Allegro.cc - Online Community

Allegro.cc Forums » Off-Topic Ordeals » rings

This thread is locked; no one can reply to it. rss feed Print
rings
SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
avatar

I think the reason we have almost 0 regular non lurker female members because they are treated badly.

And I think it's because the average number of them is so low than random fluctuations reduced that number to 0.

"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow."-Ecclesiastes 1:18
[SiegeLord's Abode][Codes]:[DAllegro5]:[RustAllegro]

Simon Parzer
Member #3,330
March 2003
avatar

Maybe the site needs more pink. I'm sure the grey backgrounds don't sit well with female posters.
I love how in these debates on principles everything gets generalized eventually, no matter on what side you are. We are talking about "women", some mysterious abstraction and they apparently are "treated badly". Where are the examples?

Dizzy Egg
Member #10,824
March 2009
avatar

Every post they made, I replied with "yeah yeah yeah, whatever, show us yer boobies"

----------------------------------------------------
Please check out my songs:
https://soundcloud.com/dont-rob-the-machina

Elias
Member #358
May 2000

I'd say allegro.cc is hostile in general (the world is), but at least non-discriminatoryly so :)

--
"Either help out or stop whining" - Evert

Bob Keane
Member #7,342
June 2006

Maybe the site needs more pink.

Also more unicorns. I think women don't visit the site because they don't want to associate with grown men who still live in thier parent's basement.

By reading this sig, I, the reader, agree to render my soul to Bob Keane. I, the reader, understand this is a legally binding contract and freely render my soul.
If we get apple juice from squeezing apples, and we get prunes from drying out plums, where does prune juice come from?
Hi Randall Monroe.

Slartibartfast
Member #8,789
June 2007
avatar

Bob Keane said:

I think women don't visit the site because they don't want to associate with grown men who still live in thier parent's basement.

Man, my parents don't even have a basement!

Elias said:

I'd say allegro.cc is hostile in general

Allegro is pleasantly hostile.

beoran
Member #12,636
March 2011

Actually I don't think it's that pleasant. I think we should try to be more welcoming to everyone here. While I don't mind abstract gender discussions, if anyone posts here, they should be treated with respect regardless. Even clueless newbies should be helped, the fact that they ask means that they want to become "clued", so to speak.

I feel we are, as it is, understaffed for the development of the main Allegro library. Allegro 5.1 already is getting quite nice, but there are still some missing features (haptics, IME), and a lot of bugs that have to be ironed out before we can go to 5.2.

Since about half a year or so, SDL is commercially supported by Valve, and so it's no wonder that it gets all the attention. But Allegro also has a bit of an "unprofessional" stigma I'd love to get rid of. While I really think the Allegro API is better than that of SDL on a technical level, we really should think all together on how to also get more wide interest for Allegro, lest I fear we fall by the wayside. That may include becoming more welcoming to others.

I'll probably start another thread on this though if there is enough interest.

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002

How in the fuck does a conversation about rings turn into a load of bullshit spewed out by a bunch of idiots that don't have a fucking clue what they are talking about?!

I'm been married 29 years now, my wife loves me, I love her. I have never beaten her in my life. She serves me, I serve her.

You people over analyze everything with a liberal amount of bullshit thrown in for good measure.

--
Deluxe Pacman 1 & 2 (free) with source code available
https://nitehackr.github.io/games_index.html

beoran
Member #12,636
March 2011

Hey I'm married too. With child. :) But anyway, this thread is completely derailed already as it stands. I should just leave it alone as it is, but still... :P

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002

That's awesome beoran!
How long have you been married?
We could never have a child sadly. :(

--
Deluxe Pacman 1 & 2 (free) with source code available
https://nitehackr.github.io/games_index.html

beoran
Member #12,636
March 2011

Well, less than 30% of your duration, I guess. I don't quite know what to say to you on the point of children, but you have my sincere sympathies.

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
avatar

NiteHackr said:

I have never beaten her in my life.

This reminds me of when I was a kid and we broke a window with a rock and ran off. The police found us and said "Hey guys, where are you coming from?" and my friend immediately said "We weren't the ones throwing rocks!!"

;)

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Dizzy Egg
Member #10,824
March 2009
avatar

LOOOOOL ;D ;D ;D

----------------------------------------------------
Please check out my songs:
https://soundcloud.com/dont-rob-the-machina

Elias
Member #358
May 2000

but nice guys and po' broke' fools like me don't stand a chance.

Oh, forgot to reply to this earlier, I'm living proof that's not the case :) The problem really is just how to make her find you. (In my case only per chance, probably small enough of a chance that you could call it a miracle, but still...)

To appear somewhat on topic, I have this ring that I would like to be able to give to someone.

I think it's a nice ring. I also gave mine (cheap) earrings for her birthday a year ago, back when we barely knew each other and I had no idea what would be appropriate. But I think she was happy about them :)

--
"Either help out or stop whining" - Evert

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
avatar

I fell in love last summer. It didn't last.

I've thought about her every day since.
Even when I'm fucking someone else, there she is... :'(

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
avatar

At least you're fucking someone else... :P :P :P

Felix the Ghost once told me love lasts about two years, and for the most part he was right. The strongest of the feelings do fade at some point. Or at least un-returned love lasts two years. :P

Dizzy Egg
Member #10,824
March 2009
avatar

Quote:

At least you're ****ing someone else...

Amen to that brother!

----------------------------------------------------
Please check out my songs:
https://soundcloud.com/dont-rob-the-machina

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

Dominance and submission are not hard wired into the male and female brain. I for one, am perfectly fine being on equal footing with women. I don't feel the need to dominate / control / manipulate / coerce / etc. I want an equal partnership, especially in relationships. It's never good when it is all one sided.

Well technically it's not hard wiring. It's more like software. Women naturally have hormones that make them emotional and weak, and men naturally have hormones that make them strong and generally less emotional. That is our natural states. If you pump a man's body full of female hormones he will develop breasts and become an emotional little bitch! :D The fact is that this is how we are meant to be. There's nothing wrong with it. There are benefits to both. Neither is superior. They are equally necessary.

While you could theoretically reprogram us, it isn't wise to tamper with nature because we really don't understand it very well. To some extent they do with women's birth control, albeit I'd argue that they cause unknown "bugs" in doing so. The reliability of that as a contraceptive might outweigh the "bugs" for most people, but nevertheless it's a risky business. I suspect that women's bodies are put through a lot of unnatural processes and strain from the hormonal tampering that modern medicine does. Most people probably don't even think to attribute these side-effects to the birth control.

An "equal partnership" isn't really possible. Somebody always has to surrender or else the relationship cannot work. Compromising is basically surrendering, and successful relationships are built on compromise. That isn't to say that the man is dominant so he always wins. It is very much a balancing act. That said, women naturally do not want to have too many decisions to make. They find it unattractive when men are push-overs. They expect to be told what to do much of the time. I know, it's contrary to what you've been taught, but go ahead and ask them in an unloaded fashion and be amazed. Of course, they don't want to be slaves. They are still free to do as they please in our modern society[1]. However, within the context of your relationship, they expect the man to take charge most of the time.

Dominance is not abuse. Submission is not being victimized. It is a form of cooperation. It is a kind of balance and "equality" between the sexes. Each plays a role in the relationship and each others' strengths and weaknesses combine to form a whole.

This is also how dominance and submission work with wild animals. An alpha wolf is not abusing his subordinates. It is in their best interest to cooperate, and since he is most dominant and likely the strongest he is most capable of providing for and protecting the family. It benefits all of them, and without that relationship they would be unable to cooperate effectively and would be worse off as a result.

Being the "top dog" is not all it's cracked up to be. You may get to make the decisions and have the most privileges, but you also carry the heaviest burdens and responsibilities. It is not "easy" being top dog, and it would be even harder or impossible for a less capable individual to do it. A weak alpha will fail and the family will struggle, suffer, and probably die as a result.

No, this is pretty false. Women have not had access to positions of political power other than by being born into royalty for quite a long time. There has long been male privilege over women. It's only recently the tables have turned. It's hard for men to get used to women in positions of power. Men have been in charge for so long they don't know what its like to be subordinate anymore and it scares them. It's a threat to their masculinity. Women have been and are still being treated like property all over the world, but things have gotten a lot better.

People in positions of power were not given them. They fought for them. They seized them. This is essentially a character trait that is unnatural for most women (and many men). Of course, those people in power probably broke the rules to get to where they are. It isn't a fair game, and it's not just women that lose the fight. When women choose not to pursue powerful positions, or fail to take them, that isn't discrimination against them.

What do you think of this poem and journal article from deviantArt? -

I need feminism because
It’s acceptable to call me a slut.

It's acceptable to call men all kinds of heinous names too, whether they are deserving of them or not. Cry me a river. That's not necessarily discrimination, and it's certainly not unique to women.

"Slut" is a term generally reserved for women that exhibit behaviors that are harmful for society. Sex is a beautiful thing, but sex with lots of partners you barely know is risky, and it lacks the intimacy and cooperation that is necessary for our mental health and survival.

Women that sleep around a lot are less valuable. If you don't think it matters then let's all get together and pass your wife around (if she consents, of course!). I don't imagine you'd like that very much.

Slut shaming is essentially society's way of discouraging bad behavior. Of course, as with all words, it can be used and abused. Sticks and stones, etc. Women are probably equally guilty of using it as men are, if not more so.

I need feminism because
It’s okay for a guy to slap my butt.

I need feminism because
I should look good for men to see.

I need feminism because
Girls think it’s cool to shame each other.

None of these are men's fault. All of these are natural behaviors, and typically women are more responsible for them than men are. Feminism does not do anything to address these things.

Butt Slaps

Nobody can decide if it's OK for a guy to slap a girl's butt except for that girl. It's her responsibility to tell them it's not OK. A lot of girls do not object, and even want and encourage it. Feminism can't stop this because ultimately women get to choose for themselves if they will allow men to slap their butts, and the men don't know until they try! To make matters worse, there probably are women that don't want it, but don't tell the men that they don't want it. This is not the men's fault. This is female nature. Feminism cannot fix that.

Feminism has succeeded in creating a society where a man is essentially guilty no matter what he does. Women are confusing. They are contradictory and illogical. If a man doesn't "slap the girl's butt" (or take similar, equivalent, spontaneous initiatives that individual women might object to, like kissing them, copping a feel, etc., without explicit permission) then many girls would not find the man attractive. Most women don't want an explicit dialogue of asking and getting permission for these things. That is a complete turn off for them. They want the man to take the initiative without knowing if he's allowed. The contradiction is that women have the ability to decide that they didn't want that interaction with specific guys and condemn them for it with real world consequences.

They can press criminal charges, or seek more localized consequences like being expelled from a school, or fired from a job, or kicked out of an event, group, or business, etc. It is a contradiction because women still do want men to spontaneously interact with them in these ways without knowing if they're allowed, but the women reserve the right whether to welcome it or condemn it. The men have absolutely no way of knowing which one it is until they try, and it differs on a case by case basis (the same woman might welcome or condemn a particular action from different guys or even the same guy depending on how she feels about that particular case in the moment). Since men cannot know how the woman will take it they are left with two unappealing choices: either don't act and probably lose before the game starts, or act and risk condemnation for the reward. It is lose-lose for men.

It is not men's fault that women's desires are contradictory.

Aesthetics

Attraction is an automatic function of human nature and not something that people can control. It's true that women are generally judged on aesthetic beauty because that is the primary way that men identify valuable partners. It isn't one-sided though because women are equally critical of men, but in different ways. While men are mostly focused on physical attractiveness, women are mostly focused on material wealth and power. When surveyed about how attractive a particular man is women's rankings go up the more rich and powerful they perceive the man to be (almost regardless of how he looks or what his other qualities are). It isn't a conscious choice for the women any more than it is for the man. This is naturally how we are wired.

Of course, women take it above and beyond what men like. Women compete with each other and take it to unnecessary extremes in ways that men often don't even like. Make-up, high-heels, breast/ass size enhancements or implants, revealing clothing, etc. A lot of it is unnecessary and even counter-productive, but they learn what men want from other women that don't understand men either, and mostly by industries built around exploiting women's obsession with their appearance and inability to understand men.

Personally, I don't prefer women in make-up, high-heels or other flashy footwear, with excessive breasts/ass, or wearing tight or revealing clothing in public. Sharing that with the rest of the world reduces her value in my eyes. I'm not alone because it has been documented that many men find women that are hiding their bodies more attractive than women that are revealing them.

The amount of trouble that women go to to be attractive to men is counter-productive and completely not men's fault. Most men do not want that from a wife. If at all, they want that from a drunk slut whose name they don't care about. Most men want to keep our women to ourselves, and want to make wholesome wives and mothers out of them.

Insert: I forgot to address girls shaming each other, but it should be obvious to any person with critical thinking how this isn't men's fault and how Feminism does not address it.

I need feminism because
It’s my own fault if a man rapes me.

It's not that it's a woman's fault if she gets raped by a man. It's that it can be extremely hard to catch rapists or prove that rape occurred, and women are basically asking for it and refuse to accept any responsibility for their actions. I know, I know, the manginas are going to come crying to the rescue, "you're a rape apologist, it's never a woman's fault if she gets raped, no matter what she does it isn't her fault." Waa, waa, waa.

If you wear an overtly racist T-shirt in a poverty stricken neighborhood primarily inhabited by the targeted racial minority and get assaulted or killed it is generally wrong for the attacker to have assaulted or shot you, but you're still responsible for provoking the reaction.

The problem with women, and Feminism has pushed this to the extreme, is that they don't accept any responsibility for their actions. And society doesn't hold them accountable so why would they? Well, fuck you then. It is what it is. Go cry to somebody else. It is wrong to rape a woman that dresses provocatively, or drinks to the point of losing control of her faculties in public, but she is still responsible for making herself an easy target. Life is not fair, the world is not a safe place, and we cannot protect women from it without quarantining them from it. And they won't let us do that anymore.

I need feminism because
People think it means ‘anti-man’.

Feminist politics ultimately harm men and its outspoken activists are openly hateful towards men. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, etc. Feminism is a forever tainted movement. Even though there are people that identify as Feminists that don't hate men, the movement itself is very much anti-man, and that can never be erased. Feminism is forever ruined by the current "wave", and the damage that is being done may significantly hinder further progress towards addressing actual artificial inequalities. It would be wise for women to separate themselves from the word and for people of all demographics to form a new movement with unbiased agendas.

I need feminism because
I can’t do things that men can.

Feminism will not change this. Women are not men, and generally there are physiological differences between them that cannot be changed. Men cannot menstruate. Women cannot ejaculate sperm. For some less obvious and more controversial examples, men are generally faster, stronger, and arguably smarter than women. That last point is difficult or impossible to prove, but the inverse is equally difficult or impossible to prove. The other points are pretty well established facts that only stupid people debate.

I need feminism because
The world has higher hopes for my brother.

Feminism is not good for her brother. Feminism is harmful to men. Feminism is essentially turning her brother, and all men, into slaves to the system. 100% of the responsibilities and ever declining percentage of the corresponding privileges.

I need feminism because
My femininity makes me ‘weak’.

Weakness is a subjective measurement, but the weaknesses of femininity cannot be erased with politics. Women are generally weaker: physically, emotionally, perhaps mentally. They have strengths though where men have weaknesses. The best way to overcome the weaknesses of women is to pair them with men that supplement their abilities. They both have strengths and weaknesses, but being together can help to make up for those weaknesses by sharing each others' strengths.

Feminism has the opposite effect of bringing men and women together. Feminism has a tendency to put men and women at odds with each other. The ways that Feminism attempts to "rectify" women's weaknesses are by applying biases to the system to make up for what women lack. That doesn't make women stronger. It generally impairs men to bring them down to the women's level, or forces the system to turn a blind eye of ignorance towards women's weaknesses to sweep them under the rug. The first rule of women not being as good as men at something is you don't talk about women not being as good as men at something(tm).

Men are not idiots. They know when the women aren't pulling their weight and as a result they lose respect for women and the system, which is the exact opposite outcome to what Feminism is supposed to be intended to achieve. We may not talk about it when women are around, but when the women aren't around freely discuss it amongst ourselves. This is not a failing of men. This is a failing of Feminism and women.

You should be hopefully picking up on a theme here, but your mangina might be cramping so I'll repeat it anyway: these "weaknesses" of femininity are not weaknesses at all. Women are different. Different is not bad. They are exactly how they are supposed to be. The problem is Feminists trying to convince women and society as a whole that women are like men instead.

I need feminism because
If I act masculine I’m a ‘freak’.

Feminism cannot make it OK for you to be something that you are not. Women being masculine and men being feminine is more of a transgender issue, which Feminism is generally not fighting for (i.e., trans-gendered women are not "real" women according to many Feminists, and their issues don't matter to the movement). Even though Feminism actually encourages women to be masculine, Feminism is very anti-masculine (nobody ever said that women had to make sense). Not only is Feminism generally lose-lose for men, it is generally lose-lose for women too.

Women that act masculine are generally well accepted to a point: "tomboys". Most guys love this kind of girl. They actually make a little bit of sense! They like to do the things that boys like to do, and they do a lot less of the stupid shit that girls do that guys hate.

Of course, there are always people that are intolerant of people that are different then them. A lot of the things this girl is writing about sound less like social issues and more like teenage angst. Other girls may not like tomboys because they are essentially opposites, and the tomboys are probably rather threatening to regular women.

Of course, there is a point where gender begins to blur and it's no longer a woman that is acting masculine, but a transgendered-man with tits. This is a grey area for most people. I have come to realize that these people should be tolerated, accepted, and respected like any others. Still, by definition they are in a way freaks of nature. That doesn't make them bad or wrong, just different.

I need feminism because
My boobs are my ‘best quality’.

Men are generally nowhere near as shallow as media make them out to be. That said, men are naturally programmed to need sex, and sex happens to be one of the most valuable uses for women by men. It's not really surprising that we would hold sexual qualities in high esteem. That said, sex is a temporary need. Once it is met and our brains are cleared we can appreciate all of the other qualities of women.

Of course, women also have a tendency to emphasize their sexuality. This more or less traces back to the point about aesthetics above. If women emphasize their sexuality above their other qualities then naturally men are going to focus on their sexuality. If women emphasize their other values then men will be able to better appreciate those.

Both men and women are inherently valuable to one another in different ways, and there's nothing wrong with that. In the best case, we find a pairing that allows a balanced mutual gain.

Of course, Feminists have a tendency to try to promote values in women that men already have themselves. It shouldn't surprise anyone when men can't appreciate those as much, particularly for qualities that are stronger in a particular man than they are in a particular woman or women in general. If a man already has that then why would he need women for it?

Insert: Often these conflicting qualities also challenge gender roles and emasculate men that are weaker in a typically male-dominated quality. Most men will not find it attractive for a woman to be physically stronger, faster, or smarter than them. That doesn't make it wrong for women to be stronger in these areas, but it might make those women unattractive to those men that are sensitive to their own weaknesses in areas where they should stereotypically be stronger than her. For example, most men do not find body-building women attractive. That is not a quality that we seek from women. They are capable of manipulating their bodies to build more muscle than the average man has. It generally will not attract men to them though, and in most cases is probably a turn off (which is natural and normal and not wrong).

I need feminism because
I believe in equality.

Feminism does not promote equality. Feminism promotes inequality favoring women. If you care to refute this claim then please show me concrete evidence of how it is benefiting men. The superficial claims made so far in this thread are unsubstantiated, insignificant, and vague.

The journal has received over 12,000 comments and the poem itself has received over 4,000 comments by now.

Popular ideas are not necessarily right ideas. Feminism is in fashion right now. Women are cheered on for it, and men are praised for supporting it. That doesn't make it right or valid. It just makes it popular and politically correct.

I thought of writing a poetic retort called I need masculinism about how women have so much more privelege than men in some areas like in bam's first post but then I'd sound like a chauvinist. :P

This is a prime example of the harm that Feminism does. It is essentially censoring your freedom of expression for fear of condemnation. I choose to be unafraid of what people think of my ideas. Being wrong is great because you learn something and better your ideas. Being right is great too because you teach somebody else something and better their ideas. The goal of the sharing of ideas should be to identify the better ideas and improve our collective knowledge.

* * *

This post is already quite long so I'll take a break and wait to respond to the other new posts. >:( Hopefully Matthew doesn't lock the thread before I get a chance.

References

  1. In past societies it is easy to argue why women would not have such a freedom. Men and women very much depended on one another. If the woman gets herself kidnapped, killed, or just runs off, the man would have a hard time taking care of the house and children on his own. An argument could also be made for why that should still be the case today, albeit it's a weaker one. I doubt that anyone else here is capable of thinking of this objectively, which probably explains why it's in the "footnotes". The reason why the restriction is placed on the woman and not the man goes back to dominance: the man is stronger and more capable of taking on the responsibilities for the family. It isn't a perfectly fair situation, but it is a mutually beneficial one (except in cases of abuse, but there were generally exceptions for those cases even in ancient societies).
Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

And with that great wall of text, we now know how bambam spent the night of Tuesday, March 25th, 2014.

While I agree with what you start off saying, you lost me at the butt slaps, and I saw it still went on for another few chapters, so I gave up.

You can say more with less. You know if you post something that long, people will only quote your most outlandish statement and forget about anything sensible you may have accidentally said. 8-)

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Matthew, this site badly needs some +1 buttons ;) There's a few posts in here I'd thumb up (one is your last message), but I can't :(

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Elias
Member #358
May 2000

Matthew, this site badly needs some +1 buttons

Please no. Instead add a -1 button which I can click on every post suggesting a +1 button.

--
"Either help out or stop whining" - Evert

Dizzy Egg
Member #10,824
March 2009
avatar

Or, failing that, give bamerang a 40 paragraph limit.

----------------------------------------------------
Please check out my songs:
https://soundcloud.com/dont-rob-the-machina

SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
avatar

I just don't read those posts anymore. If you can't express yourself briefly, why waste everybody's time posting at all? Plus I'm sure it's the usual insane historical revisioninsm.

"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow."-Ecclesiastes 1:18
[SiegeLord's Abode][Codes]:[DAllegro5]:[RustAllegro]

Vanneto
Member #8,643
May 2007

If Matthew and bamccaig team up and create some audio books from those posts. Man... I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

In capitalist America bank robs you.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Elias said:

Please no. Instead add a -1 button which I can click on every post suggesting a +1 button.

I'd settle for only a -1 button. Don't limit it to just posts suggesting a +1 button ;)

SiegeLord said:

I just don't read those posts anymore. If you can't express yourself briefly, why waste everybody's time posting at all? Plus I'm sure it's the usual insane historical revisioninsm.

I pretty much don't have the time to read through bambams posts anymore. And I never had the patience... Such wall. Many text. wow.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730



Go to: