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| 2D Engines Future |
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AceBlkwell
Member #13,038
July 2011
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All, My question. If Allegro and SDL type engines die out, will the only options in game programming be highly graphic FPS and games like Portal? What happens to the PacMan / Pharoah’s Tomb / Commander Keen type programming? Or will that die out as well? What do you think? |
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Dizzy Egg
Member #10,824
March 2009
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I don’t think 2D games will die out, pixel games have had a huge resurgence in recent years, but I think people are favouring the newer tools to use them. Being able to do all of your tiles/maps/shaders in a one stop shop like Unity is seen as much more favourable rather than having to code everything from the ground up. Well, that’s my opinion!
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Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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Each has their audience. Unreal is going for that "extreme graphics" brand, while Unity is going for more for a broader audience and not focusing so much on graphics. Both of them are companies (like any other company), and need users. Each of them are trying to knock out a part of the market. If you want to make production-level games with Allegro, you will have to put in some work. Like Dizzy said, you'll need to build a shader pipeline, add loader code for models, create animation and rigging systems, and consider the ramifications of cross-platform quirks. Allegro does provide a good foundation for you to do these things, specifically in cross-platform support. The alternative is that you use the OS's APIs directly, but who wants to do that when Allegro already has such a nice abstraction API. So Allegro has a place. If you want to make games, you'll need to have tools like level editors, 3D modeling software, pixel art tools, etc. These things are not provided by Allegro, but other game development tools do include things with this purpose. The typical path that Allegro users have taken is to spend time building out their own level editors. Realistically, this might not be the best use of development time. I personally prefer to build out my own workflows, so I love things like Allegro. -- |
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AceBlkwell
Member #13,038
July 2011
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Ok now I get it. I'm not that hardcore of a programmer. I'm more leisurely. My games don't involve shaders or mapping. So I'm not sure Unity or Unreal would offer me anything that I'm not getting with Allegro. Thanks for the insight. I was wondering what the difference was and why one would work where the other didn't. I'm not an expert now but have the jest of how they work. |
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RmBeer2
Member #16,660
April 2017
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2D may well die due to the lack of programmers who know how to take advantage of the charm of these types of games, but I don't think that will ever happen, because if you really care about games you will run into 2D games, like all the old game consoles with their ROMs. 🌈🌈🌈 🌟 BlackRook WebSite (Only valid from my installer) 🌟 C/C++ 🌟 GNU/Linux 🌟 IceCream/Cornet 🌟 🌈🌈🌈 Rm Beer for Emperor 2021! Rm Beer for Ruinous Slave Drained 2022! Rm Beer for Traveler From The Future Warning Not To Enter In 2023! Rm Beer are building a travel machine for Go Back from 2023! Rm Beer in an apocalyptic world burning hordes of Zombies in 2024! |
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Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010
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RmBeer2 said: And they will realize that 2D games are better than 3D because they invoke the imagination better. When you make a 3D game, you always look for realism, and that takes away from the novelty of a game. There is some truth to that. Old 3D games tend to look just clumsy today, at least compared to beautifully crafted pixel art which has become an art style in itself. |
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Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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A really good channel I follow is Best Indie Games. The channel showcases new indie games all the time and puts out a video at least twice a week showcasing the flood of indie games that are going into the market. There's a LOT of pixel art. Here's a dang video:  I don't know where you guys are sourcing your despair from? 2D games and 2D pixel art are doing fine. 🤷♂️ Here are some pics of newer metroidvania games: https://www.allegro.cc/files/attachment/613328 -- |
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Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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2d games will never go anywhere, just like boardgames will never die. But you don't have to practically have a degree in programming to write 2D games anymore. An engine + scriptkiddies is sufficient now to get things on the screen. -----sig: |
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Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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I'll just say this, when was the latest AAA 2D game? Starcraft II? My Website! | EAGLE GUI Library Demos | My Deviant Art Gallery | Spiraloid Preview | A4 FontMaker | Skyline! (Missile Defense) Eagle and Allegro 5 binaries | Older Allegro 4 and 5 binaries | Allegro 5 compile guide |
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torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
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Edgar Reynaldo said: I'll just say this, when was the latest AAA 2D game? Starcraft II? SC2 is 3D, you can change the viewing angle |
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Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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Prove my point even harder baby. So it was Starcraft I I was thinking of. My Website! | EAGLE GUI Library Demos | My Deviant Art Gallery | Spiraloid Preview | A4 FontMaker | Skyline! (Missile Defense) Eagle and Allegro 5 binaries | Older Allegro 4 and 5 binaries | Allegro 5 compile guide |
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Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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As I stated in the other thread, 2D isn't dying. The problem is we live in a world that wants everything faster so 2D games are now made in engines like Unity and Godot instead of being fully done with libraries where you have to do all the setup and background coding. Which, while I no longer consider myself a programmer nor game dev, is sad cause I always found beauty in the code. I know the ease of it as I remember the pong clone I made in 2005 compared to following the Learn Unity site and making infinite runner where I just drag and drop the assets, attach C# scripts and have a game in a matter of minutes. Then there is also the surge of YouTube videos showing how easy it is to make games with Unity and Chat GPT. I have my concerns over these kinds of videos, I don't feel that they nurture learning programming.
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Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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Specter Phoenix said: Then there is also the surge of YouTube videos showing how easy it is to make games with Unity and Chat GPT. I mean, using ChatGPT to code is not exactly easy. You still have to know what you're doing, it gets things wrong all the time, and often misses edge cases that you have to be an experienced programmer to look out for. Those YouTube videos are mostly clickbait that you shouldn't feign over. They're up there with "Learn to code C++ in 48 hours!". -- |
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Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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You're right Mark, my concerns are just amped over all the news I've been seeing about the writer and actor strikes, Congress, indie devs, programmers, and non-programmers, just a lot of bombardment
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AceBlkwell
Member #13,038
July 2011
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Sounds like 2D is here for a while. I can appreciate that. I’m not sure where I fall yet on the “drag and drop” programming Vs detailed coding. On the one hand I learned going from Quick Basic to C, with options comes complexity. On the flipside, as with learning a musical instrument, often the mastery of the instrument impedes self-expression / creativity in the use of the instrument. One thing I do find discouraging. Writing a simplistic looking game, such as a match game or a simon says game where you work on the logic and error proofing for weeks. You stand back all proud and pumped. You show someone used to playing 3D graphical, console type games and they look at you like ...nice..... |
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Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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What is disheartening, also, is when you see the admin of a gamedev discord server that promotes all things gamedev in another discord server for gamedev bashing all 2D games and pixel art as a "blight on the industry that needs to die".
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Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010
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AceBlkwell said: You stand back all proud and pumped. You show someone used to playing 3D graphical, console type games and they look at you like ...nice..... Well, as a consumer, you never think about the many people and m/billions of $$$ required to create a product to today's standards. Maybe AI will level the playing field a bit as everyone can use it to regurgitate the work of others without paying them. |
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AceBlkwell
Member #13,038
July 2011
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Yeah Polybios. I get that a one man (novice) show isn't going to compete with modern day big budget productions. Still when you do something you find impressive given your skill set, it’s frustrating not to have someone to share it with. I once did a simon says clone. The game itself was typical, but I managed to create an LED looking score screen with a ticker tape affect. I was please anyway given my limitations. But you show it to someone used to playing Skyrim and they look at it like, whatever. You can’t even be proud in front of other coders. Their always like “ you shouldn’t have used those 60 lines of code. You should have used the al_LED(x,y,size,*keycode) command to prevent a memory leaks.” |
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Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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What does AAA have to do with anything? AAA can only make mass-market appeal [bland] games. That's why indie has exploded. If you haven't noticed indie games taking over, you haven't been playing games. Factorio [which initially ran on Allegro5] Each of those above sold millions and that's just a few off the top of my head in my Steam library right now. Honorable Mentions: - Ion Fury is literally running on the Duke Nukem 3D engine. Made millions. There's a brand new unnamed Fallout 1/2 game in 2D coming out to massive fanfair. Itch.io is full of thousands of 2D games. -----sig: |
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, I'm just now starting to include a mouse. 
, but I guess I should be grateful they've not done any Skynet or Legion segments yet.
