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To tab or not to tab?
OnlineCop
Member #7,919
October 2006
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Evert said:

It's like C vs C++, Windows vs Linux vs Mac, Vim vs emacs vs cat and sed, Allegro vs SDL vs ASM

Fixed ;D

Karadoc ~~
Member #2,749
September 2002
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OnlineCop, in what sense is "It's like vs C++, vs vs Mac, vs vs cat and sed, vs vs ASM" 'fixed'?

Secondly, I found this kind of funny.

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Wow; I read, like, 5 of the replies so far but there was too much blah-blah-blah for me to stay interested. [followed by a large post]

If you lost interest as you said, what motivated you to post that! :p

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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Quote:

As to the "pressing tab once is better than pressing space several times" I've seen come up again, get a real editor. You know, one that can be configured to insert spaces when you press tab and can treat multiple spaces as one tab.

I must have skipped that post.. My particular argument deals with navigating through space indented code with the arrow keys, its extreamly annoying and my arthritis and/or RSI starts to flare up by all the extra repetitive key presses (1 vs. 3, 4, or 8).

And before you tell me to "get a real editor" fuck you vi and emacs suck ass. Their key shortcuts alone add to the repetitive key pressing cough*M^c-buckyball-crap-butterfly:qw*cough. If you can't make an editor simpler people, get out of the software business, k thanks. (kate works perfectly well for me)

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Christopher Bludau
Member #5,401
January 2005

ctrl + left or right will get you to the next word (in nearly any editor on win or linux, don't know for mac)
so it doesn't matter if you skip 4 spaces or 2 tabs.
Because with one press you are where you want to be.

So to be as rude as this thread has been so far, I could say that this argument is the same bullshit as the rest.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Quote:

So to be as rude as this thread has been so far, I could say that this argument is the same bullshit as the rest.

I don't want to skip ALL of the tabs all of the time ::) just one, or two maybe.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Christopher Bludau
Member #5,401
January 2005

Quote:

I don't want to skip ALL of the tabs all of the time ::) just one, or two maybe.

the sense behind that stays hidden...

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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It's funny because the argument of "get a real editor that treats spaces as tabs" could easily be changed to "get a real [email client | diff generator] that understands tabs." It really is a personal preference, but obviously if you like spaces then you are wrong.

CGamesPlay
Member #2,559
July 2002
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I just found out that Kate support vim-style modelines, so you can configure the indent setting on a per-file basis. Handy to know :)

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Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

My particular argument deals with navigating through space indented code with the arrow keys, its extreamly annoying and my arthritis and/or RSI starts to flare up by all the extra repetitive key presses (1 vs. 3, 4, or 8).

Fair enough. That said, I actually need to press fewer keys in VIM than I ever had to using another editor, but I appreciate that in getting to that point one has to pass through a stage with many more keypresses than necessary.

Quote:

It's funny because the argument of "get a real editor that treats spaces as tabs"[...]

For the record and clarity, that's not what I said.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Quote:

Fair enough. That said, I actually need to press fewer keys in VIM than I ever had to using another editor, but I appreciate that in getting to that point one has to pass through a stage with many more keypresses than necessary.

The fact that KDE sets up a "Default Editor" component (kpart), and that a VIM kpart happens to exist means I might try it out in the future (it lets the Kate editor and KDevelop actually use Vim inside as the editor widget). But last time I tried Vim it was quite unfriendly. I've been in Linux land for almost 10 years now, and it took me most of that time to find out how to just save and exit in vim :P (:wq). The first couple times I was ever in vi/vim, I tried the fancy embedded tutorial and docs, and they didnt help one bit. I had to switch to another vty to kill vim.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

But last time I tried Vim it was quite unfriendly.

It's not, actually, once you know and understand the logic behind the commands. That said, the learning curve is very very steep, especially in the beginning.

Quote:

I've been in Linux land for almost 10 years now, and it took me most of that time to find out how to just save and exit in vim :P (:wq).

We had a UNIX course that included basic vi in the first trimester in the first year when I came to university, which basically covered how to enter and leave insert mode, and how to quit. Not much, but enough to make you not have to kill vi from another terminal because you don't know how to exit from it.
Not that I used it (vim, that is) much until about half a year or so ago.

Quote:

The first couple times I was ever in vi/vim, I tried the fancy embedded tutorial and docs, and they didnt help one bit. I had to switch to another vty to kill vim.

Never tried that, actually. I probably should, since I feel I'm missing some essential background when I'm trying to read the vim documentation. Anyway, {"name":"vi-vim-cheat-sheet.gif","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/f\/8\/f856948618747708157b5ad689e0ba04.gif","w":1024,"h":724,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/f\/8\/f856948618747708157b5ad689e0ba04"}vi-vim-cheat-sheet.gif is a very useful thing to print and have handy when you're learning to use vi. http://jmcpherson.org/editing.html is a useful link as well.
That said, learn vim if you want to and/or have a reason to (I wanted an editor that had native versions for both X11 and OS X and wasn't called emacs), but why bother if you're happy with the editor you have? :)

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Do you have a VI keyboard overlay too? ;D

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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You know, I'd love one of those keyboards with LED lights on each key and have it change the enscription on the keys depending on whether I'm insert mode or normal mode.
Not worth the money though, besides, I'm willing to bet it doesn't come with VIM keybindings.

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
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No, but you can program it. Not sure if it would work under Linux, because I got used to the fact that Linux sucks in hardware support, which isn't its own fault.

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Jakub Wasilewski
Member #3,653
June 2003
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Quote:

[The VI keys image] is a very useful thing to print and have handy when you're learning to use vi

I like the exclamation mark after "not used" on the backslash. It's as if the author of the chart was shocked by the fact that there is a key without a command bound to it in vi :).

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