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| The Global Warming Swindle |
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Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Is NASA a good enough source? You know... the guys capable of space travel and who put all those weather monitoring satellites into orbit? http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/ It'd be pretty hard for any of us to say we know better than NASA in a field without lots of concrete evidence. -----sig: |
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Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
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raynebc said: And some other people act like alarmists and opportunistic green industry vultures. When the science is "settled" and refined enough to be agreed upon by the rest of the natural sciences, then maybe progress can be made. And then the big oil companies pushing ads and so on to discredit genuine research is in some way different? That's capitalism for you. Luckily, the global science community is not one individual or organization with a political or monetary agenda. In fact, the political and monetary interests stifle a lot of research that would otherwise be done simply because there is no immediate interest or effect. And scientists can't perform research without some sort of income. --- |
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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Global warming is real! This past June was the 66'th hottest evar!!!111 They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
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Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
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Are you serious? One data point (edit: of one area, no less!) in recorded climate history is, in any way, "proof?" That article, for the record, is filled with misconceptions about how data is used. 2014 (last year, just if you weren't sure) was the warmest year in record: https://www.nasa.gov/press/2015/january/nasa-determines-2014-warmest-year-in-modern-record Similarly, it's been warming since mass usage of fossil fuels (i.e., industrial revolution). But because it snowed somewhere or there were hotter days, global warming isn't true. Ok. There is more CO2 in the atmosphere now then has been in millions of years. Millions of years ago it was warmer. If we keep it up, we may be able to restore the climate to when land was covered in ferns and trees hadn't evolved yet (unless you are going to tell me evolution is bullshit, too, woo)! Sounds fun. --- |
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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Actually Mother Nature invented "wood" 400 million years ago, and it took fungi an additional 50 million years to figure out how to break it down, so the wood just piled up for that 50 million years, to produce the giant coal veins from the Carboniferous Era. That's when the CO2 plummeted, because it was tied up in all that wood. They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
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Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
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Yes, and how does that disprove the point? What do you think will happen when the coal is burned and returned to the atmosphere? (As an aside, I wasn't clear: I know trees evolved hundreds of millions of years ago, and fungi/bacteria that could break down wood until millions of years later. That was my point: do you want all that carbon to return to the atmosphere? What do you think is going to happen? The temperature won't rise? Sure... Reminds me of Ken Ham's "observational science" and "historical science" distinctions... as if the same conditions will create different effects simply because it's now and not then, ok.) edit: Unless your saying the CO2 dropped because the fungus destroyed the wood. No. That's not how it works. When sequestered in a solid, the carbon is not going to affect temperatures because it's not in the atmosphere! --- |
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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Aaron Bolyard said: What do you think will happen when the coal is burned and returned to the atmosphere? We have a long, long, long way to go to burn all the coal Indeed, we'll only be able to get a tiny fraction of it no matter what. Quote: edit: Unless your saying the CO2 dropped because the fungus destroyed the wood. No. That's not how it works. When sequestered in a solid, the carbon is not going to affect temperatures because it's not in the atmosphere! well, duh! They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
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Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
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But we're not burning just coal. We're burning oil at a similar rate, and there's also natural gas. Although coal is a worse offender (see http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=73&t=11), it's not like gas and so on are considerably better. Is your argument that simply because we won't return to CO2 levels some half a billion years ago that it's okay now to burn as much as possible, disregarding the notion that returning to the climate and temperature of 60 million years ago would have catastrophic consequences on most current life? --- |
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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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This chart shows that the amount of coal outweighs the oil and gas combined. Since the previous link I posted showed that we can only get a tiny fraction of the total coal, I'd say that shows we can only get a tiny way toward the amount of CO2 that the dinosaurs enjoyed. They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
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Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
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But it doesn't show how much is being used relatively. It doesn't matter how much there is if it's not being used! See page 29, "Consumption" for more http://www.iea.org/publications/freepublications/publication/keyworld2014.pdf Cherry picking facts and figures while disregarding the whole picture just shows dishonesty. --- |
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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Aaron Bolyard said: It doesn't matter how much there is if it's not being used! But the coal and oil that remains in the ground keeps the bulk of the CO2 that was making the climate so dinosaur-friendly out of the atmosphere. [EDIT] This link says the level of CO2 in the air was five times (500%) greater during the time of the dinosaurs than now. It goes on to say the original source of all that carbon dioxide were all those evil volcanoes. http://www.livescience.com/44330-jurassic-dinosaur-carbon-dioxide.html So if the coal seams and unrecoverable oil deposits aren't subducted into the magma, the CO2 in them won't be available to volcanoes either. Of course on a geological time scale they will get subducted eventually (millions of years). Then the climate will be "normal" again. They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
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gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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Guys, there's no point in arguing with deniers. They're not interested in the actual science. Give them a link to Skeptical Science, potholer54 and James Powell's consensus charts and they can educate themselves if they actually want to - but they probably don't. Polybios said: If you don't mind, Ben Delacob, please be so nice as to tell me: is the scene with the "anonymous expert" who only appears as a silhouette part of this video? That one's from "Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura". OP's video has the "paleoclimatologist" who's actually a geochemist. -- |
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Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010
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Only a dinosaur would enjoy a dinosaur's climate. gnolam said: That one's from "Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura [www.imdb.com]".
A distinguished scientist indeed. |
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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Polybios said: Only a dinosaur would enjoy a dinosaur's climate. This chart claims that CO2 has increased from ~315ppm to ~400ppm in the last 50 years. {"name":"600-keeling.png","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/5\/c\/5c6eadb003561d41c6963a566f175d6e.png","w":600,"h":500,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/5\/c\/5c6eadb003561d41c6963a566f175d6e"} Never mind that the CO2 axis doesn't start from zero, a trick they learned from "How To Lie With Statistics", and that the points seem to roughly shove the numbers out of the way like ill-mannered hooligans. So that's an alleged 26% (85ppm) increase in 50 years. To get to the 500% (2000ppm) value of the Cretaceous era would take 500 years. To scare the schoolchildren into getting on the bandwagon, global warming alarmists keep pointing to Venus and saying global warming will destroy the planet before they grow up. To get to the level Venus has (96% carbon dioxide at 92 times the density) goes like this 400ppm = 0.04% CO2 in the atmosphere Now, once again, I'm not saying there isn't global warming, I'm just saying it's blown way out of proportion. [EDIT] Chris Katko said: It'd be pretty hard for any of us to say we know better than NASA in a field without lots of concrete evidence. Just re-reading made me question this. NASA is run by the same government that brought you the Patriot Act, the TSA, the Pentagon Papers, you already know this. And why would NASA be invulnerable to some asshat higher up with an agenda of his own? Especially since they're on such a tight budget already. They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
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Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010
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If it really was a conspiracy by the government (more or less all of them, except Canada, Australia, maybe North Corea^^) AND most of the scientists, then what for? Don't you think it is so much more likely that dull and lazy people just don't want to change their habits / views and fossil fuel companies don't want to ... make less profits? |
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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Polybios said: then what for? Control? As always. Arthur Kalliokoski said: the government likes it because it gives them more excuses to control you. They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
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torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
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Right... {"name":"609652","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/6\/d6d2dfabd06e11894fb97b53d5bcc4a0.jpg","w":550,"h":432,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/6\/d6d2dfabd06e11894fb97b53d5bcc4a0"} |
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Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010
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But there have to be thousands involved, I don't think it's likely in that case. Humans, even evil conspirators, are not that perfect. I wouldn't say "they" won't profit in a way or another (don't know, maybe we'll see more surveillance, control of emissions one day?) but I don't think it is planned with such an objective in this case. The problem is complicated, because "freedom to emit" would probably have to be curtailed in some way some day, either by regulations or by increasing the costs. Of course that's never going to be popular. |
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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Conspiracy... Yeah, Snowden is a liar and fugitive from justice too. They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
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Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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At least the cat's protected, too. -- |
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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010
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Arthur Kalliokoski said: Yeah, Snowden is a liar and fugitive from justice too. "They" would do their job rather badly if they said otherwise. |
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Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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Arthur Kalliokoski said: Never mind that the CO2 axis doesn't start from zero Why would C02 levels be 0? Quote: , a trick they learned from "How To Lie With Statistics", Maybe, the source of this graph is questionable at best. The artistic elements are in fact hilarious, with the C02 overlayed on countries throughout Europe and Africa in the background. Quote: and that the points seem to roughly shove the numbers out of the way like ill-mannered hooligans. Why are you sharing a terrible version of a graph and then complaining about it? Of course it's crap. Where do you even get this garbage? "He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe" |
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Vanneto
Member #8,643
May 2007
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There was once a Reddit AMA about a group of scientists studying climate change denial. One of their goals was how to better educate people like Neil and Arthur i.e. how do you crack a crackpot? So, as a climate change denier, you've got the following: 1.) no good evidence to prove your point and finally 4.) people studying your stupid ass to figure out what makes your ass so stupid Hey, if you can go through life ignorant, why not? In capitalist America bank robs you. |
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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Vanneto said: There was once a Reddit AMA about a group of scientists studying climate change denial So it's Reddit, is it? http://www.reddit.com/r/climateskeptics/ Rational people don't give a damn about the insults your mutual admiration society slings trying to be "cool" and "hip". They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
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