supernatural and thus human-kind can become a master of their own destiny. of course, it is unimaginable to be able to understand everythign about the universe which i guess is why so many people would quickly deny what i am saying, but in theory it is possible.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Quote:

Firstly would you say that god has a plan and that everything that happans is because our omnipotent god wills it so. Therefore all existance is according to how god wants it to be. I thought this was universally accepted by all god fearing folk.

Um... maybe GOD Fearing folk... Thats a totally paranoid view. I think something/someone had to start it all off... but to stick around this long wathcing us screw up so much? No sentient being has that much patience ;)

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Quote:

But that response is what I find is a typical 'religious' answer.. It totally avoids the main statement/question.

How? The idea ank 2 is putting forth is that people back the said "It's God!" every time something happened they couldn't explain. I'm pretty sure if they observed the birds for a while, they'd notice they utilize those wings when flying. I don't know how my plumbing works; I don't attribute the water coming out of the faucet to God. I attribute it to turning the tap. People two thousand years ago were ignorant, not stupid.

So what's this main question I'm missing?

Quote:

Firstly would you say that god has a plan and that everything that happans is because our omnipotent god wills it so.

Having a plan doesn't mean you control all aspects of reality. We have our free will, and exercise it. You're really stretching your points here.

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Funklord
Member #467
June 2000
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Dragons are a fiction, Dinosaurs existed.

Although I'd like to have a dragon as a pet...

Dragons are not only known for size,
they often are described as much smarter than humans since they live for circa 800 yrs, and that their skin is very hard to penetrate (needs special mythril weapons) therefore makes good material for shields and armour.
Dragons are not only born from eggs, they can be summoned from other realms too.
They are magical beings too, which makes them able to sometimes cast spells and heal themselves, and obviously they have some very powerful reactions going in in their digestive system since they can breath fire.

----------------------
[ Me payge | Me shoutcast (128k) | Me in aktOin! | Me OS | Me friends ]

Age is inversely proportional to how much drink you've had - Funklord

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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It;s the 'I have not yet seen a religious book claim God supports birds' part... Why would he not support birds? I still don't get what you meant. (Im quite tired... can't get to sleap...)

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

ank 2
Member #2,120
March 2002

>>it mostly bases itself on the fact that it can explain all in the universe that modern science cant explain

Thats why man needs it less and less. Why do you think that the religious have tried to stop technological progress. Anyone know the churh tried to stop use of planes, trains or anything that could erode belief in the bible.

Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
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Since you seem to be knowledge about this Chris, can I ask you a question?

Say I lead a very good life and I am a christian, helping everyone and trying to be a good person. When I die will I go to heaven?

Now:

Say I lead a very good life and I am NOT a christian, helping everyone and trying to be a good person. When I die will I go to hell?

If I will go to hell despite all my actions, then can I ask why?

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Quote:

Anyone know the churh tried to stop use of planes, trains or anything that could erode belief in the bible.

ooohhh... w0w.. my brain just made a connection to another 'religious' type topic!!! Beaurocracy... Gotta love Beaurocracy!

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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My answer to RP is my last post; I'm simultaneously posting and coding, and it's just not working out ;)

Quote:

Say I lead a very good life and I am a christian, helping everyone and trying to be a good person. When I die will I go to heaven?

Yup.

Quote:

Say I lead a very good life and I am NOT a christian, helping everyone and trying to be a good person. When I die will I go to hell?

There's room for variety in my response, but I'll be brief and say yes.

Quote:

If I will go to hell despite all my actions, then can I ask why?

Because your actions don't amount to jack. I could quote to China and back how our own righteousness are as rags to the Lord. It's John 3:16 again; we go to Heaven because of God, not ourselves. You can't earn Heaven.

Quote:

Anyone know the churh tried to stop use of planes, trains or anything that could erode belief in the bible.

That's nice. The Catholic church also endorses evolution, last I checked. If religious leaders want to block science, then they're idiots. Like I said, science hasn't contradicted Christianity once.

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

ank 2
Member #2,120
March 2002

>>Having a plan doesn't mean you control all aspects of reality. We have our free will, and exercise it.

Its not merely the fact that god has plan its the fact that he is a perfect omnipotent being. He does not make mistakes. So we should be doing Exactly what he wants. But we have free will? This is a contridiction in terms(another one to add to the bible).

Funklord
Member #467
June 2000
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Hmm.. so people understood flight 2000 yrs ago?
interesting...

- Father! how does that bird fly?
- Well son, it uses it's wings to flap for air velocity, and the aerodynamic shape of it's body allows it to float through the air with very little resistance whilst the pressure from below its wingspan works against the force of gravity.
- Ohh cool, so can I fly too?
- Well of course, if I build you this little thing here I call an aeroplane...

----------------------
[ Me payge | Me shoutcast (128k) | Me in aktOin! | Me OS | Me friends ]

Age is inversely proportional to how much drink you've had - Funklord

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Quote:

He does not make mistakes

Didn't he have to create Woman because he made man imperfectly? (Lonely?)

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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So basically, all the people who have never heard of Christianity (think of those born before 0 BC!) should just go rape and pillage and murder because, hey, they're going to hell anyway?

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Move to the Democratic People's Republic of Vivendi Universal (formerly known as Sweden) - officially democracy- and privacy-free since 2008-06-18!

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Quote:

He does not make mistakes.

Really? God openly admits to making a mistake when he made Saul king, for starters. I honestly don't know where you get this :P

Quote:

Hmm.. so people understood flight 2000 yrs ago?

Didn't Leonardo design a helicopter .... yeah; I know that was later, but I'm trying to make a point. Like I said, people were ignorant. Not stupid.

Right, that's my lot. I'm out of here; toodles.

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

ank 2
Member #2,120
March 2002

>> Didn't he have to create Woman because he made man imperfectly? (Lonely?)

Add that to the list of contridictions.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Quote:

Didn't Leonardo design a helicopter

that wasnt 2000 years ago! more like a few hundred (5 ish?)

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

nonnus29
Member #2,606
August 2002
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What would religion be like if there were no life after death?

ank 2
Member #2,120
March 2002

>> Really? God openly admits to making a mistake when he made Saul king, for starters. I honestly don't know where you get this

If god is omnipotent he cannot make a mistake. Your adding more and more contridictions to the dabate.

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
avatar

Interesting fact: the "founder" of Christianity, not Jesus (who was a Jew) but Paul, thinks that his words are better than those of God himself!

(Gal 1:8) "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel other than what we have preached to you, a curse be on him!"

--
Move to the Democratic People's Republic of Vivendi Universal (formerly known as Sweden) - officially democracy- and privacy-free since 2008-06-18!

Funklord
Member #467
June 2000
avatar

Quote:

Didn't Leonardo design a helicopter ....

No, he tried to, but failed.
At least he discovered that the human body did not exert enough kinetic energy to allow the flight of such a heavy object.

Did leonardo live 2000 yrs ago?
As I recall, even 500 yrs ago he was many times close to being called a pagan and burnt on a stake.

----------------------
[ Me payge | Me shoutcast (128k) | Me in aktOin! | Me OS | Me friends ]

Age is inversely proportional to how much drink you've had - Funklord

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Quote:

If god is omnipotent

Did I say he was?!? ::) Geez; quit making assumptions and just read the thing.
TF: I know; I edited my post.
gnolam: nice try; I ain't biting. I gotta get at least something done this weekend; outta here ...

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Yeah.. I gotta do a ton of tedious Win32 API stuff... I think Im done.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

JaTeR
Member #2,088
March 2002
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Quote:

Say I lead a very good life and I am a christian, helping everyone and trying to be a good person. When I die will I go to heaven?

yes.

Quote:

Say I lead a very good life and I am NOT a christian, helping everyone and trying to be a good person. When I die will I go to hell?

23 said yes.

It actually depends..

on one hand if you are a brazillian jungle person that has never met a missionary and knows nothing about God, but still believes there is something out there that controls everything and will save you. yes, you will go to heaven.. I think in Romans it says that the if the jews sin under the law, they will be judged under the law. and if a gentile (someone who knows nothing about God) sins outside of the law, they will be judged outside of the law. but if a gentile obeys God's law without actually haveing it. they will be a law unto themselves and will go to heaven.

on the other hand. if you reject God and all and try and be good. you will burn in hell. (to be blunt)

is that what you were gonna say 23?

Quote:

If I will go to hell despite all my actions, then can I ask why?

because it has nothin to do with your actions. its your beliefs that count.

JaTeR

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