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Piracy redux |
OnlineCop
Member #7,919
October 2006
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I've read all but the last few pages (DRM), but I plan to finish those as time permits. I had wondered why they don't come out with the PC version of most of the titles I'd like to play. It makes a lot of sense to say that piracy is a very large factor for porting the games from a console to the "more accessible" but "less controllable" medium of PC. I understood that knowing your target hardware specs adds all sorts of levels of complexity and difficulty to the design, especially when deciding which features, levels, modes, controller inputs, etc. to add, remove, or tweak. What was educational for me was learning about the episodic releases.
I would like to think that "my game idea" will someday become a world phenomenon that everyone talks about and plays. But we all know that a game will be popular for a short while before being replaced by the next "great game" that comes out. So having different Episodes for the same game, a few years apart, ensures that "my dream lives on". I also know that "I already like this game" when the expansion packs come out. If it's the same engine (maybe a few additions and tweaks excepting), I don't have to worry that "Oh no; this new expansion pack for Sims 2 totally wrecked everything I've ever worked for! It's terrible! My Sims 2 game now sucks!" Also, I understand that "the total price" of the Episodic games costs more in the long run, since you have to lay down $10-$15 (or $20-$25 if you get greedy) each time there's another "expansion pack", but I find that taking a $10 hit to to wallet every few years is easier than a big chunk of money all at once. (Would you rather have to pay your bills like rent/loans/medical all at once, or have "I can live with that" installments over an extended period of time?)
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Kitty Cat
Member #2,815
October 2002
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Quote: Also, I understand that "the total price" of the Episodic games costs more in the long run, since you have to lay down $10-$15 (or $20-$25 if you get greedy) each time there's another "expansion pack", but I find that taking a $10 hit to to wallet every few years is easier than a big chunk of money all at once. The main thing that bugs me about episodic games is that they aren't a "complete" game. Being able to play through a game the first time all the way through would be a rather different experience than playing through one part, another part later, another part later, another later, then finally getting a conclusion. "The whole is more than the sum of its parts," as it were. Would also compound the problem of not ending a series when it should be ended, instead keeping it going to milk more and more money from people. Of course you could just wait until enough of the episodes are released then get it all at once, but that just adds more time to the already-elongated development time of games these days, and runs greater risks of running across spoilers and other information you don't want to know until you see it yourself. -- |
Trezker
Member #1,739
December 2001
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My opinion is that if you pirate the game after purchasing it, or in some way has problems because of DRM/copy protection. Then you should demand your money back. No one should ever pirate anything. I think that angry guy in he video who apparently keeps buying games despite being well aware that he's gonna have to crack them is an idiot. He shouldn't support the companies who do this to him. By giving them money he is just enabling them. Is he so addicted to gaming that he can't live without these games? |
Kitty Cat
Member #2,815
October 2002
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Quote: He shouldn't support the companies who do this to him. Considering the number of choices he has of companies that don't do it (very few), then are we supposed to just let PC gaming die because no one's buying and everyone just screams "zOMGPIRaCY!!!1!1"? Also consider the following.. Oblivion came with nearly no copy protection. People bought it (including myself, and some, like myself, because it had no copy protection) and it became a top-selling PC game. Despite that, it's expansion, Shivering Isle, came with SecuROM. Fallout 3 also comes with SecuROM. I have not and will not buy either of those as long as that's part of the deal. Bethesda lately has been complaining about piracy. See the problem here? EDIT: -- |
Trezker
Member #1,739
December 2001
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Quote: Considering the number of choices he has of companies that don't do it (very few), then are we supposed to just let PC gaming die because no one's buying and everyone just screams "zOMGPIRaCY!!!1!1"? Well, as you say there are actually a few actors on the scene that don't do it. They will keep on doing business as usual, maybe a little more... So how do you reckon PC gaming dies? Sure, if the "bad" companies don't adjust, the market will see a big decline in new titles, but I can live with that. I'm sure it'll recover, and be much better, after the revolution. |
bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Read the article. They discuss exactly how the PC market has been changing (in many of the ways you guys are complaining about) to adjust and how they're likely to change in the future. Essentially developing PC games that require Internet access to unlock and/or have online gameplay that would reduce the effectiveness of piracy (the reasoning being that piracy is so bad that the consumers without an Internet connection are fewer than the ones pirating who would otherwise pay -- so STFU about your lost business). One of the side effects of this is that entire PC genres have been disappearing because they don't fit the online model. They are no longer profitable on the PC platform (adventure gaming was an example given by the OP's article). DRM is of course another way in which the PC market has been changing. As the author of the article said, whenever the pirates bitch about forcing the entertainment industry to adjust, they should be careful what they wish for. As mentioned, the industry is adjusting and has been and you haven't liked any of their adjustments. As I said, poisoning your own well. I appear to have gotten a pirated copy of the Friends series on DVD for Christmas.
-- acc.js | al4anim - Allegro 4 Animation library | Allegro 5 VS/NuGet Guide | Allegro.cc Mockup | Allegro.cc <code> Tag | Allegro 4 Timer Example (w/ Semaphores) | Allegro 5 "Winpkg" (MSVC readme) | Bambot | Blog | C++ STL Container Flowchart | Castopulence Software | Check Return Values | Derail? | Is This A Discussion? Flow Chart | Filesystem Hierarchy Standard | Clean Code Talks - Global State and Singletons | How To Use Header Files | GNU/Linux (Debian, Fedora, Gentoo) | rot (rot13, rot47, rotN) | Streaming |
alethiophile
Member #9,349
December 2007
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Quote: As the author of the article said, whenever the pirates bitch about forcing the entertainment industry to adjust, they should be careful what they wish for. As mentioned, the industry is adjusting and has been and you haven't liked any of their adjustments. The idea of forcing the entertainment industry to adjust generally is meant to be more like forcing them to stop trying to sustain the current IP model by legislative fiat when its time has obviously come and gone. -- |
Kitty Cat
Member #2,815
October 2002
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Quote: As the author of the article said, whenever the pirates bitch about forcing the entertainment industry to adjust, they should be careful what they wish for. As mentioned, the industry is adjusting and has been and you haven't liked any of their adjustments.
Because throwing the baby out with the bath water works just so darn well. I've made my point.. this isn't about "right or wrong", it's about the core issues surround the problems of declining PC game quality and support. You cannot properly fix the problem if you don't even know what the problem that you need to fix is. Piracy is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.. which, IMO, are people not buying crappy hyped up games as much as they used to, bloating development costs with the expectation to magically make it all back with a good game, and that some games just don't sell for no discernable reason (but who knows what the problem really is; it's not like they're trying to find out). Of course, having large conglomerates willing and able to buy out anything and anyone showing genuine talent in making PC games, just to force their will upon them and turn them into money vaccuums doesn't help. And really, would the likes of Sony and Microsoft really care if the PC gaming division is bringing in crappy returns? With everything else they're involved in and the money they get from it, keeping PC gaming lucrative probably isn't their highest priority. THey have music, consoles, and OSs to worry about. So, I'm honestly curious.. how would you fix the problem here? -- |
bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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@Kitty Cat: It seems pretty clear by your remarks that you haven't read the article. If you want to discuss this then read the article first. It's very well written and worth reading. Basically, all the excuses you're making are disputed with data and logic. A lot more sound logic than that of pirates. And many of the problems you claim exist that justify piracy are also disputed with sound logic and data. -- acc.js | al4anim - Allegro 4 Animation library | Allegro 5 VS/NuGet Guide | Allegro.cc Mockup | Allegro.cc <code> Tag | Allegro 4 Timer Example (w/ Semaphores) | Allegro 5 "Winpkg" (MSVC readme) | Bambot | Blog | C++ STL Container Flowchart | Castopulence Software | Check Return Values | Derail? | Is This A Discussion? Flow Chart | Filesystem Hierarchy Standard | Clean Code Talks - Global State and Singletons | How To Use Header Files | GNU/Linux (Debian, Fedora, Gentoo) | rot (rot13, rot47, rotN) | Streaming |
alethiophile
Member #9,349
December 2007
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Given all the problems involved, to claim that piracy is the only problem and the root of all the others is simplistic and stupid. -- |
Kitty Cat
Member #2,815
October 2002
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Quote: @Kitty Cat: It seems pretty clear by your remarks that you haven't read the article. I have read (most of) the article, and as I said, I find it flawed. Taking numbers that are just supposed to be "rough estimations" and later herald them as the truth. Brushing off arguments against the companies, and just plain ignoring information. I mean really.. the guy takes the word of a single torrent site boasting about the accuracy of torrent numbers (which anyone with a brain could tell you is a horribly flawed method) and believes it's as true as the universe existing, but just glosses over how the bigger pirate groups encourage people to buy the games, and conveniently downplays the severity of the problems people have and will have with the DRM schemes he talks about. -- |
alethiophile
Member #9,349
December 2007
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On the topic of the DRM mentioned in the article: The letter that he shows a photograph of seems to imply that the DRM that came with the Elder Scrolls game checks if you are running processes that could be used to bypass the DRM, and refuses to run the game otherwise. I don't have any experience with PC game DRM, but if that is the case, then I can see the controversy. It's none of the game seller's business what programs you run while you run their game. If that is not the case, then how does it work, and why would the programs mentioned in the letter cause DRM problems? The article is in no way unbiased. Because the article is rather long and many of its contentions are very much in dispute, it is unhelpful to simply say 'your points are refuted in the article'. Please at least characterize the argument that you want to advance. -- |
Kitty Cat
Member #2,815
October 2002
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Quote: On the topic of the DRM mentioned in the article: The letter that he shows a photograph of seems to imply that the DRM that came with the Elder Scrolls game checks if you are running processes that could be used to bypass the DRM, and refuses to run the game otherwise. I don't have any experience with PC game DRM, but if that is the case, then I can see the controversy. It's none of the game seller's business what programs you run while you run their game. If that is not the case, then how does it work, and why would the programs mentioned in the letter cause DRM problems? As far as I'm aware, both Morrowind and (originally) Oblivion just did a rather basic CD check. It made sure the drive type was a CD-ROM type, and a specific file was on the CD. With newer Oblivion and Fallout 3, it uses SecuROM to do the CD check. And even though it's only doing a CD check, SecuROM installs a bunch of hidden stuff without your consent, gives no simple way to uninstall it (Sony finally made a SecuROM removal tool, but last I heard it didn't work all that well), and generally has random problems with specific CD drives, multiple CD drives, certain software (Daemon Tools, even if it's not running and has been uninstalled, and Process Explorer to name a couple), etc. And if you try to uninstall SecuROM, the games will stop working.. so even if you do successfully remove it, you may as well remove all games that use it, too. And that's not even getting into the other claims that it'll sometimes disable drives, or knocks drives down into PIO mode, which puts added stress on them and wears it out faster. -- |
alethiophile
Member #9,349
December 2007
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Kitty Cat said: (problems with SecuROM) From what I've read on Wikipedia and its website, what Securom does is it encrypts the application on your HD and checks the key on the CD to decrypt it. How does it work other than that; if that's all it does then why is it controversial; and, since I assume that's not all it does, what else does it do? -- |
Kitty Cat
Member #2,815
October 2002
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According to what I read on wikipedia, it plays around with the disc timings (which is actually how it stores the key), using it's own kernel-level driver. It also installs components which fool around with shell extensions (and would be difficult to actually track as belonging to SecuROM, if you didn't already know) and cause extra stability problems for Explorer, and it creates registry keys which are difficult to remove by purposely encoding it in a way that most registry editors cannot handle. And personally I wouldn't doubt they put in specific checks to block running while CD virtualization software is running, as opposed to it just being a side-effect of the technique they used.. that is until enough people complained and they "fixed the bug". With all the under-handedness it goes through to keep itself on your system without you knowing, it really wouldn't surprise me at this stage. -- |
SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
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Quote: I would like to think that "my game idea" will someday become a world phenomenon that everyone talks about and plays. But we all know that a game will be popular for a short while before being replaced by the next "great game" that comes out. So having different Episodes for the same game, a few years apart, ensures that "my dream lives on". If your game idea requires episodes to remain relevant, your game idea sucks. Quake I/II/III are still played and will continue to be played for years on. Baldur's Gate will also endure. This "we all know" business is an excuse not to think, or actually make a good game. As for the article, yes it is very flawed. It makes a lot of unfounded assumptions, invalidation of any one of which would collapse the house of cards taht the writer built on top of them. Frankly, I can't be responsible for the idiocy of my fellow humans, so it's not my darned fault if their piracy ruins the PC gaming market. I pirate as means of a fair demo, and then I buy the real version if I like it. Otherwise, the piece of excrement gets off my HDD for good. If it has DRM, I either don't buy it, or pirate it with something to remove the DRM. My Vista install is on 40GB, and I need to reinstall any game I want to play. I am not changing my habits due to the whims of the game publishes/developers. I see how the whole thing is illegal, but as the article writer said, laws are not always just. In this particular case, I think piracy is moral, but illegal... But since morality is oh so relative, that's an irrelevant statement. Otherwise, I agree with Kitty Cat's points. "For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow."-Ecclesiastes 1:18 |
Roy Underthump
Member #10,398
November 2008
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Wikipedia entry: SecuROM said: Claimed problems relating to SecuROM include prevention of proper launching of games, disabling of CD/DVD/Blu-ray disc burners, and disruption of antivirus programs. Some users have reported severe damage caused by SecuROM, resulting in system failures that required complete system reformats to fix. How are those not problems? [EDIT] http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/98241-13-remove-securom-malware-uninstalling-bioshock-demo http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=cmdlineext.dll&aq=0&oq=cmdlineext.dll I love America -- I love the rights we used to have |
ReyBrujo
Moderator
January 2001
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Took me 6 hours or so, but finished reading it. Commenting about the article: page 3 said: However again there's no solid evidence to substantiate the fact that a pirated copy leads to a purchase. In fact given that a pirated copy is a perfect duplicate of a retail copy, and hence there is no quality difference between the two, logically it would be rare for consumers to pirate a game, play it, and then go out and purchase essentially the same game again at additional cost. So true. That is why I buy original games, because if I like a game a lot, I would not be able to wait until I get it (often a month or two to ship it here), and would hate to replay the game losing any saved data. In case of Nintendo DS or Wii games, it would mean a completely new friend code, which makes you lose your list of friends, online records, etc. Music is different: I sometimes download MP3 songs, and if I like them, I buy the album. In fact, I have several albums here (Avantasia's The Metal Opera I and II, some from Epica, etc) that I never opened after buying because the MP3s are fine enough and don't need to rip the CDs. In this case, I equal downloading and playing a MP3 to listening it in the radio. It is similar to watching a video in YouTube, it is illegal, but allows me to try the music out before buying. {"name":"Piracy_5.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/c\/6\/c6edf7cc5ba46cea444074822e343b79.jpg","w":722,"h":423,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/c\/6\/c6edf7cc5ba46cea444074822e343b79"} Just like the article stated, prices are too high. The average income here is around USD 400, while a original PlayStation 3 is sold between USD 400 (through auction sites) and USD 1000 (though big market chains). This is the main excuse given down here when you discuss about piracy. page 4 said: An important issue worth noting is the dollar loss figures used in the above reports. I don't agree with them because as discussed in the Economics of Piracy section, it's incorrect to simply assume that every piece of pirated software is equivalent to a full-price lost sale. Dollar loss is not the term to be used, negative revenue could be better. It is the amount of money the pirated copies could have generated. page 4 said: One method which is reasonably robust - and coincidentally highlights one of the directly measurable costs of piracy - is to look at tech support requests made by people who are using a pirated copy of a game. If only for this, the used market also damages the industry. For example, Frontier sold 100 copies only in Italy, but the tech support of Frontier Developments were receiving tens of thousands of calls. No way to know if they were all due piracy or second hand market, but this is an extra cost for the developer. I would suggest reading Casual Games and Piracy: The Truth, where Russell Carroll, director of marketing at Reflexive, explained how many sales they were able to rescue when working around the different piracy attacks (breaking DRM, cracks, keygens and exploits), and was the piece that enforced 2D Boy (World of Goo creators) to write their blog and explanation about why they think their game had a 90% piracy rate. page 5 said: Valve Corp. who provided the primary digital distribution channel for Call of Duty 4 via the Steam client don't release sales data, but we do have a general indication of boxed retail vs. digital distribution sales from recent articles such as this one: "Gabe Newell revealed that [Valve] will soon be making more money from digital distribution of its games than traditional boxed sales". This statement tends to indicate that at best digital distribution matches retail sales for most games, and is certainly not many orders of magnitude above retail sales at the moment for games which release in both retail and digital channels. Here the article has an error: it does not indicate digital distribution matches retail sales, but instead that they do more money out of digital distribution than retail sales. Which is only natural, since retailing needs printed manuals, boxes, media, physical distribution, etc. So, it could be that half the sales from digital distribution matches the money they do from retailers. page 7 said: Online and Subscriber-Based Business Models They don't mention how World of Warcraft canibalizes other MMORPGs. This is because it is extremely hard to build a business against a established franchise, just like it is very hard to build a business around operative systems with Microsoft Windows around, office packages with Microsoft Office, internet searching around Google, etc. It is possible, sure, but it takes a lot of time. Google didn't become the most used search engine in a year. page 7 said: Episodic Content Business Models The problem with this model is that much time passes between episodes. They compare it to TV episodes, but you usually wait for a week only, when episodic games could take two years or more (like Half-Life). Your game may be already obsolete by the new tech standards by the time you release a new episode. You force people to replay the original game (especially if it has a dark or complex story) just to keep up with the new episode. And you are competing against newer products. For example, GTA4 was released early this year, and the first episodic content will appear in March 2009. How can someone justify paying for a game that is already a year old when newer games have appeared? page 7 said: Advertising & Micropayment Based Business Models As they point out, advertisement only helps the publisher by increasing their income. However, the final user is still paying the same amount of money as if the game had had no advertisement at all. If you don't translate the benefit to the end user, piracy will continue. This is where extra incentives for original games are needed: for example, getting a code to download extra armours or weapons for a FPS, new maps for multiplaying, even strategy guides for boxed articles, etc. This may not only prevent piracy but also second hand offerings. page 8 said: To consumers, DRM is a four letter word. Uh? page 8 said: Despite this customer backlash, the game still sold over 2 million copies in its first three weeks alone, making it one of the best selling PC games of the year. Not really, those 2 million copies include console and handheld versions. Somehow, I noticed the author became excited when talking about DRM, putting more emphasis in defending it than examining other piracy methods like cracking and key generating. He seems pretty sad that StarForce was dropped by Ubisoft, and then uses the EULA ("the user is only licensed to use a copy of the game under certain terms and conditions, and does not ever own that game") to say the different measures by DRM are fine. Uh... that should have been at the very first page of the article if he had wanted to take that path... it is like a lawyer presenting a case for 6 hours about how the accused is guilty to end with "according to the law, stealing is a crime". He keeps mentioning that other application installs at Ring 0 like DRM (using as example SpeedFan). So, he is comparing a freeware that needs to have that low access to get the information it needs to applications that sure cost hudnreds of thousands of dollars? Then he contradicts himself by assuming good faith in the SecureROM developer but not in the users that complain about it: page 9 said: This is the heart of the issue: people with no real knowledge of SecuROM are deliberately and systematically creating and then perpetuating absolutely unverifiable, often patently false claims against such protection systems, more to debase and undermine the protection system's credibility in the eyes of the public than anything else.
page 9 said: In terms of the hidden Registry entries which SecuROM creates and may not uninstall, there hasn't been any evidence that there's anything devious involved. This paragraph is questionable: page 9 said: Furthermore, if users are genuinely concerned about introducing malware into their system which can compromise security and stability, then you'd think they'd avoid downloading pirated material. Uh? So we went from analyzing piracy to "The user got malware? His fault for pirating." That should have been stated at the first page too: cracked version of games may have been modified by the crackers to contain determined functionality not found in the original version (contrary to their mention of developers purposedly removing features or adding game-breaking bugs in early discs to discourage piracy). Quote: Not surprisingly however, no campaign to boycott torrents, or Alcohol, or Daemon Tools will ever gain any momentum, despite the potentially greater threat they represent to the security of users than SecuROM or StarForce ever will. Well, it is similar to the unique ID per country citizen. No campaign will request it, but people will surely go against it if implemented, because it turns the table: "you are a potential criminal, and therefore we setup this DRM system in your PC." There are those who say "If you didn't do anything wrong, what do you fear?". But that excuse is basically against common sense in law: you are innocent until proven guilty. Then they compare Valve to DRM systems, saying that "At the very least it certainly demonstrates that DRM can become accepted, even loved, if presented in the right way." While Valve is a DRM system, the DRM systems are not content delivery systems. That many people got to love Valve does not indicate people will like DRM, ever. Valve is convenient: you get to play games the day they are released without having to leave your home. That is something DRM systems cannot do. Talking about Valve, they explain why I don't like it: page 9 said: Indeed if Valve suddenly goes bankrupt for example, it's theoretically possible that all Steam users would be permanently locked out of their games since Valve has no legal obligation to keep their servers running.
page 10 said: If a game is crappy, there's a simple solution: don't buy it and don't pirate it. Aha, here is the deal: what is crappy for you can be priceless for someone else. GameSpot vs. Eidos deal and IGN claim that GTA4 story was Oscar-worthy reduces the credibility of reviewers. The article was fine until the DRM pages, where the author defended it as the least possible evil. His conclusion was that PC sales are suffering because piracy based on the comparison between sales in consoles and in PC. However, console sales have always been much higher than PC ones. In 1995, when the NES was discontinued, Super Mario Bros 3 had surely sold well over 10 million copies (eventually reaching 18 million). Very few PC games have sold more than 10 million games, before or after SMB3. Maybe not 5:1, but I assume those who know about hardware not only have a powerful PC, but also an Xbox 360 or a PS3 game console, and since players usually buy just one version of the game, PC sales end getting hurt. Anyways, good article, although tedious. Would not read again. -- |
BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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Quote: Up till a bunch of patches and fixes came out for Vista is was a heaping pile of crap. The patches don't really change it all that much. At least, I haven't installed anything yet that seems to have changed much at all. Quote: Like an old classic movie once said: "If you build it, they will come." (Its actually "he", but you get my point) The movie Field of Dreams had the exact line you quoted. Quote:
And when the gift giver, who thought they were doing something really nice for me, finds out they're going to feel really bad. when they find out? You're quite the douchebag, aren't you? I wouldn't make someone who went out of their way to buy a gift like that for me feel bad/hassle them like that, I'd just suck it up. This whole thread is fail. |
alethiophile
Member #9,349
December 2007
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Quote: This whole thread is fail.
A little more specific? -- |
Kitty Cat
Member #2,815
October 2002
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Quote:
Article said: In fact given that a pirated copy is a perfect duplicate of a retail copy, and hence there is no quality difference between the two, logically it would be rare for consumers to pirate a game, play it, and then go out and purchase essentially the same game again at additional cost. So true.
Wouldn't it be true that it would also be rare for someone to pirate it who would have also bought (and kept) it otherwise? If you pirate it, you still have the options: Given that no one has done good enough studies for video game piracy here, why is it assumed the second option will be a sizeable portion of it? Ironicly, some research was done in Canada about music piracy, and found it had no significant impact on the end sales, and indeed, that it showed a slight increase in sales due to the added exposure. Obviously I'm not assuming that is the case with video game piracy, but wouldn't it be just as wrong to assume the opposite without proper studies being done? You also mentioned that you would download music and buy the album if you like it. Given that you can get lossless copies of a good number of music albums (if you don't consider high-bitrate MP3 to be "good enough"), why are you more willing to accept buying-after-pirating for music, but not games? PS: This isn't a snide or retohrical reponse, I'm honestly curious. -- |
bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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ReyBrujo said: The problem with this model is that much time passes between episodes. They compare it to TV episodes, but you usually wait for a week only, when episodic games could take two years or more (like Half-Life). Your game may be already obsolete by the new tech standards by the time you release a new episode. You force people to replay the original game (especially if it has a dark or complex story) just to keep up with the new episode. And you are competing against newer products. For example, GTA4 was released early this year, and the first episodic content will appear in March 2009. How can someone justify paying for a game that is already a year old when newer games have appeared? Aren't you one of the proponents for gameplay > graphics? So how can you argue that buying a game made with an "outdated" engine is unreasonable? Personally, I still find Half-Life 2 episodes to be enjoyable (though I haven't really been able to play Episode 2 yet). The games are typically long enough to be considered full games. And anyway, the episodes do get a technological overhaul because I can't even play HL2:EP2 on my existing hardware, but HL2 and HL2:EP1 run fine. I'm not sure Half-Life 2 really fits the "episode" model presented here because developing the whole story in one shot would have taken a long time and the end result would have been a very long game (first-person shooters generally don't last 50+ hours like RPGs can). There are a lot of "old" games that I love to play again and would be thrilled to get extended gameplay for. ReyBrujo said: As they point out, advertisement only helps the publisher by increasing their income. However, the final user is still paying the same amount of money as if the game had had no advertisement at all. If you don't translate the benefit to the end user, piracy will continue. Well as mentioned in the article, there is a lot of risk involved in game development. Would you risk the profits of a project on an experimental advertising strategy or use the money made to keep other projects alive. I'm sure if game companies could they would drop the price of their products. I think it's a little narrow minded to say that the advertising should have immediately meant lower prices for consumers. ReyBrujo said: Uh?
In other words, a bad (read: curse) word. BAF said: when they find out? You're quite the douchebag, aren't you? I wouldn't make someone who went out of their way to buy a gift like that for me feel bad/hassle them like that, I'd just suck it up. The thought is still there. I appreciate what they did. I'm not going to pretend that it worked out though. The truth is they were cheap and it seems were stung for it (the Chinese copy was half the cost of a domestic purchase, at least before shipping). You get what you pay for. I absolutely appreciate their effort nonetheless, but I didn't even ask for this because I knew it was more expensive than they would go and planned to buy it myself at a later date. Besides, it's good for them to realize that things can go badly when you blindly make purchases over the Internet (tonight I learned that the distributor charged the gift giver twice and didn't return any correspondence despite many tries to contact them to check on the order status, which apparently took a very long time... The package finally arrived Christmas Eve). Rather than let them buy falsified products again and again, I think it's better to let them know about it. Personally, if I buy something for somebody I want to know how they really feel about it. If you don't like it then you don't like it. That's not a problem. Dishonesty isn't good for anybody involved. The gift giver is robbed of truly pleasing you (even if they don't know it) and you just end up scrapping their efforts, making the whole thing a worthless and wasteful exchange. I told the gift givers tonight. Unfortunately, I think they feel bad for it, but they'll get over it I'm sure. It's probably more embarrassment and violation that they're feeling. And hopefully they will be more careful in the future. I still don't know what I'm going to do about it though. Kitty Cat said: Ironicly, some research was done in Canada about music piracy, and found it had no significant impact on the end sales, and indeed, that it showed a slight increase in sales due to the added exposure. [citation needed] Everybody that I know that pirate media (90% of the people I know) don't buy it anymore: movies, music, games, etc. If they can pirate it they do and if they can't they usually go without. As a matter of fact, none of them consider it wrong (much like most of you). They don't think they're doing any harm, so why would they buy? And I'm Canadian. -- acc.js | al4anim - Allegro 4 Animation library | Allegro 5 VS/NuGet Guide | Allegro.cc Mockup | Allegro.cc <code> Tag | Allegro 4 Timer Example (w/ Semaphores) | Allegro 5 "Winpkg" (MSVC readme) | Bambot | Blog | C++ STL Container Flowchart | Castopulence Software | Check Return Values | Derail? | Is This A Discussion? Flow Chart | Filesystem Hierarchy Standard | Clean Code Talks - Global State and Singletons | How To Use Header Files | GNU/Linux (Debian, Fedora, Gentoo) | rot (rot13, rot47, rotN) | Streaming |
Kitty Cat
Member #2,815
October 2002
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Quote: [citation needed] http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/ippd-dppi.nsf/eng/h_ip01456.html Summary of findings said: However, our analysis of the Canadian P2P file-sharing subpopulation suggests that there is a strong positive relationship between P2P file-sharing and CD purchasing. That is, among Canadians actually engaged in it, P2P file-sharing increases CD purchasing. We estimate that the effect of one additional P2P download per month is to increase music purchasing by 0.44 CDs per year (based on estimates obtained from the negative binomial model in Table 4.3). Furthermore, we find indirect evidence of the 'market creation' effect of P2P file-sharing in the positive coefficient on the variable 'Not available elsewhere' (Table 4.3).
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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Ummm, they're only using 2 months worth of data collected by what sounds like a contracted company....... >_< And it was the Canadian government! -- acc.js | al4anim - Allegro 4 Animation library | Allegro 5 VS/NuGet Guide | Allegro.cc Mockup | Allegro.cc <code> Tag | Allegro 4 Timer Example (w/ Semaphores) | Allegro 5 "Winpkg" (MSVC readme) | Bambot | Blog | C++ STL Container Flowchart | Castopulence Software | Check Return Values | Derail? | Is This A Discussion? Flow Chart | Filesystem Hierarchy Standard | Clean Code Talks - Global State and Singletons | How To Use Header Files | GNU/Linux (Debian, Fedora, Gentoo) | rot (rot13, rot47, rotN) | Streaming |
ReyBrujo
Moderator
January 2001
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Quote: Aren't you one of the proponents for gameplay > graphics?
Of course. But not everyone thinks like me (you?) Quote: Well as mentioned in the article, there is a lot of risk involved in game development. Would you risk the profits of a project on an experimental advertising strategy or use the money made to keep other projects alive. I'm sure if game companies could they would drop the price of their products. I think it's a little narrow minded to say that the advertising should have immediately meant lower prices for consumers. As pointed by the article, Valve increased the price of their games through the world. What used to be USD 49 in Europe now is €49, even though they don't have to pay import taxes like boxed copies that are sent to Europe. In Australia, a game bought by Steam costs more than the boxed copy. They could, but they won't because they have the monopoly of digital distribution. Also, software supported by advertisement is usually a free alternative to the paid version (Eudora, FlashGet, etc). The benefit is automatic for the user. Why wouldn't it be the same for games? If advertisement is transparent (for example, Pepsi-sponsored vending machines, PlayBoy-sponsored sex shops, etc), it is one thing. But many times it is not possible (in a Call of Duty game you cannot integrate an Intel advertisement), so it breaks the immersion. Or worse, you are bombarded with loading screens that, instead of narration, show you the latest Pepsi. Or much worse, you get advertisement in the narrative ("Men, disembark faster than a hamburger made at McDonald's", "Our coordinates are Coke-Pepsi-Intel 3, Ati-Nvidia-PlayBoy 13, send reinforcements this way"). -- |
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