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My new ride
Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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2000 Cavalier Crash Results said:

"Side Driver Impact: 1/5 stars safety concern"

Holy crap?! How was that car allowed to be made?

That is NOT something you "just over look." GM's managers made the conscious decision to produce that car in spite of the information presented. GM is dead to me if a car made in the year 2000 can be allowed to be produced with that low of a safety standard. You can make a go-kart with higher rating than 1-star.

Moreover, the 2005 version has the same problem. You'd think in five years, they'd address a serious issue such as the death of their drivers. Side impacts often occur in situations where the suffering drivers did nothing wrong to deserve it (someone running a red line and striking you).

The Dodge Neon (Chrysler of all people) had 2/5 front, 3/5 rear in 1999. Still more than the Cavalier and with the model update in 2000, bumped the front up to 3/5 stars. As in, they actually tried to improve the safety.

I'm offended that GM would screw us like that. Is Ford the only one left that actually cares? Did they learn from the Pinto scandal? Ford's Mustang and Escort for 1999 get 3/5 and 3/5 for both side impact results.

Here's something for perspective: My brothers convertible 2002 Mustang GT (same generation as the 1999) gets 2/5, 3/5, front and rear respectively. The CONVERTIBLE (meaning it has no top to provide structural reinforcement) has a better rating. My Sebring doesn't have impact data, but the newer (2001) Sebring convertible has 3/5, 4/5! Apparently Chrysler (reliability aside) wants its drivers to live.

Well, I've adjusted my stances on the big three (I'm sure you all think I'm bigoted against Chrysler). Chrysler still can't make a proper car, but at least they don't want you to die. The 1996 Sebring (non-conv) gets 5/5, 5/5 crash test rating for front and rear impacts. Ford is in the right direction. GM doesn't give a flying monkey fuck about you.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Don't worry, I don't have any plans on entering a destruction derby contest.

Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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You don't always get to choose ;)

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Trust me, if a tractor plows through me, I'd rather be in a car that kills me.

Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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Quote:

GM's managers made the conscious decision to produce that car in spite of the information presented.

Never trust a car manufacturer. Look up ford pinser (I think that was the name, it's from memory off a long time ago). A design flaw with the petrol tank location meant a rear shunt could cause the car to catch fire/explode. During investigations after a number of deaths, it showed that ford knew about the fault and had estimated the cost of a recall was more than the cost of compensation and so did not fix the problem.

Neil.
MAME Cabinet Blog / AXL LIBRARY (a games framework) / AXL Documentation and Tutorial

wii:0356-1384-6687-2022, kart:3308-4806-6002. XBOX:chucklepie

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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Ford had that fiasco with the crown victoria fuel tanks exploding when rearended. When police cruisers were blowing up left and right from being rearended when blocking traffic, they did a recall IMO. Their fix? Install a fire suppression system, instead of fixing the issue.

Also, I've never heard of a camera that blurs license plates automatically, so like Neil wants to, I'll call BS on that. I think Yves is just paranoid, he tends to blur out a lot of meaningless info in screenshots, etc. :P

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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I'm pretty sure Yves was just being sarcastic about the camera censoring the license plate... ::) Although I think it's a feasible technology.

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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Why is it feasible?

Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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License plate obscuring film on top of license plate maybe? To avoid speed cameras and what not. Looks a bit to good (labor intensive) to be blurred in post-production ;)

relay01
Member #6,988
March 2006
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Not enough results in Google to make me believe it... I call BS... you paranoid liar...

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le_y_mistar
Member #8,251
January 2007
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i've turned off the privacy feature off my camera, enjoy my license plate

{"name":"14406160.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/5\/652137b5a70b0228ae4cc4e7988e6e83.jpg","w":604,"h":453,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/5\/652137b5a70b0228ae4cc4e7988e6e83"}14406160.jpg

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I'm hell of an awesome guy :)

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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You couldn't find a better parking lot to take the photo in? :P You're (?) practically standing in a puddle!

le_y_mistar
Member #8,251
January 2007
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toronto is full of potholes, the idea of taking a pic came from my friend, it was all of a sudden so we took it right there and then, he liked the idea of taking a pic with excessive potholes

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I'm hell of an awesome guy :)

Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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Those potholes are part of the inheritance from British rule. It is by law in England that every road is full of holes and that they are badly maintained.

However, you'd also think being an ex-British colony you'd drive on the correct side of the road ;)

Neil.
MAME Cabinet Blog / AXL LIBRARY (a games framework) / AXL Documentation and Tutorial

wii:0356-1384-6687-2022, kart:3308-4806-6002. XBOX:chucklepie

SailorMoonchld
Member #3,814
August 2003
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Nice car! Looks like it is fun to drive! I love my Beetle, however, it doesn't like car seats.. So I think I may have to find another car if I can't find a better car seat that would fit better in my car than the 2 I have already. (They were free!)

Sabrina: I've sigged you, will you sig me? -Thomas Fjellstrom

12-06-07

Slartibartfast
Member #8,789
June 2007
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Quote:

Those potholes are part of the inheritance from British rule. It is by law in England that every road is full of holes and that they are badly maintained.

So that explains it.

(A lot of our law is based on English law passed down to us from the time of their mandate over here. Until several years ago our only copyright law began with something along the lines of "By order of the queen of England...")

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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My car looks like this:

{"name":"6th-Mitsubishi-Galant.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/1\/d195c506bdc58c79e7218e614ebca350.jpg","w":2048,"h":1172,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/1\/d195c506bdc58c79e7218e614ebca350"}6th-Mitsubishi-Galant.jpg

Except with lots of dents, black tape holding the boot down, and rust.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Quote:

Trust me, if a tractor plows through me, I'd rather be in a car that kills me.

I was sarcastic too until it happened. I've been in a caravan that decided the crumple zone involved my floorboard, crushing my legs beneath the dash. And just a few months ago, a girl decided that her blazer was a good fit for my drivers side door. Doing only 10-15 mph, her radiator came within inches of my face. Safety matters, because while YOU can avoid over 90% of accidents just by being an ACTUAL driver, those last 10% you don't have a choice. They pick you. Those are the ones you should worry about and work to prevent. Because they're not even your fault. Being safe got you pegged anyway (as opposed to asking for it).

That's why side impact standards matter so much.

Quote:

Never trust a car manufacturer. Look up ford pinser

Quote:

Ford had that fiasco with the crown victoria fuel tanks exploding when rearended. When police cruisers were blowing up left and right from being rearended when blocking traffic, they did a recall IMO. Their fix? Install a fire suppression system, instead of fixing the issue.

Ford Pinto.

The Crown Victoria incident, however, was outside of the tested range of the car (above speed limits at 70-75mph and exacerbated untrained modifications to panels near the fuel tank). So it's different from knowing about a serious problem and ignoring it (like in the case of the Pinto). The safety ratings of the car? 5/5, 5/5 for front and rear impact. 4/5, 5/5 for side impacts for front and rear passengers respectively. When it came to the actual tests, they performed wonderful. But police blocking was outside standard consumer tests.

Honda CR-Vs are actually horrific in the same way. In my home town, a Mustang was drag racing a Corvette down a dense street late at night. At over 100 MPH, the Mustang came over a hill and rear-ended two girls in a CR-V waiting at a red light. The car immediately lifted and exploded. Both girls were engulfed in flames immediately. One died in the flames, the other got out only to watch her friend die in the flames before EMS could save her.

I don't think the CR-V is unsafe. Hondas have always seemed to be safe (though I haven't looked up information--just word-of-mouth). But some things really can't be prepared for. And no amount of preparation (except maybe a NASCAR space frame) can save you from that. A better solution is to stop people from doing stupid stuff like that. I don't mind people racing... but it better not be endangering innocent people. That's a special kind of sick-in-the-head. To risk innocent peoples lives for short-term entertainment. Moreover, people who run red lights (without stopping) are especially sick in the head. They think your life is less important the 3 minutes of their time. And they should all die for their incredible selfishness before they kill someone innocent. (Come to think of it, an old bastard almost killed me by running a red light as I had legal turn signal and had I not saved myself he would have rolled my car into three more cars.)

Come to think of it... I don't like driving anymore. :'(

One quick append because it's cool to look at:
image.ashx
08 Sebring Convertible Frontal Hit. Notice how the passenger box is virtually unaffected. Even without a top to provide stiffness. That hit stopped the car. Which is very impressive from an engineering perspective. Nobody in the 1950's thought that was possible.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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It's okay. If I ever come through Tennessee, I'm bringing my Hummer.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Don't forget that issue a few years ago where the ignition system would catch fire and most likely cause the entire vehicle to go up in flames. I think they fixed that one with a patch too.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Don Freeman
Member #5,110
October 2004
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It would be fitting if they had a "we accept patches" kind of outlook...:P

--
"Everyone tells me I should forget about you, you don’t deserve me. They’re right, you don’t deserve me, but I deserve you."
"It’s so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don’t say it."

le_y_mistar
Member #8,251
January 2007
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With windchill it's -26 degrees Celsius (= -14.8 degrees Fahrenheit) and it caused on of the joints of the pipes to leak coolant. Tomorrow is going to be interesting.

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I'm hell of an awesome guy :)

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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Weird that it would leak from the cold, unless your coolant mix was wrong and it started to freeze or something.

I can't complain about my car, even when we had the -30F windchills a couple months ago it started right up without giving too much grief. I only had one incident that left me stranded, that was when my radiator blew. The radiator cap was old and the pressure relief in it wasn't working right, it was a hot summer day (around 98F) and I was beating on it a little then shut it off to go inside a store. It was hot enough that the cap should have boiled off a little into the overflow tank (the radiator was half clogged - it was the original one from 1990, so the fact that it was a little hot wasn't surprising). Well, the pressure relief didn't let go, and it blew a chunk out of the plastic top on the radiator, spraying coolant all over the place. Other than that, it's only had minor issues that didn't hinder functionality (except for when one of my fuel injectors shat out and I had to drive home on 3 cylinders, but that was no huge deal).

le_y_mistar
Member #8,251
January 2007
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i'm using a 50/50 mix, when i got it second day i noticed that coolant level was low, but with the cold leak has gotten bigger.it literally drips when i start it...i pushed it quite a bit today and did a whole 100kms.

Chris, I'm thinking of getting a sebring as a daily driver/beater, the fact that it still runs and is cheap to maintain is alluring, same goes with the hyunday elantra/accent

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I'm hell of an awesome guy :)

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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I was disappointed when my car started up the morning it was -20F without windchill factored in. Instead, I had to get in, and drive to university. That was the coldest day ever. >:(



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