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| Looking for math library |
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William Labbett
Member #4,486
March 2004
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Edgar Reynaldo said: This is what I can't grasp. Isn't is simple ? You've got an infinite number of rooms. Which means no matter how many you use, there'll also be more of them spare. You just consider the odd numbered ones : you've still got the same situation. You won't run out of empty rooms no matter how people want to stay in them.
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Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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This also bothers me (infinite guests in an infinite roomed hotel leaving @James Lohr Even given that information, it is still far simpler to represent one tenth in decimal than binary. My Website! | EAGLE GUI Library Demos | My Deviant Art Gallery | Spiraloid Preview | A4 FontMaker | Skyline! (Missile Defense) Eagle and Allegro 5 binaries | Older Allegro 4 and 5 binaries | Allegro 5 compile guide |
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Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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Edgar Reynaldo said: This is what I can't grasp. It's quite simple. In layman's terms: If you want to count all the even-numbered rooms, you'll never finish. If you want to count all the rooms, you'll also never finish. That's what cardinality is about (in simplified terms). Using the 2n proof: If you want to show that any whole number n exists for which 2*n does not exist, then you will have to walk the list of whole numbers and check each one, until you reach one that you cannot multiply by 2. If you do this, you will never stop walking the list, because it does not end. Infinity is not a number, not even an incredibly large one. It's a concept. And because of this, the rules that apply to numbers do not apply to infinity. You cannot subtract anything from infinity, in fact, you cannot perform any arithmetic on it at all. It's not a number. Back to your original problem. Computers use binary numbers to do their calculations, which means they can, by nature, only deal with whole numbers (and a limited range of them at that). However, most things in life don't map nicely to whole numbers, so people invented a bunch of strategies to overcome this problem:
And now comes the problem. While each of these can represent a particular subset of the set of real numbers, none of them can represent them all. One can at least represent all rational numbers, the rest of them can't even do that. All but the fraction approach have one numeric base for which they can offer exact representations, while all other rational numbers can only be approximated. --- |
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William Labbett
Member #4,486
March 2004
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Edgar Reynaldo said:
This also bothers me (infinite guests in an infinite roomed hotel leaving No, an infinite number of guest would match an inifinite number of rooms 1 for 1.
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Oscar Giner
Member #2,207
April 2002
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Edgar Reynaldo said:
{2,4,6...2n} But those are finite sets. An infinite set doesn't have a last element (or it can have a last element, but then it cannot have a first element (for countable sets, which those both are)). So for those sets to be infinite, elements n+1, n+2... do actually exist. So what you actually have is: Quote: The cardinality of {2,4...2n} will never equal the cardinality of {1,2...2n} Of course the cardinality of {2,4...2n} is less than the cardinality of {1,2...2n}. But you did the same mistake: those are finite sets, not infinite. And no, saying that n = infinite is not valid, because that would make you claim that an infinite set has a last element (thus not being infinite... so... are you saying that infinite sets are not infinite?). The error you're doing again and again is extrapolating rules that apply to finite sets to infinite sets. You're trying to "prove" your believes on infinite sets by proving those believes are actually true for finite sets. -- |
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Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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Think about it this way. We all know in a finite set of integers from 1 to 2n there are 2n integers and n even integers. Why does this suddenly stop being true when you can no longer count n? It's just not right. My Website! | EAGLE GUI Library Demos | My Deviant Art Gallery | Spiraloid Preview | A4 FontMaker | Skyline! (Missile Defense) Eagle and Allegro 5 binaries | Older Allegro 4 and 5 binaries | Allegro 5 compile guide |
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Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Edgar Reynaldo said: Why does this suddenly stop being true when you can no longer count n?
It does. You can easily show that it does. There's no more to it than that. Quote: It's just not right.
It's 100% right. It's just counterintuitive (or rather, you don't have the right kind of intuition). If you want to raise an objection, find a fault in the logic of the proof. "I don't understand how this works" is not a valid objection. |
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Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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What's the limit of (2n/n) as n approaches infinity? Two. You'd have me believe it suddenly stops being 2 and becomes 1. That's hogwash. Like I said before, you're comparing unequal ranges : The idea that there are twice as many integers as even integers cannot simultaneously be both true and false. Don't try to convince me further. Arbitrarily breaking rules that apply to countable numbers just so uncountable numbers will work is crap. My Website! | EAGLE GUI Library Demos | My Deviant Art Gallery | Spiraloid Preview | A4 FontMaker | Skyline! (Missile Defense) Eagle and Allegro 5 binaries | Older Allegro 4 and 5 binaries | Allegro 5 compile guide |
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Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Closing thread to save somebody from wasting time with a response. |
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