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I'm not sure but I think the threads lock too soon
RmBeer2
Member #16,660
April 2017
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Who / What will survive longer? Going upstream in the river of evolution is more work than going downstream.

If that's the case then let's leave allegro, let's use unity, it's easier there because it's full of people.

You already realize how absurd that looks, just like using discord.

If you want to promote the allegro library, it is better to do it on social networks, specifically in programming and/or game groups.

I've never tried to post things in ads, but I understand that they are cheap and have a lot of exposure on social networks. I can't do it, but I'm sure others can.

EDIT: read the messages in IRC.

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Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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RMBeer2 - just because your are upset with discord, does not mean the rest of the people using allegro or wanting to use allegro in the future do not want to use discord.

It's an alternate site, that can have a little fun, and advertise allegro. The more people we invite, the more know about allegro. What are your alternatives? Blackrook IRC for everyone? Nerds like images and graphics and videos and sound. It's just a secondary way to spread allegro.

To quote Bart Simpson

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Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
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I use the LÖVE Discord and it's pretty cool.

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ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.
they / she

amarillion
Member #940
January 2001
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Ok, here it is. An Allegro server on Discord:

https://discord.gg/gjgPTg4fGS

RmBeer2 said:

If you want to promote the allegro library, it is better to do it on social networks

Discord is a social network too. Discord is far from perfect, but community moderation works better than the global moderation that the facebooks and twitters of this world are trying to do. And at least Discord is not owned by Zuckerberg or Elon Musk

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Elon Musk

hilariously. everyone loved elon musk like a superhero "he's ironman!" till about 2 years ago.

tesla. single handedly making electric vehicles that will "save the planet". Not to mention self-driving cars. "hero."

space x. single handedly making cost-effective private space vehicles. "hero."

hyperloop. which is marketing b.s. but they still loved him for it. "hero."

starlink. bringing internet to the world via satellites. "hero."

getting high on joe rogan podcast, showing the world that pot isn't that dangerous. "hero."

now all a sudden he wants to buy twitter and he's a monster.

I love it so much.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Takes a while for the bad side to be exposed and believed when a guy is rich. Elon Musk is essentially just a more intelligent Donald Trump / better troll. (And Zuckerberg is trash.)

Wasn't Paypal one of the most evil companies way back when? It all starts from the top.

Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
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I literally don't care about Elon Musk. He's a jerk with a lot of money.

...

I got a "yes" from Disney, but they're still waiting on getting an offer approved by the compensation/HR teams. I told them what I expect for compensation after going through my current Amazon compensation, so here's hoping they can get close.

At Amazon, based on current stock prices, I'll be make ~220k/year for years 3-4. Before the stock tumble it was 300k/year for years 3-4 so um... I'm willing to go as low as ~180k total comp at Disney, but will instantly say yes to anything around 250k.

The team at Disney was super refreshing to interview with. There were a few questions I didn't know the answer to, and instead of bullshitting may way through, I honestly said I don't know but I would approach the problem X way or would ask follow-up questions to clarify on the points I didn't know. At Amazon, that would have been a disqualification. At Disney, they thought my honesty and intuition were a strong point. The whole team was really positive, nice, and talented as well. It was definitely one of the best interviews I've been in.

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ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.
they / she

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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Erin Maus said:

I literally don't care about Elon Musk. He's a jerk with a lot of money.

Same could be said about you. You're making a ridiculous amount of money, and for someone who is still looking for an entry level job, it's kind of humiliating. Thanks for listening. :(

Dizzy Egg
Member #10,824
March 2009
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Erin Maus said:

I literally don't care about Elon Musk. He's a jerk with a lot of money.

Quote:

but will instantly say yes to anything around 250k

;D.

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Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
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If I make $250k, whoever is paying me is probably making 2-3x that off my labor.

Disney Streaming made like $5 billion last year. I don't know the operating costs. Assuming, say, 5x the number of employees back in 2017 (when it was Bamtech) you're looking at employees generating ~$1.1 million revenue per person.

It's not the same.

...

As far as entry level stuff goes, I took an (unpaid) internship opportunity with a React frontend / Node serverless / GraphQL app. Two months later, had a job making <$15/hr.

When I had enough experience I began looking for an alternative in a more urban centers. I ended up joining Allstate at Charlotte, North Carolina in 2019. Again, React / Node backend. Made $80k/year, the bare minimum they could pay me given my title.

When Allstate said there were going to be layoffs, immediately began looking for work. Landed a gig working on IoT / emerging technologies at a regional bank over here, Truist. Started at $105k. Loved the job.

Had a recruiter from NBC Universal approach me. Long story short, had an offer for $135K. Used that to leverage a raise at Truist to $155k total comp ($135k + % bonus).

Later, got an Amazon recruiter. Tried it for the hell of it, negotiated a WFH SDE II position for $300k total comp.

Not saying this is going to work for you. It's tough to get the foot in the door. But it's not like I didn't work for what I had. I literally grew up and lived in poverty until I was ... 27? Definitely got lucky. But I'm also smart, driven, and ambitious. You don't get far with just luck. But you won't get far without it.

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ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.
they / she

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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What's the base salary at Amazon?

Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
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When I started, the salary was $160k max. My salary is $155k. I think it now goes up to $350k or whereabouts.

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ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.
they / she

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Just wondering because my employer is small and cannot price compete with the big tech companies, but I think it's generally an easier and nicer place to work at. We have no stock to offer which then really skews things in public companies' favor, but at a base salary we're probably competitive toward the median.

I also don't understand how people aren't able to find remote engineering jobs within the past two years, at least in the USA; I feel like it has to be a soft-skills issue vs any technical reason.

amarillion
Member #940
January 2001
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I don't think our CEO makes that much money.

Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
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In the US, if I lost my job / couldn't get another in a timely fashion I'm on the hook for north of $2,500 in medical expenses a month, so... I'd rather make a lot less in many European countries than make what I do now in the US.

Yes, I "make a lot" right now but it's a horrible job that's taken a big toll of my mental health. I work a skilled job that not many others can do, but I'm still exploited for my labor like anyone else who isn't a capitalist.

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ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.
they / she

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Erin Maus said:

but I'm still exploited for my labor like anyone else who isn't a capitalist.

My salary is $155k.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

No salary is worth losing your mental well-being. So I don't think it's something to laugh at. Sure, most people who have terrible jobs also have terrible salaries, which makes it doubly worse. >:(

I'd rather make $80k/year at a job I enjoyed than $160k/year for a job that I regularly had to work 60+ hours weekly and had to be on call 24/7.

But really, if you live in the USA and you have software engineering skills, then start applying to every remote job you can find whether you think you qualify or not. For every 100 you apply, you may get 10 responses, and end up as a preferred, qualified candidate in 1 of them. Literally apply for five jobs a day. And I'd ask for at least $120k.

For the first job you land, it doesn't really matter what it is (as long as it isn't 100% soul sucking). Because you can keep applying and get more picky after that.

I know this technique works; I know multiple people who have done this in the past few years and ended up making 2x what they had been. But what I've found is that the same people who don't have the stamina to apply for jobs like this also don't have the stamina to be good, stable employees.

Sure, most people can get up in person to a stupid job, flip burgers or something for 8 hours, and make not much money, and complain a lot. But there's a surprising number of otherwise talented people who don't have the gumption to get out of bed, roll up their sleeves, bust out a todo list, and get creative stuff done without immense procrastination that leads to a intense downward spiral of stress and more procrastination... Don't be one of them.

Anyway the window of an excess of remote work is possibly closing... Probably a lot of layoffs coming if economy continues in a negative direction.

Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
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I feel like when I was living in poverty and argued for socialism, I was entitled and lazy. Now that I'm better off, you lot are saying I'm a hypocrite or out of touch.

There is literally no winning.

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ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.
they / she

amarillion
Member #940
January 2001
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I'm not sure that it's the same people saying those things.

Anyway, I'm not trying to say any of that. I'm happy that you find the job you want.

"Exploited" is a strange choice of word here though. Exploitation implies being forced to do something against your will. I'd hope that you do this job all voluntarily.

Something to consider. I make a lot less but I work only 32 hours per week. No overtime.

Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
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I literally just bought a house. Due to the crazy house costs vs appraisal, the down payment, and closing costs I had to tank my "emergency fund" (e.g., money reserved for me if I were laid off or some such). Was that smart? Well, I'm not saying it was dumb. It was a risk I took to buy an ideal house sooner than later. (My mortgage would be over 33% higher if I bought now, all things the same otherwise, than when I did in early April, for reference. That adds up to something like $270,000 over the life of the loan).

I can't just quit my job without losing my house (and car, though less important) if I can't find a job in few months. Plus, I have steep medical costs that I'd have to pay (or pay for health insurance out of pocket which would also be an additional, heavy cost).

There's "choice", in the sense yes I could sabotage everything but any choice I make sucks at this moment. My choices as of right now are suffer (financially) or suffer (mentally). ???

Also, exploit just means take advantage of, there's no implication or connotation of force. I didn't say I was a slave. Your employer makes significantly more off your labor than you receive as compensation, especially in more "white collar" jobs like software development. There's an imbalance to most positions - a company won't (generally, in almost every case) become unprofitable or fail if they fire an employee. But for that employee (e.g., most folks in the US), people live dangerously close to homelessness if they get fired and can't find work soon after.

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ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.
they / she

Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010

Erin Maus said:

I feel like when I was living in poverty and argued for socialism, I was entitled and lazy. Now that I'm better off, you lot are saying I'm a hypocrite or out of touch.

It might be because arguing for socialism is not considered a good idea by many, regardless of your income.

However, US people tend to call things "socialism" that on the Euro side of the Atlantic would be considered... I don't know, maybe: ... guaranteed employee rights (e.g. paid sick / maternal leave, paid holidays, health insurance independent of employer, some sort of unemployment welfare payments etc.).

"Real socialism" would be different. It has so far inevitably failed whereever it has been tried. However, historically, guaranteed employee rights were achieved because of a credible threat of introducing "real socialism". European mainstream left-leaning parties, although they still might have "socialist" in their name, do not want to introduce "real socialism" at all.

In Europe, it's a bit moderated. You usually do not climb as high salary-wise but you do not fall as hard either. Plus, cost of living is a factor. It all has its pros and cons.

Regarding exploitation: None of us software / IT people has to toil 12 hrs a day 7 days a week in a coal mine without protection, being paid weekly without any compensation if you are injured during work. So I'm not sure in how far the term exploitation is accurate.
However, depending on how (mentally) satisfying your job is, you might well perceive it as exploitation.
But we should not confuse the work that objectively needs to be done by someone with exploitation. There are parts of (almost?) every job that are not genuinely fulfilling. It's work, like doing the dishes. This would be the case even in "real socialism", mind you.

You can still work as a freelancer, so you only exploit yourself. :D

Anyway, I don't think losing your (mental) health for a job is a good deal whatever you earn.
Is this long hours?

32 hours per week. No overtime.

Is this in the private sector?
I should consider moving to the Netherlands. ::)
In Germany, it's hard to find IT jobs which are less than 40 hrs / week. Unless it's some state run thing which is paid badly and might be hrhrm staffed accordingly.

amarillion
Member #940
January 2001
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Well, I had to refer to the dictionary definition of exploit.

Quote:

exploit verb
ex·​ploit | \ ik-ˈsplȯit
, ˈek-ˌsplȯit
\
exploited; exploiting; exploits

Definition of exploit (Entry 2 of 2)

transitive verb
1 : to make productive use of : utilize exploiting your talents exploit your opponent's weakness
2 : to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage exploiting migrant farm workers

I guess I was thinking more in the line of meaning 2, whereas Erin was more thinking of definition 1. This is where the confusion stems from.

Polybios said:

Is this in the private sector?
I should consider moving to the Netherlands. ::)
In Germany, it's hard to find IT jobs which are less than 40 hrs / week. Unless it's some state run thing which is paid badly and might be hrhrm staffed accordingly.

Yes, it's private sector. We have a department in Germany (Kaiserslautern)

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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Erin thank you for your detailed response. I didn't realize how much effort you had put into continually reapplying for jobs. I'm just frustrated at my lack of success so far but I'm working with employment agencies in software dev so we'll see how that goes.

Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
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No worries. I struggled a ton to get my first opportunity, then got lucky they wanted to hire me after the internship. I didn't even mention the countless jobs I've applied to, or interviewed for, or whatever that obviously never came through - I only mentioned the ones that worked out.

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ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.
they / she

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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