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| loomsoft presents: Ninkatsu Demo |
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Inphernic
Member #1,111
March 2001
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The following is a semi-random stream of thought after playing the game for a few rounds, and may not be "good feedback", but here goes anyway: Why is Nin fighting against Tsu? Because Tsu wants to destroy the world? Why is that - because he's mad? Ok, you have more backstory, but.. Considering beat Tsu will make the game harder, why should I even try to whittle his health away since I can just stay on the ground, level 1, and work towards a big seed combo? The game is unbeatable, so does the backstory really even matter? Or does it end with "in the end, Tsu wins and cries havoc, dogs of war and so forth, and the world is done for"? Why should I bother fighting at all? For the score? The problem I have is that the game tries to create a story and then throws a certain, delayed death at you. It's seems like the story doesn't do anything for the game. It's like "ok, here's a story, now go and die". Tetris is "pointless" fun and it doesn't try to be anything else (well, at least until some bright fellows figured out that Tetris pieces are sentient beings who fight for their survival - whoever came up with that deserves to be shot multiple times in the groin area and then stabbed to the face), but with the added story and such, this game feels to me as if it's trying to make its own sentient beings for absolutely no purpose. Tetris without a story - "pointless" but fun. Tetris with a story - tries to have a point but fails to the point where it's not just fun anymore. For some reason, SaKuRa also bothered me. And a ninja called Nin got a chuckle out of me. <flonne>Nin nin nin! ♥</flonne> -- |
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Ultio
Member #1,336
April 2001
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I like your questions (and the attitude in which you ask them)! I'll try to answer as best I can! Quote: Why is Nin fighting against Tsu? It's a long story. I can send it to you if you want it. Quote: Considering beat Tsu will make the game harder, why should I even try to whittle his health away since I can just stay on the ground, level 1, and work towards a big seed combo?
The score of killing anything is multiplied by the current level you're on. Staying on level 1 is a bad idea Quote: The game is unbeatable, so does the backstory really even matter? If you want to get technical, no. Quote: Why should I bother fighting at all? For the score? In the end, yes -- only for the score. Quote: The problem I have is that the game tries to create a story and then throws a certain, delayed death at you. It's seems like the story doesn't do anything for the game. It's like "ok, here's a story, now go and die". I'm sorry that's a problem for you. I don't find it necessary that any game with a story requires it to be "beatable." Do more of you guys feel that because there is a story, you're expecting to be able to "complete" the game somehow? Or, do you find the story pointless and it makes you frown upon the game? The story doesn't do anything for the game but tie the pieces together and make some kind of sense out of what you're doing. Of course in Tetris there shouldn't be any story. You're manipulating blocks. But in this game world, you're moving a character around the screen, fighting sentient beings, and killing a big baddie. Sure, the story could have been as much as "Bang! Bad guy in the sky and seeds of doom. Ninja to the rescue! Do your thang!" I, however, like to incorporate more than that into the game world. I see it as an added bonus for those who are interested in what each component of the game is, and why its there. I believe that there are players out there who do think the story does something for the game. While not directly, I think it adds a certain feel to it. I want it to have character. SaKuRa and Nin are kind of just a fun play on a naming scheme. This was done on purpose, and I'm glad it's obvious (it's supposed to be). --- |
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Inphernic
Member #1,111
March 2001
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Quote: It's a long story. I can send it to you if you want it.
Sure. Quote: Staying on level 1 is a bad idea A bad idea maybe, but still a virtually 100% guaranteed supersafe way to get megapoints. Quote: I'm contemplating schemes to force level progression other than just score multiplication, though. Make Tsu descend with a "falling ceiling"? If he makes it to the ground (or close enough), game over. Hitting Tsu would then not only hurt him, but push him back a little. Hitting Tsu would be a must. Quote: I'm sorry that's a problem for you. Well, that was a bad choice of a word - it's not a problem in the sense that it would be a showstopper for me. But - if the story is interesting and it carries any weight to it, I'd like a conclusion. Completion of the game usually leads to a story conclusion, and something like the potential destruction of the world needs one. The extent to which you have built the story also suggests that there is more in store. Well, there's always "Tsu wins, Nin loses, the world is destroyed", and there's absolutely nothing I can do to change that. Why play the game then? Well, for the score.. but that's not very interesting. It just feels so.. hanging. Now, if the story would be something like "Harold the Homeboy and his friends have decided to climb a huge tower they found the other day. The end.".. well, I wouldn't expect more story. Quote: I want it to have character.
I can understand that, and that's a good goal (and arguably integral to stand out from the crowd).. but at the moment, I'm personally just not feeling it. This is just all one big IMO though. -- |
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Ultio
Member #1,336
April 2001
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Quote: Make Tsu descend with a "falling ceiling"? If he makes it to the ground (or close enough), game over. Hitting Tsu would then not only hurt him, but push him back a little. Hitting Tsu would be a must. This would drastically shorten the amount of time you have to register, and destroy falling seeds. I don't want to make the gap between the "ceiling" and ground any shorter than it already is. There may be some other way to do it, though, keeping the seeds falling from the highest of heights. Quote: But - if the story is interesting and it carries any weight to it, I'd like a conclusion. Completion of the game usually leads to a story conclusion, and something like the potential destruction of the world needs one. ...
In that case, and if many people are interested in an actual closure to the story, I don't see why one couldn't be added. It would be for those uber elite who can hit the max score (as of right now: 999,999,999) -- or, I could save it for those who unlock 100% of the game dictionary. But, given those hard goals to complete, wouldn't it still be a "showstopper" for you? You tell me! Quote: This is just all one big IMO though. Big IMO or not, most of the time any feedback that's more than just a one-liner (and thought out at least a little bit) is worth something. Thanks for YO. As for the complete story, tell me where you want it, and I'll send it along. --- |
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Inphernic
Member #1,111
March 2001
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Quote: This would drastically shorten the amount of time you have to register, and destroy falling seeds. I don't want to make the gap between the "ceiling" and ground any shorter than it already is. There may be some other way to do it, though, keeping the seeds falling from the highest of heights.
How about a stretchy neck that would also sway from side to side in the lines of: Quote: In that case, and if many people are interested in an actual closure to the story, I don't see why one couldn't be added. It would be for those uber elite who can hit the max score (as of right now: 999,999,999) -- or, I could save it for those who unlock 100% of the game dictionary. But, given those hard goals to complete, wouldn't it still be a "showstopper" for you? You tell me!
Well, something realistically reachable would be nice. Quote: Big IMO or not, most of the time any feedback that's more than just a one-liner (and thought out at least a little bit) is worth something. Thanks for YO. I hope MO is of some help though! Quote: As for the complete story, tell me where you want it, and I'll send it along.
Drop a link to PM (if you have it uploaded somewhere) or e-male nepenthe at spamspam dot net. Oh, and replace spamspam with duckiehorde. -- |
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Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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short version: Gameplay is good, sound is bad, graphics are mixed good and bad, music is cool for the first 3 seconds, then no. long version: Gameplay is solid and provides much oppertunity for new ideas and levels, combos, multi-player, etc in the future. Joystick support is a MUST, I predict that would take no more than 2 hours of programming, max. The physics for jumping seem akward and 'sticky'. It feels like the gravity increases suddenly when you release jump button, almost like a down-thrust (which might be a cool move to add). the sword slash sound is good, but the explosion sounds and other homemade ones are pretty aweful. I do sound design professionally for film and I'd like to help with that if you're are interested. as far as the music, I won't go there. the graphics quality is mixed, the hand drawn background stuff is good and I would like to see this same style for the characters, crystals, and hud in general. The tutorial is good, I liked that, and the music on the tutorial is good too. -- |
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Ultio
Member #1,336
April 2001
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A big long neck would be interesting, yet very scary at the same time! Ahh! I guess you're expecting some kind of laser-eyes to be implemented, huh? Quote: Joystick support is a MUST, I predict that would take no more than 2 hours of programming, max. Already in progress, basically done (even before putting out the demo). Waiting for b0rkenness in OSX to be fixed before I officially put it in for everyone to enjoy. I've done a bit of research into it but I haven't found a solution to the issues that I've discovered. Others have started to take a gander. Quote: The physics for jumping seem akward and 'sticky'. It feels like the gravity increases suddenly when you release jump button, almost like a down-thrust (which might be a cool move to add). Oh yes. This is going to be revamped. The "insta-max-speed-fall" has been brought up and it's going to be addressed so that it will, hopefully, do the same float effect as doing a full jump. I will also be making the jumping a bit more smooth with more "hang time." Hopefully that will make things feel more natural. If not, more tweaks will be made. If double jumping isn't perfect in terms of control, then everything else is just "poop on a stick" for lack of better terminology. Quote: the sword slash sound is good, but the explosion sounds and other homemade ones are pretty aweful. But of course! They are to-be-replaced. I would love to have some help on the sound samples. The amount required right now is pretty basic and minimal. I haven't thought out exactly how I want the enemies to sound just yet, but they will have sound in the future. Quote: the graphics quality is mixed, the hand drawn background stuff is good and I would like to see this same style for the characters, crystals, and hud in general.
It would be nice, but I'm not sure exactly sure that I'd be able to produce something like that myself in terms of sprite-work. As I said -- artist, anyone? Thanks for trying it out and taking the time to write your thoughts. --- |
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Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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here's a few seed-breaking sounds I just made: -- |
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ImLeftFooted
Member #3,935
October 2003
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For a linux build make sure to pass '-static' to gcc so you dont get undefined libc refs, but beware license issues (lgpl i think). I'll make sure to try it when you get a linux release. |
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Ultio
Member #1,336
April 2001
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Mark, those sounds are nice. I especially like the wood breaking one and "another_breaking_crystal". The after effect in abc is cool, although I wish the actual shattering sounded a bit more glassy! Beggars can't be choosers though, I suppose. Are you interested in doing more sounds? Let me know. You don't have to necessarily have to clutter up this thread with technicalities. Feel free to PM, etc. Quote: For a linux build make sure to pass '-static' to gcc so you dont get undefined libc refs
Oh yes, I know about the good old static. --- |
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Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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Quote: Are you interested in doing more sounds? you bet! PM's in the mail! -- |
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Using the ease of level one as a means to grab a big seed combo, and then progressing to later levels to get an uber multiplier on it IS a good idea though. I'm contemplating schemes to force level progression other than just score multiplication, though.
