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Alllegro 4.2.0 beta 2 has been released!
Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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I "Could" run a little forum email gateway on my host, but would probably need someone to handle writing the forum code. I've got too many projects on the go as it is ;)

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

Personally, the only problem I see with the mailing list is SF..

Seconded.

Quote:

I was just being sarcastic about X-G's claim that the mailing list would be the main reason to not submit code

Personally, I would have to agree that I find the argument a bit silly. I never felt the urge to any mailing list (I still don't), but I did subscribe to this one because I had something to contribute. I just forgot to unsubscribe again afterwards :P
If you have something of value and care enough to add it, I don't really see why joining the mailinglist would be an issue. Actually, you don't even have to join: if you're not subscribed the message goes to a moderator (Grzegorz? Peter?) who decides on wether or not to forward the message.

Quote:

hm, but with an email reply I couldn't have edit my grammar mistake.. OTOH, i would have saved time..

Yeah, you lose some forum features through the mail, such as the ability to edit posts or see edited posts (though there must be a clever way to keep aware of that; maybe a notification if the last post was edited). Going the other way, you would lose some of the things you can do with mail if you switch to a forum.
What I'd love to see most though, apart from the ability to reply, is a direct link in the message to the post in question, and possibly the attachment as well.

Anyway, I think the discussion on `switching' is irrelevant in the sense that both forum and mailinglist can coexist quite easily. If at some point the forum gets used more than the mailinglist, then fine.

Something different on the issue, and something I think most people would be unaware of: at least the primary developers are all subscribed to the cvs-commits mailinglist. This is almost nescessary to be able to track changes in the repository as other people make changes to the code. For overall consistency alone it is convenient to have a mailinglist for discussion as well. It's also practical because you can very quickly pick out an email from the commit list and send a message to the development list in case you have a comment about the patch.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Not to mention mailing lists. I offered a while ago, but it fell on deaf ears. again, I can host a mailing list or 200 as well.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

ReyBrujo
Moderator
January 2001
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Blah, need to check a mailing list (two if you are also in AL), the A.cc forums and a new forum? Too much. Too much.

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RB
光子「あたしただ…奪う側に回ろうと思っただけよ」
Mitsuko's last words, Battle Royale

Kitty Cat
Member #2,815
October 2002
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Quote:

Blah, need to check a mailing list (two if you are also in AL), the A.cc forums and a new forum? Too much. Too much.

The new forum would crosspost with the mailing list, so AD and the new forum would be the same.

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"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will pee on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

ReyBrujo
Moderator
January 2001
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Everyone in AD will have to switch to this new forum, because it is possible that some mails never reach the mailing list. But as some hate mailing lists, others find it useful, and would reject switching to a forum.

If you ever do that, add RSS feed with the full text of what has been written and a quick link to reply. I still think it is not needed, but well...

--
RB
光子「あたしただ…奪う側に回ろうと思っただけよ」
Mitsuko's last words, Battle Royale

Kitty Cat
Member #2,815
October 2002
avatar

Quote:

If you ever do that, add RSS feed with the full text of what has been written and a quick link to reply. I still think it is not needed, but well...

AFAIK, every post to the forum would generate an email to AD, and every email sent to AD would generate a post on the forum.

--
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will pee on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
avatar

Quote:

Not to mention mailing lists. I offered a while ago, but it fell on deaf ears.

I saw the post, sorry if I didn't respond. :)
Personally, much as I hate the slowness of the SF mailinglist, I like some continuity so I wouldn't really want to move away from it too rashly. Since Allegro itself is also hosted on SourceForge, having the mailinglist there is also convenient. For a case like this, I personally also prefer a third party which is at least partly dedicated to providing the service, meaning no disrespect to you.
But if everyone else wants to switch...

On the subject of forums versus mailing lists, I think I'm going to remove the development forum from my recent threads view when Matthew changes the script so I can post through email. I find it so much more convenient to be able to read it through my mail!

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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Just a sidenote, has anyone noticed that the title of this thread sais Alllegro 4.2.0 beta 2 has been released!?

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Elias
Member #358
May 2000

Quote:

Just a sidenote, has anyone noticed that the title of this thread sais Alllegro 4.2.0 beta 2 has been released!?

I guess, that shows how long Evert had to stay up that night to get the beta out :)

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"Either help out or stop whining" - Evert

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

I just had an idea, a way to keep a forum from having messages that the list doesn't. You turn on message echoing (recieving the message you sent) for the forum's recive address, and once your message comes back, then post it to the forum. Also maybe have it setup to queue messages so you can see thier status, and possibly have them be resent if they haven't shown up after a day or more.

I might put something up just as proof of concept.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Peter Wang
Member #23
April 2000

Even if you could post on these forums as easily as in email, I would hesitate to do any serious development here. Having all the important discussions searchable from one place is a huge boon. That's another reason not to shift the mailing list away from SF too lightly.

What about http://gmane.org/? I've never used it, but it looks like it might satisfy some mailing list refuseniks.

Elias
Member #358
May 2000

Well, that would be another problem to consider when replacing the ML with a forum.. but just switching to another ML wouldn't mean it would have no search facility for the old archives (just need to import them, even SF managed to do that.. so it must be really simple).

Just looked at gmane.org.. it mentions newsgroups.. and I understand that newsgroups are more like forums (you can edit posts and so on).. but how would it specifically help? I doubt someone who has no proper email client has a news reader..

--
"Either help out or stop whining" - Evert

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Peter, Evert, you don't have or need to use the forums that are being talked about. Noone is really talking about completely replacing the mailing lists (if they are, they need some tough love). What I heard was a forum<-> mailing list gateway, somewhat like how gmane works for mailing lists and news groups.

And just so you know, my host provides a standard mailman list with a pipermail archive. Hell, theres even an option to setup a mail<->news gateway. Full controll of the list, vs. Sourceforge... Who knows, maybe we can import the list straight from SF. if of course they'll let you grab an archive of the list...

edit, just for fun, heres what the interface looks like. I havent actually totally setup that list, so who knows what'll happen if you join.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Elias
Member #358
May 2000

Quote:

Who knows, maybe we can import the list straight from SF. if of course they'll let you grab an archive of the list...

Er, it's SF. That should be enough to know if they let you do it or not :P

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"Either help out or stop whining" - Evert

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

I don't have much experience with SF... I registered one project years ago decided it wasnt worth the pain and never looked back.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

tobing
Member #5,213
November 2004
avatar

I think, instead of bothering about forums or ML or such, take the time to do some serious development for allegro. That time would be much better spent, and really add value. If you have anything to contribute, it just doesn't matter if it is distributed via ML or open/closed forums or anything else.

Peter Wang
Member #23
April 2000

Yeah, but it's easier to opine than write code.

EDIT: Elias, gmane's web interface looks pretty nice. e.g. http://news.gmane.org/gmane.games.devel.linux. I haven't really looked into posting, but apparently you can do that on the web too, and they use a challenge-response thing to prevent spam.

As for getting ML archives from SF.net, I'm pretty sure it can be done. It's still a pain though.

Kitty Cat
Member #2,815
October 2002
avatar

Quote:

I think, instead of bothering about forums or ML or such, take the time to do some serious development for allegro.

It seems that if development isn't mailing-list-only, we will have more people to help write code..

--
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will pee on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

ReyBrujo
Moderator
January 2001
avatar

Hmm... conditioning help because of medium... then we would get replies about "I would help if XXX wasn't in the project", "I would help if we switch to Berlios", "I would help if you follow my ideas instead of the others"...

--
RB
光子「あたしただ…奪う側に回ろうと思っただけよ」
Mitsuko's last words, Battle Royale

Kitty Cat
Member #2,815
October 2002
avatar

Quote:

Hmm... conditioning help because of medium... then we would get replies about "I would help if XXX wasn't in the project", "I would help if we switch to Berlios", "I would help if you follow my ideas instead of the others"...

More like "We would help if we weren't restricted to just the mailing list." No one's asking to get rid of the mailing list, just that there be another way to get involved with the development.

--
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will pee on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
avatar

Who has said that improvements to allegro can't be discussed here?

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Kitty Cat
Member #2,815
October 2002
avatar

Simple improvements and active development are two completely different things. :P

--
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will pee on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
avatar

People have been able to post patches here for quite a while, and there have been some discussions as well. I don't see why this needs to be pointed out. I still prefer the mailinglist for technical discussions over the forum and probably always will.

Turning the argument about mailinglist vs forum around (I realise that that is not what we're discussing at the moment), if the people doing the most actual work on Allegro prefer a mailinglist over a forum, doesn't their voice carry more weight than that of people saying that they would do more if...?

Kitty Cat
Member #2,815
October 2002
avatar

Quote:

People have been able to post patches here for quite a while, and there have been some discussions as well.

It's still not the same thing. People who don't use the forums would miss out on anything going on here/there, and anyone who doesn't use the mailing list would miss out on things there. Since no one seems to want to give up the mailing list, but we can setup a forum gateway.. I don't really see the problem. Best of both worlds, everyone gets what they want.

Quote:

Turning the argument about mailinglist vs forum around (I realise that that is not what we're discussing at the moment), if the people doing the most actual work on Allegro prefer a mailinglist over a forum, doesn't their voice carry more weight than that of people saying that they would do more if...?

Yes, as long as they realize what exactly the consequences would be. But as you said, that's not what we're discussing here..

--
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will pee on your computer." -- Bruce Graham



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