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| Graphics API proposal (take 5) |
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Oz
Member #559
July 2000
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he biggest thing that comes to mind when i hear the graphics api being updated is.... is the directx code also gonna be updated? I have heard one simple minded person complain that by doing so would kill NT support but who really gives a damn. NT aint a gaming platform.... I would **LOVE** for allegro to use atleast directx 7 .. whats it using now 3.0 hehe? Many would agree directx really didnt start coming around till about 6.0... 8.1[or whatever the hell is out now] would ofcourse be choice... This is by far the biggest thing im looking for in a allegro update. I have really stoped using allegro all together because of this. Whats al_blit() even gonna look like? dont u think an al_ex_blit() is needed? GNE is rather buggy, and ive heard bad things about libnet but i havent used it myself. If allegro sported a easy to use networking library [add-on or not] it would be a big boost for allegro... No matter where you stand on it if your choosing between say sdl or allegro from a link from some website you gotta agree you would pick the one that "Even has tcp/ip support!" over one without.... Bloat is a terrible thing tho.. glad to see them damned fli playing routines gone. The GUI looks awful and im sure everyone here hates it as much as i do, update it or cut it. Ofcourse grabber would need it though... Hey im all for the new update method, id go one farther and have a DetectBestUpdateMethod() function... i dont wanna make the user choose,and i dont wanna write my own code to do it. It should therefore be added:) Dreamcast port?GBA port? I'm dumb!... u cant even buy a dreamcast anymore.. maybe at a flea market... and im not sure how limiting the GBA is even tho it is beastie for a handheld:) Consoles/Handhelds come and go to quickly why on earth even add it to allegro? It seems silly..... Ohh and why im completely off topic i think sound samples when loaded u should be able to adjust there volume, rather then just playing it at the volume needed, after awhile and u have so many that gets confusing... |
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Bob
Free Market Evangelist
September 2000
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Quote: I have heard one simple minded person complain that by doing so would kill NT support but who really gives a arg. NT aint a gaming platform Allegro could support both DirectX3 and 7 at the same time, and autodetect which one is installed. In fact, you could write the DX7 driver right now. However, no one is willing to write that DX7 driver. So right now, it's more of a "if you want it, you'll need to code it". BTW, what feature of DX6/7/8 would benefit Allegro? Quote: farther and have a DetectBestUpdateMethod() function
Then select AL_GFX_UPDATE_AUTO Quote: Ohh and why im completely off topic i think sound samples when loaded u should be able to adjust there volume Just loop through the sample data and multiply/shift them by some value... -- |
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Peter Hull
Member #1,136
March 2001
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Quote: Blit actually means BLock Transfer, with an 'i' in the middle I am dumb as toast. Curses. pete
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Oz
Member #559
July 2000
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Directx 8 would be huge for 3d programmers.. Theres really to much to even go into, its so much nicer to work with then other versions... and even sporting 7 should be noticeable speed gain.... ofcourse older video cards wont get much out of it... |
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MindCode
Member #2,031
March 2002
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I have to agree with Oz. Dx8 has support for programming nVidia vertex shaders, it's easier to code, and faster. Since Allegro is using Dx already, will it be possible to use Dx functions alongside Allegro. Or will it interfere with the library? ______________________________________ |
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spellcaster
Member #1,493
September 2001
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What are vertex shaders? How do I use them in 2d programming? (Point here is: If they're not used in 2d, the job is up to OpenGL) -- |
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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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um... How about BLock bIt Transfer. -- |
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Korval
Member #1,538
September 2001
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Quote: Directx 8 would be huge for 3d programmers.. Theres really to much to even go into, its so much nicer to work with then other versions... Although I'm not trying to start a D3D vs OpenGL war, we already have OpenGL support (via AllegroGL). It is very likely that Allegro 5.0 will have GL support built in. Why bother with D3D 8 when OpenGL (via extensions) supports even more features than D3D exposes? Quote: What are vertex shaders? How do I use them in 2d programming? Vertex programs wouldn't be very useful in 2D, unless you using them to set up data transfer for Pixel shaders (which can be very useful in 2D. Imagine bump-mapped sprites, for one). Remember, blits in a 3D renderer are done via texture-mapped quads. Therefore, you can use vertex programs to play around with vertex data on textured quads. Typically, for 2D, you're not going to need vertex programs. |
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SpongeBob SquarePants
Member #2,126
March 2002
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Speed is one reason, OGL is not even reconized by many video card manufacturers [granted almost all do nowadays], and is just given basic support by others. DX on the other hand is the industry standard, every video card is designed to run the best it possible can, in DX. |
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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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I really couldn't give a rats A$$ about DX support. -- |
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SpongeBob SquarePants
Member #2,126
March 2002
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I would really like to see that website, i tried playing a few games i commonly play on my windows machine on wine about a month back. I found it to be much slower, almost to the point where it was unplayable. My guess would be his machine was designed to run in linux a little more so then my old windows machine converted into a mp3 player(mostly)/linux box. Even so i would think you would care about it since im sure 99% of anyone who plays your game will be playing it via true DX.... Assuming you took the time to compile a DX version that is |
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ank 2
Member #2,120
March 2002
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Why not add DX support to allegro via something similar to AllegroGL while haveing the OpenGL support built in. DX does have its benefits but its not multiplatform like GL. In most cases DX support through WINE is going to result in a very slow game (and at the moment unstable too). |
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Bob
Free Market Evangelist
September 2000
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ank 2: Yes, that is possible. Although that requires people who are both familiar with DX and motivated enought to write the add-on. SpongeBob SquarePants: Unfortunately, you can only compare a game running on an emulator against the same one running outside the enumator to judge the speed of emulation, and not the speed of the video drivers -- |
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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Hey bob: WINE == Wine Is Not an Emulator -- |
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SpongeBob SquarePants
Member #2,126
March 2002
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I hate to say it seeing how you are a fellow bob and all,but Thomas is right:). Ohh kudos on the new version **GREAT** job guys. PS: Bob was wrong ha ha ha ha, Looks out side, Ahh a blue moon!! |
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Bob
Free Market Evangelist
September 2000
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Fine. It's an "abstraction layer translator". The thing is, depending on where you place that abstraction layer, you'll get yourself an emulator -- |
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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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-- |
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SpongeBob SquarePants
Member #2,126
March 2002
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Bump just because I WANNA |
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Thomas Harte
Member #33
April 2000
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Quote: im not sure how limiting the GBA is even tho it is beastie for a handheld A better designed 32bit processor than anything intel have come up with and the option of a normal frame buffer display rather than the very backward tile/sprite display that Nintendo hardware designers and Nintendo hardware designers alone love. However, there is no hardware acceleration in the frame buffered mode, unlike your PC (or even an Atari Lynx), so doing the sort of thing most people will assume is 'right' on a GBA - side scrolling platformers - would be suboptimal via the Allegro library. Quote: WINE is just an API. Its basically just a Win32API wrapper. I would call it a translator. Well, it also translates the executable format, and probably has to do some funky stuff with respect to memory allocation. By the way, has anyone tried combining WINE and that intel emulation BOCHS thing? [My site] [Tetrominoes] |
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SpongeBob SquarePants
Member #2,126
March 2002
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Thats it busters! Us Bob's ain't taking it no more,ya hear?!?! We is rising up against our oppressors, the Thomas's!! AKA TOMS! They must be dealt with in a ordiarly fasion! THE BOBS!!! THE TIME IS NOW!! WE MUST STRIKE O SAYETH THE LORD! |
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the_y_man
Member #1,770
December 2001
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very interesting..... |
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Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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The changes sound great. I think the al_draw arguement follows the same line of reasoning that Microsoft has follow, if they don't understand it, rather than force them to learn anything, make it easy for them so they don't strain thier brain. I have actually had a friend turned off of using Allegro because of things like the source and destination being inconsistant. Anyhow, I think we should refrain from coddling new programmers and stick to what makes sense and assume they have basic programming skill or are willing to LEARN rather than taking the Microsoft approach <shudder> (now that I think of it, why keep draw_sprite() at all? Personally I use blit() most of the time and it is very rare that I use sprite. Maybe some sprite functions that rotate etc... could be changed to rotate_bitmap or something. Unless you wanted to keep the draw_sprite strictly for RLE sprites, but couldn't blit handle that? just a thought) Have a good one. --- |
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Korval
Member #1,538
September 2001
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Quote: it just doesn't seem natural to have dest then source Tell that to the C/C++ language. After all, this:int Foo = Stuff doesn't set the value of Foo into Stuff; it sets the value of Stuff into Foo. |
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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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hmmm... I know at least one Assembly language uses Dest->Src -- |
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vpenquerch
Member #233
April 2000
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> Support for bitmaps of alternate color spaces (hsv, yuv). > al_set_int("/gfx/color_depth", 16); > al_map_rgb(sprite, &col, 255, 128, 0) |
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