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MinorHack Attack!
CGamesPlay
Member #2,559
July 2002
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Quote:

If it's a pain to get a game to run, you can always just not run it.

You're right. There are only two rules that are actually enforced. The 1-source-file limit, and the rule-o-matic's selection. I just set that as a rule to enforce that it be as easy to run as possible. It should compile for everyone, and the only things that they should have to have are a C(++) compiler and Allegro. I need to re-write the main page of the site to clarify this and other rules, as it is written very porrly right now.

[append]
Okay, good thing I did that, because I uncovered a rather serious bug in the rule selector. Anyways, I think everything is written much more nicely now, and the current competition page will reiterate the rules when the time comes.

Media files are disallowed to add a restriction to the competition, which is to keep it simple. Just personal preference, I suppose. By the way, rule submitters, I am not opposed to requiring entries to use a certain media file that you provide.

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Tomasu: Every time you read this: hugging!

Ryan Patterson - <http://cgamesplay.com/>

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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It's a 1 hour competition, how much media do you need? I personally like just being able to do simple programmers art without having my entry stick out like a sore thumb.

Zaphos
Member #1,468
August 2001

Quote:

It's a 1 hour competition, how much media do you need?

A main character bitmap and an enemy bitmap would be nice.

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I personally like just being able to do simple programmers art without having my entry stick out like a sore thumb.

I kind of doubt that, with an hour to do the code and the media, anyone would have much more than simple programmer's art. All allowing media files would do is enable graphics a bit more 'flavorful' and versatile than colored circles and squares.
Also, I'm generally opposed to setting rules of a competition with the purpose of dragging down the quality of everyone's entries just because I can't get that quality myself ... ie, removing drawing just because I can't draw.

Quote:

which is to keep it simple.

How does that "keep it simple"? I don't see any particular extra trouble in running entries that include a few media files along with their single source file. And allegro makes bitmap loading and rendering totally straightforward. Making bitmaps is pretty trivial, too -- just spend a minute clicking in MS Paint, and you get comically bad media files for the cost of a bathroom break. Easier than trying to make anything interesting out of circles and squares, probably.

Kikaru
Member #7,616
August 2006
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It says you need to make sure it compiles on Linux and Windows. But I do not have access to Linux for compiling, and probably won't for another week or two. :-/

Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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Just write ANSI code + Allegro and no #pragma's etc and you should be ok i think.

CGamesPlay
Member #2,559
July 2002
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And don't include conio.h, winalleg.h, and windows.h. There are others, but I think these are the most common ones.

Well, I wanted to write a proper response to this, but I guess I won't have time:

Quote:

How does that "keep it simple"? I don't see any particular extra trouble in running entries that include a few media files along with their single source file. And allegro makes bitmap loading and rendering totally straightforward. Making bitmaps is pretty trivial, too -- just spend a minute clicking in MS Paint, and you get comically bad media files for the cost of a bathroom break. Easier than trying to make anything interesting out of circles and squares, probably.

I think the biggest reason for disallowing extra media is that it really hits home the fact that gameplay is everything. If you can use blank bitmaps each with an X on it, generated at load time, you can focus on your game's mechanics instead of art in your hour. If you so choose, you can enhance your entry later with real bitmaps loaded in place of the placeholder bitmaps. This won't count as part of your entry, but it allows you to have a nicer finished product.

This competition is about straining creativity to design a game meeting the rules in as little work as possible. The goal of this competition is not to have a finished product; it is to put forth an innovative idea that is fun to play.

--
Tomasu: Every time you read this: hugging!

Ryan Patterson - <http://cgamesplay.com/>

Victor Williams Stafusa da Silva
Member #4,212
January 2004
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CGamesPlay said:

If you added the rules about California and politics, then congratualations! Those are the most brilliant rules I have ever seen :)

Personally, I added the rules "just the mouse", "no text", "bananas", "something undestructible wants to kill the player who must destroy something". "upside-down", "l33t", "politcs" and "pig and cow".
I added "argc/argv" too, but you declined.

[The attack of the space bugs - Speedhack 2005] [Rambananas - Speedhack 2006] [Make clean - Speedhack 2009] [The source god - TINS 2010]

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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Quote:

This competition is about straining creativity to design a game meeting the rules in as little work as possible. The goal of this competition is not to have a finished product; it is to put forth an innovative idea that is fun to play.

Hmmm... I can't seem to agree with this... art is part of the creativity too, isn't it? And considering media production is generally a larger time factor than coding, polished art will be expensive anyway. Or am I missing a point here?

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Krzysztof Kluczek
Member #4,191
January 2004
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Quote:

And don't include conio.h, winalleg.h, and windows.h. There are others, but I think these are the most common ones.

I always was forced to include <winalleg.h> whenever I wanted to use STL, as its implementations I was using were including <windows.h> indirectly, which conflicted with Allegro (especially BITMAP structure). Also Allegro doesn't have high resolution timers, so they can't be easily replaced.

I'm not sure whether I'll have time to enter the compo when it starts, but I'm planning to include compatibility version of "winalleg.h" for Linux users (included below), so dropping this file to compile directory will hopefully solve all problems. :)

#include <sys/time.h>

unsigned long long timeGetTime()
{
        timeval T;
        gettimeofday(&T,0);
        return ((long long)T.tv_sec)*1000+T.tv_usec/1000;
}

CGamesPlay
Member #2,559
July 2002
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Or, in your source file:

#ifdef _WIN32
#include <winalleg.h>
#else
#include <sys/time.h>

unsigned long long timeGetTime()
{
        timeval T;
        gettimeofday(&T,0);
        return ((long long)T.tv_sec)*1000+T.tv_usec/1000;
}
#endif

(add _WIN64 at your leisure)

Quote:

Hmmm... I can't seem to agree with this... art is part of the creativity too, isn't it? And considering media production is generally a larger time factor than coding, polished art will be expensive anyway. Or am I missing a point here?

I find that disallowing media will encourage more creative use of code. After all, this is primarily a programming competition. However, as I have said before, the bonus rule for a competition could be to use a specific media file in your entry, and that would be fine.

I think the only thing that can really be said on the matter that (hopefully) we can agree on is this: A competition is such because it has rules. These rules may be arbitrary, but they are in place solely for the purpose of limiting competitors. The challenge of a competition is putting out a good effort, despite the rules set in place.

--
Tomasu: Every time you read this: hugging!

Ryan Patterson - <http://cgamesplay.com/>

Zaphos
Member #1,468
August 2001

Quote:

you can focus on your game's mechanics instead of art

You can do that whether art is allowed or not. Actually, the time limit alone pretty much requires it -- if you were to 'focus' on art, you probably just wouldn't finish.

Quote:

This competition is about straining creativity to design a game meeting the rules in as little work as possible.

Adding art gives more room for creativity, and doesn't add any more work than an entrant wants. I'm sure anyone entering this will have to be quite good at managing their time anyway: No need to pretend to manage it for them, and go banning things because you think they wouldn't have time for it.

Quote:

it is to put forth an innovative idea that is fun to play.

And adding media files opens up the range of ideas that can be coherently represented ... with no drawbacks, because everyone is still free, of course, to not use media files.

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I find that disallowing media will encourage more creative use of code

Do you? Really? Are you sure it doesn't just encourage use of circle() instead of blit() ...

Quote:

this is primarily a programming competition

I thought it was about making games, not just code.

Quote:

These rules may be arbitrary, but they are in place solely for the purpose of limiting competitors.

A good competition would choose rules that improve the competition, and would be able to justify those rules. Just adding completely arbitrary restrictions, well, it might make the competition arbitrarily worse.

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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There is no size limit... store the raw bitmap data in your source.

Zaphos
Member #1,468
August 2001

Quote:

There is no size limit... store the raw bitmap data in your source.

If that's fine, it just emphasizes how pointless the no-media rule is ...

CGamesPlay
Member #2,559
July 2002
avatar

Quote:

A good competition would choose rules that improve the competition, and would be able to justify those rules. Just adding completely arbitrary restrictions, well, it might make the competition arbitrarily worse.

I guess we can't agree then. I am going to keep this rule for the purpose of simplicity. I hope this doesn't discourage you from participating.

If you are interested in modifying the competition's rules, let me know. I will supply you with the source code for the web site and you can host your own.

--
Tomasu: Every time you read this: hugging!

Ryan Patterson - <http://cgamesplay.com/>

Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
avatar

I think the "one source file only, nothing else" is good. I think it's very suitable for such a short competition. It's also fun to work with something else than bitmaps. It gives you the opportunity to express yourself in a way that in any other game would look bad.

It also feels 1337.

I rest my case.

Ron Ofir
Member #2,357
May 2002
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I think it's time I try hacking myself, and I guess this would be a nice competetion to get me going. Though I'm not sure I can drop in for this particular one (coding in 1:00-2:00 AM when school is on is no good...)

Kikaru
Member #7,616
August 2006
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Well, if all goes well I should be in this one! This could be really nice, as it is possible to convert games made for this into finished products eventually. :D

[EDIT]
is END_OF_MAIN(); still necessary on Linux?

CursedTyrant
Member #7,080
April 2006
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I've made this one just to see what can I create in one hour. Done in 59 minutes.

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Kikaru
Member #7,616
August 2006
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Pretty neat! A little long though, might tweak the physics a little. ;)

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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It's END_OF_MAIN() and you should use it anyway for platform compatibility.

Zaphos
Member #1,468
August 2001

Quote:

I hope this doesn't discourage you from participating.

No -- it's all good. :) It'll still be a fun competition, and I'll put in an effort as long as I can be around that hour. Glad you're going through the trouble of hosting it!

(I'm way too happy to get argumentative ... really, I think the media thing is a pretty minor point. There's no time to do art anyway!)

Jakub Wasilewski
Member #3,653
June 2003
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I'm going to participate if I'll be able to. However, 23:00-0:00 before a Monday is pretty evil for the majority of Europe that lives in CET.

I've had a similar idea for a hack, and maybe I'll still execute it... But meanwhile, yours sounds interesting :).

And please, remove the rule about bananas ;). One banana infested compo is enough.

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CGamesPlay
Member #2,559
July 2002
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Okay, glad to see so much participation! Personally, I will have a lot of trouble playing. I am presently on vacation at some resort, and the rooms don't have internet. I have a phone with the internet (how I am typing this), and a laptop. I'll be playing, of course, but it might take me a while to finish my judging.

Speaking of judging, I think we should use the Borda method of voting. First place gets n points, second gets n - 1, ... last gets 0 points.

Also, as soon as I get some free time, I'll be writing a "past entries" page on the site, with everyone's progress at the end of the hour.

--
Tomasu: Every time you read this: hugging!

Ryan Patterson - <http://cgamesplay.com/>

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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Hook your phone to your laptop???

CGamesPlay
Member #2,559
July 2002
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I imagine I could write software to do that, but the provided software uses the OS's features, which make sure that "data service" and "tethered dial-up networking" are not active at the sae time. I know that's a single bit in the config, but it's a 30/mo bit. Anyways, I can transfer data over the storage card.

--
Tomasu: Every time you read this: hugging!

Ryan Patterson - <http://cgamesplay.com/>



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