Allegro.cc - Online Community

Allegro.cc Forums » Game Design & Concepts » Coin - op

This thread is locked; no one can reply to it. rss feed Print
 1   2 
Coin - op
Steve++
Member #1,816
January 2002

Hi.

Just wondering if anyone has considered making a coin-op Allegro game. I'm not talking just about coin-op style - I'm talking about making the game, building the box, and putting the whole thing together.

This is something I've wanted to do for years; not so much to make any money, but more for fun.

Johnny13
Member #805
October 2000
avatar

Put an IBMPC into Arcade machine?
running Windowz?
Once i went to the game center,i saw a Tennis game(3D!)didn't know the name,
displaying a screen which like a Dreamcast playing Audio-CD!
it's HANG!

Alg3D Praise my Games!!<code>#define SPAMMER (post>=666&&postperday>=6)</code><Mr.spellcaster>What post? <Mr.spellcaster>A useful post by me.

Steve++
Member #1,816
January 2002

No, not windows!

I usually make my (unfinished) games for windows so that most people can run them. However, I think Linux would be ideal for this sort of project. The way I see it, windows is good for hardware compatibility, but Linux is better for almost everything else. I would specifically buy hardware made by vendors that actually give a toss about Linux.

Also, I might use something other than Allegro; maybe SDL.

Troy D Patterson
Member #41
April 2000
avatar

I was thinking about doing a project like this. But I don't know enough about making things :)

You just asked who considered.

Johnny13: Could've been Virtual Tennis? Or World Tennis 2k#

---------------------------------------
I am Troy
KQ Lives!|Studio-Griz

Steve++
Member #1,816
January 2002

I've already got someone (a cabinet maker) who will make the box if I ask him. The whole thing could get a bit expensive though.
Things I would need:
Box
- Joystick and buttons
- Electronic coin drawer with some kind of interface
- A PC with a large enough monitor (ouch).
- Piece of glass to protect big, expensive monitor
- A good lock
It will probably be expensive, but I could cut a few corners, such as using the box as the PC's case, getting the parts wholesale, using B-grade chip-board, etc...
Who know, maybe I'll break even.

Troy D Patterson
Member #41
April 2000
avatar

- Joystick and buttons
Cheap. Since you're building it yourself. All you need is a generic Joystick and make the rest out of plastic.
- Electronic coin drawer with some kind of interface
This is where I'm lost.
- A PC with a large enough monitor (ouch).
Why a big monitor? 15 inches isn't enough for an aracde machine?
- Piece of glass to protect big, expensive monitor
.....

- A good lock
I saw those at the dollar store
It will probably be expensive, but I could cut a few corners, such as using the box as the PC's case, getting the parts wholesale, using B-grade chip-board, etc...
The reason it'd be easy is because you're coding for the hardware directly. So you know exactly what you're shooting for. Generic parts wouldn't be as bad.
How much would it cost for a Cabinet built?
And also. What OS would you run it off of? Would DOS be the choice? THat way you have a whole lot of the RAM and stuff free just for your game. And you don't need multitasking. Cause its only suppose to run your game.
I can't even boot my computer up without a keyboard. what's to be done about that?
Lemme know how much something like this'd cost.
[Edited to clean it up a little and add stuff]
[ January 24, 2002: Message edited by: Troy ]

---------------------------------------
I am Troy
KQ Lives!|Studio-Griz

Bradley Bergeron
Member #1,102
March 2001

quote:- A PC with a large enough monitor (ouch).
Why a big monitor? 15 inches isn't enough for an aracde machine?
14 would be cheaper, but i suppose
quote:- Piece of glass to protect big, expensive monitor
.....
plexiglass so it doesn't create a danger when/if glass is broke.
quote:And also. What OS would you run it off of? Would DOS be the choice? THat way you have a whole lot of the RAM and stuff free just for your game. And you don't need multitasking. Cause its only suppose to run your game.
dos would be the way to go, or linux, no cost there
quote:I can't even boot my computer up without a keyboard. what's to be done about that?
Lemme know how much something like this'd cost.
keyboards are cheap, ya need em for dos/linux anyways, just throw it in the box somewhere's

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

mybe this will help...

http://cmdrtaco.net/jubei/

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

DanielH
Member #934
January 2001
avatar

I was at this bar once and they had an arcade with DOOM. The game froze and when we unplugged it and replugged it in, we found out it was a pc running windows.

Kris Asick
Member #1,424
July 2001

Anyone been to Gameworld in Windsor, Ontario, Canada, while it was still popular? They were basically a one-stop game rental place including magazine sales, merchandise, and arcades. A couple of their machines were system rigs where when you put a coin in the buttons would be activated and then about five or ten minutes later the game would reset and you'd have to insert another coin to play again.
Also, making arcade rigs is actually not uncommon, though I've never heard of anyone doing it with an Allegro game yet... that would be sorta cool but wouldn't be too impresive unless the games on it kicked some ass. Otherwise, it would be like a box with wasted components.
Plus be prepared to waste lotsa time. Arcade rigs are tough pieces of equipment to put together ;)
--- Kris Asick (Gemini)
"He wants a Bubble Bobble machine... damned if he'll ever find one :P"

--- Kris Asick (Gemini)
--- http://www.pixelships.com

Inphernic
Member #1,111
March 2001

- A PC with a large enough monitor (ouch).

Buy a used ~21" TV and use TV-Out?

axilmar
Member #1,204
April 2001

Linux is way much better that DOS for this kind of thing, especially because there are accelerated NVIDIA GPU drivers for OpenGL. So you can make a full Allegro 3D with AllegGL, run it on accelerated NVIDIA on linux, and stick it in an arcade box.

Johnny13
Member #805
October 2000
avatar

is that stable?
i saw a Card game with touch-screen showing:
"Error reading drive F"
something like that...

Alg3D Praise my Games!!<code>#define SPAMMER (post>=666&&postperday>=6)</code><Mr.spellcaster>What post? <Mr.spellcaster>A useful post by me.

paranoima
Member #1,380
June 2001
avatar

HanaHo Games, Inc
Umm I was planning on buying or making one of these... One. So I could play my Mame roms and get back that arcade feel. Two. so I could play my allegro games on it and make me feel like I made a arcade game..

KaBlammyman
Member #455
June 2000
avatar

I am gonna make one for my senior project (I probably cant do it tho...) I was gonna get an old MB with an old AMD processor, since I don’t need to run a whole OS in the background (That’s the way the arcades do it...they have like 15mHz processors!!) Then make a joystick with arcade buttons you can order. You can take the circuit boards form a regular PC joystick, and use arcade buttons. (I had a manual on how to do this a while back, but lost it :mad Then I would get a good size TV for the monitor, and use a nice video card with TV out (even tho the graphics want be as crisp on a TV) but for the coin mechanism...uhhh I'm stuck. I’ll have my girlfriend who is an ECE (Electrical and Computer Engineering) major help me with that. And there ya go...Future Wars (Download Future Wars to see what I’m talking about) in the arcade! So yes I wanted to make an Arcade with Allegro...but, all in due time.
-Insert clever quote here-

->Insert clever quote here<-
http:my website

Steve++
Member #1,816
January 2002

I don't think it would be that hard. The only real challenges I can think of are interfacing a coin cabinet and joysticks.

As far as operating systems go, I might have a look at freedos. Hopefully cwsdpmi plays nice with it. Thanks for all your links and advice. I didn't know there was such a big home arcade box scene, but I guess I should have known.

Anyway, as far as interfacing of joysticks and coin door goes, I think I could do it with a microcontroller kit. There's a really good one made by Atmel. It has an RS232 (i.e. standard COM port) interface. I could hook up the joysticks and the coin door to the same system. I could program the microcontroller so that every time a joystick button is pressed or released, or anytime a coin goes in, an event is sent down the RS232 line.

[ January 25, 2002: Message edited by: Steve++ ]

Troy D Patterson
Member #41
April 2000
avatar

There's a site that tells you how to do all of this. HERE!

A keyboard hack or one of those IPacs could do the joystick to button interface. But everything else.... I'm lost on........ for now.

---------------------------------------
I am Troy
KQ Lives!|Studio-Griz

Mark Venture
Member #1,272
April 2001
avatar

What kind of games are you planning for ? 2D or 3D ? Simple style old school like donkey kong or a shootemup like XOP ?

"as long as there is hope, we will fight" (quote by Captain Avatar, Star Blazers, Season 1)

Funklord
Member #467
June 2000
avatar

Here goes...
To make an authentic Arcade machine:
You need at least a 28" TV, u can get good ones today for like $30, then u open the case and mount it upwards in the box, with a mirror to reflect it forward (this is to keep the weight in the middle of the box, thus easier to transport & relieving tension and allowing you to build the box out of cheaper wood)
I'd put an ATI graphics card in it because those are the only ones who truly support TV out,
other GFX cards can sometimes switch the output to the monitor and then u'll have to connect one to set it up again
(Also ATI are cheap & still offering the best quality TV picture +no software support needed)
Both the buttons and sticks for arcade machines are very expensive, your best bet would be to go find a console arcade stick
There is a very heavy duty one for Playstation selling for £20-£80
If you get that one (or most other consoles)you don't need to worry about writing drivers, just hook it up to your parallel-port & the drivers already exist on the web. www.dpadpro.com is one place (I've used that to hook up 5 SNES gamepads or 5 PSX pads to the PC with force feedback =)
I don't really see why you should need to use Linux, u could just write the game for Dos, it boots up faster +the filesystem is more secure from breaking down (on sudden switch off etc).
U could also put everything on an El-Torito bootable CD-ROM, if u wanna spare a CD drive instead of a harddrive.
About sound, mount the speakers towards the player then u build an inexpensive (20w??) active amplifier (so it doesn't use any power while not playing any sound)
There are a lot of schematics for those floating around the web.
(If you can't find I'll happily scan one for you)
I could tell you to slash one of those cheapo set of speakers they sell at computer stores, but they do sound just awful, I can't stand that canny sound that comes out of them.
About the coin-insert, I can't think of any simple way to get one except to officially buy ($$$), or go find an old machine at a dumpster, ask around, put/look at ads in newspapers etc.

----------------------
[ Me payge | Me shoutcast (128k) | Me in aktOin! | Me OS | Me friends ]

Age is inversely proportional to how much drink you've had - Funklord

Kris Asick
Member #1,424
July 2001

quote:You need at least a 28" TV, u can get good ones today for like $30
Yeah, used and in poor condition, maybe. New, not bloody likely. Commodore 64 bare-unit systems cost more than $30 :P
quote:then u open the case and mount it upwards in the box, with a mirror to reflect it forward
That big a CRT you would have to, but the mirror can shift during transport so it needs to have easily accessible adjuster knobs. (One for each angle.)
quote:I'd put an ATI graphics card in it because those are the only ones who truly support TV out, other GFX cards can sometimes switch the output to the monitor and then u'll have to connect one to set it up again
High-end ASUS cards are good for TV-Out too. ATI I don't trust, I've had bad experiences with their cards.
quote:Both the buttons and sticks for arcade machines are very expensive, your best bet would be to go find a console arcade stick
Uhh... not quite. The buttons and sticks are roughly the same price but seem more expensive since they're so simple. Well, this is because they're DURABLE. They have to be. Arcade sticks and buttons take a lot more punishment than the stuff you get from the local video game establishment.
quote:There is a very heavy duty one for Playstation selling for £20-£80
Ok then... that's a rather large price range there...
quote:If you get that one (or most other consoles)you don't need to worry about writing drivers, just hook it up to your parallel-port & the drivers already exist on the web. www.dpadpro.com is one place (I've used that to hook up 5 SNES gamepads or 5 PSX pads to the PC with force feedback =)
True... but with a standard arcade-quality stick you just need to fashion a serial connector with some wiring, plug it in, and use a standard joystick driver :P Mind you it's not actually THAT simple to do, because you have to worry about voltages and stuff like that, but hey, authenticity over simplicity, right?
quote:I don't really see why you should need to use Linux, u could just write the game for Dos, it boots up faster +the filesystem is more secure from breaking down (on sudden switch off etc). U could also put everything on an El-Torito bootable CD-ROM, if u wanna spare a CD drive instead of a harddrive.
Linux is more stable than DOS and allows for driver loading. That TV-Out feature you mentioned? No DOS support. Those fun joysticks you wann use on your system? Well, the website link you gave currently doesn't exist so I can't comment. Or whatabout being able to write your own drivers? Much easier to do in Linux than in DOS. And you can choose from any number of filesystems in Linux, you're not limited to FAT16 like you are with DOS, though you can use it if you want to.
quote:About sound, mount the speakers towards the player then u build an inexpensive (20w??) active amplifier (so it doesn't use any power while not playing any sound)
There are a lot of schematics for those floating around the web. (If you can't find I'll happily scan one for you)
I could tell you to slash one of those cheapo set of speakers they sell at computer stores, but they do sound just awful, I can't stand that canny sound that comes out of them.
Low-end Altec Lansing speakers are actually mid-quality compared to everything else. Just add a subwoofer and they sound awesome. All for about $50. (/w subwoofer) Careful if you slash 'em though because you don't want to place an unshielded speaker too close to the monitor or the actual computer. (Well, you can place 'em close so long as they aren't pointing towards said components.)
quote:About the coin-insert, I can't think of any simple way to get one except to officially buy ($$$), or go find an old machine at a dumpster, ask around, put/look at ads in newspapers etc.
There's actually a store just a few blocks away from where I live that specializes in arcade equipment. If you live in a big city you should be able to find one somewhere, otherwise, yeah, this is tricky.
--- Kris Asick (Gemini)
"He loves being able to debate someone line for line... mostly because everyone does it to HIM so often... :("

--- Kris Asick (Gemini)
--- http://www.pixelships.com

Funklord
Member #467
June 2000
avatar

quote:Yeah, used and in poor condition, maybe. New, not bloody likely
I've bought about 6 28-32" TVs never for more than $30 (used obviously)
If used in conjunction with a direct video signal (Video, S-Video, RGB) They mostly offer better quality than new TVs with crappy digital processing. (I haven't seen a good one yet)
quote:the mirror can shift during transport so it needs to have easily accessible adjuster knobs. (One for each angle.)
If the box is properly built, the mirror will never shift. It's all about construction.
quote:High-end ASUS cards are good for TV-Out too. ATI I don't trust, I've had bad experiences with their cards.
I currently use ASUS, ATI and Matrox cards for TV output.
ASUS has crap quality and only works in windows (needs software support).
Matrox is good but also only works in windows.
ATI has an internal check to see if the video signal is connected to a TV.. if it is then it will display on both screens at the same time (this has in my experience been fool-proof)
ATI is the only card I know of, that supports almost all screen modes
up to 800x600 32bit
Supports text modes as well (ie. u will see the BIOS screens etc.)
(note: some unchained VGA modes do not work..
But which program since 1988 uses those??)
FN: I was checking that page Troy posted, it has a link to a spanish guy who tested the TV output of different cards, he also came to the conclusion that ATI had the best quality picture. (Big differences BTW)
quote:The buttons and sticks are roughly the same price but seem more expensive since they're so simple
There are sticks for consoles that are a lot cheaper, the price range for the one I was talking about meant I saw it for £20 (rebated) but the original price was £80
That one was for PSX and had 2 sticks and 16 heavy duty buttons, it don't get much cheaper than that.
(They were original arcade type sticks & buttons)
Also the logic circuits, drivers etc. already exist, so much less hassle.
The directpadpro project seems to have ceased to exist, but I have the files and schematics still somewhere. http://www.xlntfunk.com/dpadpr50.zip
There are a lot of other projects like it to link console joysticks to your PC.
quote:Linux is more stable than DOS and allows for driver loading.
Who said linux is more stable than dos??
Dos has drivers for most things for this purpose, else why would 80% of the arcade console projects on Troys link use dos? (the remaining 20% use windows)
linux cannot be powered off easily (without wrecking the filesystem), with dos u just push the power button or pull the cord.
quote:That TV-Out feature you mentioned? No DOS support.
I already explained, ATI cards do not care what you run, it will display it on the TV screen.
But you are quite right, my ASUS card needs software support (Currently only win/linux)
quote:Those fun joysticks you wann use on your system? Well, the website link you gave currently doesn't exist so I can't comment. Or whatabout being able to write your own drivers? Much easier to do in Linux than in DOS.
Well if you are more familiar with driver writing under linux, it might be, but dos is still the easiest native platform for interfacing, most of the calls can easily be done in hardware.
quote:And you can choose from any number of filesystems in Linux, you're not limited to FAT16 like you are with DOS, though you can use it if you want to.
You are not limited to fat16 in dos, u can use fat32 which is just as good as EXT2 for linux.
So for this type of project I would definitely go for dos, just because its overhead is much simpler,
remember, you're not building a workstation, you're building a dedicated system, thus, the less stuff the better.
I think dos will be more stable than linux in this case.
[ January 27, 2002: Message edited by: Funklord ]
[ January 27, 2002: Message edited by: Funklord ]

----------------------
[ Me payge | Me shoutcast (128k) | Me in aktOin! | Me OS | Me friends ]

Age is inversely proportional to how much drink you've had - Funklord

ReyBrujo
Moderator
January 2001
avatar

I disagree with many of Funklord statemets, but I don't have time (for now) to explain myself better.

However, I just want to point out memory management under MS-DOS is UGLY. If you really want to use DOS, try Free or Open DOS. The problem is that Allegro isn't fully tested under those platforms.

RB

--
RB
光子「あたしただ…奪う側に回ろうと思っただけよ」
Mitsuko's last words, Battle Royale

Bob
Free Market Evangelist
September 2000
avatar

quote:linux cannot be powered off easily (without wrecking the filesystem), with dos u just push the power button or pull the cord.
Use ext3 instead of ext2 (it's stable now)
Either that, or disable write caching on your hard disks (like DOS )
You have Linux drivers for most hardware these days. Finding drivers for DOS is damn near impossible.

--
- Bob
[ -- All my signature links are 404 -- ]

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

You should't really use the harddisk for anything usefull anyway. If I was to build an arcade machine Id have the actual root filesystem on a CD or floppy disk and only have the high scores on a harddisk or some sort of NVRAM If I could afford it :)

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Mandrake Root Produc
Member #300
April 2000

ok i work at a place (WRG) which makes ATM's but use to make coin-op systems (before arcades kind of up and died), and i can tell you exactly what you will need.

first: no one uses pc monitors. It's either an LCD screen, or a tv set, most likely a tv set. The you would need a card doing tv out, and the like. I would suggestneihter using linux or windows, but DOS with the autoexec ready to run the game at startup. You dn't need a big harddrive, or a fast processor if it's only to do one game.

The expensive part wouuld be the cash dispensor (ouch), and you would need to program the cash dispensor to recognize coins being dropped in and giving the appropiratie amount of money back, as well as realizing how much was put into to give the player that extra amount of life. Not too hard. You could probably put together a quick parrallel port converter for the cash dispener (we use that in one of our PC based atm's...not too hard once you get the hang of it).

Then, you could easily do two joysticks, i think a few people made there own arcade style joysticks here, (well i know Lb1st on the GDR has, might want to ask him http://gdr.swoo.net), which is pretty much not all too expensive.

It would be neat, but arcade machines are expensive for a reason. If you wanted to market a game in a box setup like this, don't expect any takers, since arcade sales are plummeting and no one would pay the 800$ that most machines cost these days.

 1   2 


Go to: