We are supposed to believe the girl pictured in this article wrote it. That could be. What do you think? Should more women pursue careers in IT?

Not as if that woman is attractive, so why not?

Women generally aren't cut out to be techies. I imagine the few who are probably go very far because they're probably more committed, and companies trying to be "diverse" gobble them up.

Maybe I'm sexist, but so is anyone telling women to go into IT just because there's "not enough women in it."

-edited-

Really, if they meet the requirments for the job, gender shouldn't matter.

I was going to be more diplomatic and say she looks nerdy. She's actually kinda cute.

I'm gender-agnostic as well. If "more women" are cut out for the job, then yes, "more women" should pursue a career in IT, but not because they're female.

At my work, we have a female Systems Architect, we had another female SA before her, and the boss of the Architecture team is a woman too. So I'd believe the article.

I'm all for more women in IT, but I suspect it's perceived as more [geeky] male dominated, and that may put a number of them off.

Having said that, until recently I was surrounded (literally) by 5 female programmers .

Fixed. That many females == estrogen overload.

Sure would be nice going into this field without having to expect a sausage fest, I agree with the Article on all of the points mentioned, as soon as I Graduate High School n' College i plan on being a Game Programmer so this subject applies to me quite a bit.8-)

Nice, I can use the same image in two responses, this time as material in a campaign to get more girls interested in Allegro:

"Allegro makes you sexy (It's got what the geeks crave (bikini not included).)."
http://www.allegro.cc/files/attachment/595339

XNA defeats Allegro in every way that counts.

It miss the cross platform thing. And for me it's really important.

Gotta have pure-blooded programmerlings.

Um.. I might be missing the point in her letter but wasn't she upset about the article because it said that many girls where interested in IT because it's trendy?..

The first thing she does is to talk about the social benefits of being a developer .

If computer programming becomes a social trend, then wont it become not cool?

Damn, we have to stop this development.

The what of being a huh? O_o Is she high?

It's a reverse harem.

She just realized that her crush on geeks is abnormal and, feeling self conscious about it, she is now trying to recruit more to be like her so she no longer feels so bad about herself.

Every girls dream: a harem of cuddle biatches.

I would hit that, career in IT or not

I had my doubts, but after reading the article I believe the author to be a female "software engineer" (or possibly the author won me over with the whole "nerds" are cool speech). I'm undecided about whether I believe the image to be the author though.

IMO, many of us seem to have a good sense of humor, but most girls don't get it and around girls a lot of us get nervous; so claiming us to be the funny guy that sat behind them in class is bullshit, IMO... And I don't like the implication that it's unattractive for women to wear baggy pants.

Well, let's face it, it's not as attractive as tight pants or a skirt now, is it? (provided the legs themselves are attractive that is)

Women should do whatever they want.

I do not approve of federal funding or quotas to push anyone into a direction they would not naturally lean towards.

If we all do what we enjoy or are best at, we will all be better for it.

I think what needs to be considered is the ratio of "women with attractive legs" versus the rest. Also, it depends on your definition and the context of attractive. If you're looking for a sex object, then you're probably looking for revealing and tight clothing. If a woman is looking to be a sex object, then I guess we know how she should be dressing. However, I think it's fair to assume that most don't want to be sex objects (and if they do they should STFU and stop confusing us) so it would not be in their best interest to dress like one. And if women want to be treated as equals in society then the sex object look isn't going to work for them. Further, I don't consider the sex object look to be the most attractive look (especially on unattractive women ). It can be hot for beautiful women, but I prefer beautiful women to dress somewhat conservatively. I don't really like to share though.

Just because a woman is trying to make herself look attractive doesn't mean she's inviting every guy to come screw her. You really need to get over your woman issues.

Well, I think it's perfectly possible to dress attractively and not be a "sex object." I think sometimes women (and especially younger ones) are deluded into thinking the only way to look attractive is to show as much flesh as possible... but that's really not the case, at least, I hope not. In a lot of cases, I think that it ends up counterproductive. Of course, if certain men start salivating at the sight of every attractive, well-dressed woman... well, that's their own problem.

Women like to sit in a corner and make (i.e., hope) men notice them, as opposed to being sensible and going up to a man and asking him out. So it's a problem they create themselves.

It's a fact of life that the bee's pick the flowers, the flowers don't pick the bees. I don't like it either but that's the way it is.

Tough luck for the flower then, if it wants to get pollinated (Don't bother asking how that makes sense, I'm tired.)

I think that's the first completely stupid thing I've seen you say. Sarcasm?

Where I work there are around 33% of women, that's around 200, and there are definitely very capable professionals among them.

EDIT: And most of them are in their 20s.

Are you a chef?

IT Company.

I think it was a joke.

Didn't get the joke unfortunately, never mind...

I'm going with the fake person theory. Why doesn't she show up on google? The second search result is a thread on an Atari forum that talks about a type of chip called the SARA chip.

That being said, I'd date her.

I'm surprised nonnus hasn't already said he'd hit it.

It's assumed.

In fact, we can all date her! I'd date her birth around 1982~86; what would others guess?
^(Sorry!)

She does for me when I spell her name with two P's. The article doesn't seem to know which to go for:

Two P's seem to yield a FaceBook profile for more drooling if you should feel so inclined. Not to say she still couldn't be a fake, and not even a very elaborate one.

Well, wondergirl has a blog and has posted another innane article:

http://girldeveloper.com/tips-tricks/five-good-reasons-to-stay-away-from-third-party-applications-even-open-source-ones/

Don't use 3rd party apps!!! Genius!!!

And yes, I'm stalking her now.

Why does she have two last names?

Maybe one is her middle name or nickname.

I have to say that her 73ch $ki11$ pale in comparison to Daphne Koller , winner of the ACM-Infosys Foundation Award in Computing Sciences for her AI work.

However , her confidence is somewhat appealing and she has a decent sense of humor but I have yet to see any of her actual code so it's hard to decide whether she's just putting on a big show or not.

Pathetic.

I wonder if she'll ever find this thread.

what

Maybe she thinks "3rd party" means a threesome.

i was working on this in college i tried to help as many females as possible. but what he said about them quiting more then male is true i manages to stop a few from quiting but some did quit on me and took up things like art.

I find that programing requires you to change your thinking pattern from from one a normal human would have. i also fine that females or good at remembering process but programing is not just that. you have to see the input and output in your head then make then connect.

I guess thats why people are trying to make a hole bunch of frame works where you put programs together like Lego. This make it easy for people that cant think like a programmer.

/personal-observation
Yesterday some colleagues and I went to lunch together (as we usually do). There were four of us this day, 2 men and 2 women. The other guy started talking about a weird dream he had the night before, which was partially the result of playing a particular video game a lot recently. He also referred to a previous dream where a roommate had (IRL) turned the shower on and in his dream he was trying to figure out what code changes he had to make to a module to turn the shower off (he had been coding a lot before going to bed).

Anyway, I made the comment that dreams had after playing a video game a lot and/or programming a lot are [among] the best kind. The two women both said that they've never had either kind of dream...

And that's supposed to mean something? I've never had any programming/gaming related dreams either.

I never had any programming/gaming related dream either. Though I did have some pretty fucked up dreams in my life.

I've dreamt about programming. I win!

I've asked a guy out before and it was awesome.

I've had a bunch of coding dreams. What're weirder are the half-awake coding dreams. One time I couldn't write the wake up module fast enough to get out of bed in time.

I have also been asked out by women and it is awesome.

So that's why all those women appeared out of nowhere that year!

Hint: check out my first name.

My dreams are funner than programming. I once dreamed that I was throwing eggs at Linus Torvalds...

Baf: lawl.

My dreams vary widly. Depending on my "state of mind" and how much I've slept that night. If I oversleep alot, the dreams I have later in the cycle are VERY odd.

Hi Nerds,

I DID find this thread. I AM real. My name is Sara Chipps and I'm a C#/ASP.NET Software Engineer. I'm, sadly, not much of a gamer. Is it possible that I don't have a long enough attention span? I do love playing arcade games, though, I can't say I'm thqat great. I don't know much about game development either. I'd love to learn though.

Ok, my responses below.

To those who said I was cute: Thanks! That's always nice to hear. I'm also single, so if there are any cute NJ nerds holla back.

To those who said I wasn't: Bummer, but I'm still a fun girl, so hopefully you wont hate me too much.

To those who said I'm fake: I'm not! Go ahead, quiz me!

To those who didn't like my articles: I'm sorry they didn't appeal to you, but they are my opinions. The open letter to girls in IT was to attract the girls who maybe would be a programmer but are intimidated by stereotypes. The thiird party apps one was EXTREMELY contraversial, if you read the comments below and my responses maybe you can better understand. I don't say NEVER use them, just think about it first.

Anyway, about to go food shopping because Andromeda Strain comes on at 9. To those who haven't looked yet you can check me out at GirlDeveloper.com. Also, I'd love to learn more about this community, can someone enlighten me?

Happy gaming!

Sara Chipps

CheatCC, is that you?

We're just a bunch of neckbeards who like to make dumb crappy games. Except for me. I'm a regular Johnny Depp who likes to make dumb crappy games.

So why do you care when Internet nerds call you cute or not? Are you self conscious? Not being cute doesn't mean you'll be hated. And what if a non-cute NJ nerd wants to holla back?

I'd recommend BAF since he's sort of nearby, but he's underage and already has two girlfriends.

You must have a LOT of time on your hands to find this thread. Either that, or you've been vainly googling you own name

To answer your question, this community is made up of a range of geeks (ages, nationalities, beliefs, professions etc), many who use Allegro as a hobby to code the said crappy games, and use the forums to discuss almost anything.

We're all good looking, have GSOH, like walks along the beach, don't smoke and are available.

Hey, I'm not underage anymore!

OMFG!!!!!!11

It's Sara Chipps!!!!!

1) To be honost, I found you're 3rd party apps article a bit naive. It's interesting to observe you systematically discovering the things most of us have learned a long the way: using third party libraries is hard because of the learning curve etc...

2) The original Andromeda Strain was a good movie, I don't have high expectations for the remake.

3) Whatever you do PLEASE DON'T BLOG ABOUT THIS SITE!!!! This is a nice community, and popularity is death to sites like this.

Edit: 4) I'm supposed to be stalking you online (see above), it kinda takes the fun out of it when you post in my favorite forum....

Note to self: automatically swap "your" and "you're" around whenever nonnus29 posts.

nonnus29 will be happy to fly out to NJ! You won't meet him though, so keep an eye out if you want to see what he looks like.

DAAYYM bwoiis!

That. Is. Awesome! Welcome to Allegro.cc!†

I live in Canada, but it's not that far away from New Jersey... I think we could make it work.†

An unfortunate side effect of blogging on the Internet is that nobody can be comfortably certain that you are who you say you are. For example, maybe you're really a male software engineer and will answer technical questions correctly, but would fail any only-a-girl-would-know-this type of questions. Or maybe the above is true and you have a female willing to answer for you, enabling you to correctly answer both technical and girly questions. You could also be a hot girl with a nerd wrapped around your finger that answers any technical questions for you, again enabling you to correctly answer both technical and girly questions. I could probably keep going... There goes a saying you've probably encountered: on the Internet, men are men, women are men, and children are FBI agents. Exceptions are few and far between.

I don't have any reason to doubt that you are who you say you are and believe you to be Sara Chipps, but then I also wouldn't be surprised to find out at some later date that either your blog or the Allegro.cc user account was a hoax. I don't think there's anything short of meeting you and getting to know you that could truly convince me that you are who you say you are.*

An even more unfortunate side effect for a hot female software engineer blogging on the Internet is all of the scary nerds that think they are in love with you.

It's not even really worth trying to apologize for blogging. Nobody has all the answers and eventually everybody gets it wrong or puts their foot in their mouth. The best you can do is hope to be corrected when you are wrong and learn from it. I think we've all been frustrated with third party software at one time or another. Then again, I think we've all been frustrated with in-house software too.

QFT.

QFT.

_{† Assuming you are who you say you are. * And even if that happened you could be pretending to be somebody you're not as part of a genius plan to pull off a heist or something! :o}

Every girls likes to hear that they are pretty, Most nerds don';t know if that they are cute, so, most def, everyone can holla back.

OR I could have Google Analytics on my site. Sounds like this site is a Jackpot!

Well, that IS the point of my site. To learn. I'm pretty green so I most likely will be experiencing things most programmers do this early in their career. I'm having fun, though!

Well, you could always ask me to take apicture of myself with a sign, or a random household object to provew it's me (Canada isn't that far, I love Degrassi)

Nice to meet all of you!

I lost interest when I saw an F-16 cruising alongside a helicopter at the same speed...

I was trying to resist...

Okay Sara Chipps, lets pretend for a moment that you're not really Diana or Manjula (or the CheatCC guys) playing jokes on us. In that case, I would like to hear your views concerning educational software to teach programming to kids:

http://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/596473

My girlfriend loves that show too.

Anyway, welcome to a.cc, though I'm kinda doubting you'll stick around.

EDIT: And if this is a prank, I'll go cry, because pranks are mean.

Stay away from

- bamccaig because he is sexist and confused (he stalked his previous love interest)
- nonnus because he is full of himself (check out his sig) and perverted.

Just because I have your picture as the wallpaper on my desktop (tiled), that makes me a pervert?

With that type of attitude, you may be replaced.... So, Sara, nice picture!

And I'm not THAT full of myself, there have been a whole lot of people posting about how right I am and I only put the first 8 or so in my sig....

Is there any internet related thing that xkcd does not have a comic for?

Probably a comic about that on xkcd.

It doesn't take that long to see where hits to your site have been referred from.

I'll always believe anyone who takes a photo of themselves with pencils stuck up there nose and a sign saying "I am the walrus."

That always reminds me of Donnie in The Big Lebowski.

I vote to replace "I am the walrus." with "I am le walrus!".

You sound like fun. Its too bad Edmonton is so far away

Perhaps "Yellow matter custard, dripping from a dead dog's eye" instead?

Hilarity of picture > References

How cool! This kind of stuff never happens.

Hm, I think a picture of you in front of your computer editing your blog post would be proof enough for me. More pressing is why you have two last names.

I wouldn't worry about getting heat for these opinions. You're hitting the fringes of open source dogma which can easily inspire illogical and emotional attacks.

I think your essay has smart ideas in it which are helpful to newer programmers, which is what this variety of blogging is all about. Being everything to everyone is a waste of time -- leave that to the presidential candidates.

Is that all we are to you?

Hey! Don't diss yourself and by proxy all of us!

We have a fine¹ collection² of games³ to our name⁴. Not to mention our awesome 48 hour game competitions, 24 hour hot-line for aspiring new game programmers, and general awesomeness. We also have, ofcourse, damn near the best forum software system out there that even has custom extensions.

Despite what I just said, please don't blog about us. The quality of our members is 90% of what makes the forum so great.

1. http://www.allegro.cc/depot/ZepsDreamland

2. http://www.allegro.cc/depot/PrioritySurvive

3. http://www.allegro.cc/depot/MouseMash

4. http://www.allegro.cc/depot/MythicBlades

Welcome to Allegro.cc Sara!

It's always nice to see more girls interested in learning programming and Information Technology and it's good to see that you encourage it for other girls as well.

Your MySpace picture is pretty cute!
According to one of your Development Diary blog posts your Birthday wasn't too long ago. Happy Belated Birthday! Looks like you and your friends went out and broke some hearts out there...
What's with the snake necklace though?

A.cc's a pretty cool place , lots of people who are willing to help when you get stuck on a problem , interesting people to chat with , and a pretty low spam to content ratio. It'd be nice to have you around judging from your blog posts. Think about it.

I don't think you're fake , I just haven't been able to see much of your work. Any comments on this C# thread? Have any home-brew projects you'd like to share?

How about one in front of your monitor with Allegro.CC in the background? Or you could tell us about your next blog article before you post it.

Anyway , nice to meet you.

You must really be LennyLen. Who else misspells controversial?

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Haha, do me next.

By sexist and confused she must mean that I'm analytical and think logically. I'm always looking for women to come along and prove my generalizations wrong though.

I never said that. And what do you mean previous!?

Don't listen to wearetheborg... She's not even a nerd! She's an impostor!

Er, generalizations are neither logical nor analytical. Also, you even admitted in this thread that women confuse you.

I dare you to Google logical generalization and analytical generalization.

Is that so? Where exactly?

Doesn't that prove that you're confused by women, bamccaig? Yes, I am the master of ripping context out of quotes.

I meant generalizations in general.

But really, most of your comments about women on this site have seemed more like emotional outburts then anything, which tend to have little to do with logic.

What you said was: "and if they do they should STFU and stop confusing us." And since I, and many people I know are not confused by women (and men) who want to look attractive without being objectified, I can only attribute the confusion to some form of social retardation, which is odd, considering I'm the one with Asperger's.

edit: added the word "more"

Doesn't that prove that you're confused by women, bamccaig? Yes, I am the master of ripping context out of quotes.
</quote>

Maybe it's different where you come from, but around here I hear a lot of women aren't objects and blah blah blah. Don't get me wrong; I agree completely. However, my above statement says that if women do want to be just sex objects then they're contradicting themselves (that would be a first ) when complaining about being treated as such and therefore confusing us. IF. Alternatively, if they don't want to be sex objects then they are contradicting themselves by dressing like them...

Nor am I. However, again the definition of attractive is brought into question. IMO, there is a fine line between attractive and objectified.

What's wrong with a woman wanting to look attractive sometimes? Dressing attractively doesn't imply they want to be treated as sex objects. There's nothing confusing about it. When you dress nicely does it mean that you want all women to ogle you and make cheap lewd overtures?

I would just like to put in my two cents as a woman and say that I will wear whatever I want to wear, if someone feels that makes me a sex object and want to treat me a such that is fine, but it comes with the following consequesnces:

1. I wouldn't date them (a bigger consequence than even you know)
2. I wouldn't associate with them
3. Something tells me that if a man thinks women should be treated as objects based on what they wear that socially they may have difficulty. I would most likely capitalize on that when they were around me and make it quite an unpleasent experience.

I can assume that you really would not like to be treated by what you wear as well.

As a woman I am very proud of my sexuality, in as much as I wear what I want. If, for some reason, that makes you uncomfortable and react in a certain manner that's really nothing I can control... so knock yourself out, but your comments aren't going to change who I am.

That being said, I'm sure you really don't mean it. That you're just coming up with something to argue about (I do that often). I'm sure you are really a nice guy with a mom (or sisters) that you would never want to see mistreated. I appreciate your concern about our wellbeing as well.

There's a reason hookers dress the way they do. It's not because they want to look nice. It's because they're advertising. The difference being that they're selling what they advertise.

Does that mean that women who dress attractively are hookers then? Of course not.
Does it mean that all women who look attractive are looking for sex? Of course not.
If a woman likes you , she'll probably let you know one way or the other , and it's not by the length of their skirt.

Could you be more clear. So, what, do women that dress like hookers want to be treated as sex objects? Or do the women that dress attractively want to be treated as sex objects?

Theres a difference between dressing attractive and dressing like a hooker. Either way, sure, maybe they want to be treated as sex objects. But, its your responsibility not to treat them as such, no matter how much your willy is telling you to.

There's a magnetic attraction between his foot and his mouth apparently... It's funny to watch though!

Well, answer me this, as men do you want me to treat you as banks based on what you wear? When you wear nice clothes are you telling me that you make lots of money and that's what you have to offer me?

I first saw this thread a while ago, and my immediate urge was to type...

The first thing all of the nerdy programmers notice is....

That said, it's sad to see women objectifying themselves for the sake of earning a few bucks, when they could've gotten an honest job, (Pardon the pun).

@ above post, no. (I'm broke)

Have to call you on this one.

I realize this may just be humor to you but how important is it to girls to find a rich man? Is it more important than finding a nice man who makes you happy?

That she's a pretty girl who programs for a living. How hot is that? Besides , I'm still waiting to hear more about the work she does.

That depends. If I'm wearing a $10K suit to McDonald's, YES. If I'm sporting gold chains and silver watches, etc., then YES. Essentially how you dress is a sort of body language communicating to the world how you want to be perceived. Somebody that wears a lot of "bling", as some people call it, is advertising money. Somebody that wears revealing clothing is advertising sex. Humans are animals and IIRC something like 95% of communication is believed to be body language. What do you think your body communicates when you dress scantily? That you're a bright girl with technical skills? Tchya, right.

Do you honestly expect to have a meaningful technical discussion with men when you look you just came from turning tricks? They will be looking at your body and it's not completely their fault. If that's the message you're sending then you can't blame them for interpreting it.

Please understand that the W2 thing is purely sarcasm. I often (usually) date men that make less money than I do. That is the least of my concerns when it comes to relationships (esp since I aim to have a house-husband one day).

As far as your other comment, thank you. As far as the work I do right now it's pretty boring. I have a horribly made application for a fortune 500 company that I am currently trying to patch in order to do some publishing (the app publishes "campaings" can't really go to much more into it). I just started working on this a month or so ago. I was formerly with GlobalGrind.com ond others. My job right now is pretty tedious, I'm excited about the rewrit eof the app, but I'm the lone developer on this project which is very daunting and new for me. Even a bit frustrating at times since it was poorly designed origionally.

I'm curious what you meant by capitalize.

How on Earth can she possibly answer that? Sure, she can answer for herself, but not for all girls. I know lots of women that married rich husbands for their money, when they died, it wasn't a month before they found a new one. I also happen to know some of the "good" (IMO) type of women that are not with a man purely because of their money.

But lets face it, to some degree, money is important. I don't buy that "only love matters" bullshit. Lets see how love will pay all the living expenses.

Where are my manners? Welcome to Allegro.cc, I hope you'll enjoy your stay. Be nice to us.

This thread worries me. I hope this is the only thread where everyone only wants to discuss sexual matters with Sara. I hope Sara will join any other discussion just as anyone, not as every nerd's daydream, that unintentionally will turn the threads off topic.

That said, welcome to the community, Sara. I hope you will make a game some day. Why not something for girls age 15 - 30.

That's pathetic.
Also, you entered a community forum without knocking.

And you are a girl, which makes just everything acceptable again. Even more than that.
Welcome to Allegro.cc

That sucks. Hope you get more interesting projects in the future.

Well , I'm glad not all girls are obsessed with money , that's nice to hear.

@Vanneto - One girls opinion on the matter is more than none...

Fixed.
Why not? The possibility of an intelligent conversation doesn't stop because someone looks pretty. If it does for you , then that's sad.

Well I wish you luck and patience. If you need help on anything , you may find some good answers here at a.cc. I understand you can't share some of the things that you're working on due to employment issues and that's okay.

I never said it does. You're twisting my words. Generally when women are described as pretty or beautiful it's because they're actually attractive and are usually dressed relatively conservatively. Generally the words sexy or hot are used to describe a more revealing look because it communicates sex. I've never heard the word pretty used by anybody past puberty to describe a woman wearing revealing clothing.

Fuck. Every time a girl posts in a thread it asplodes. Stop that.

Yeah, this thread kinda turned scary...

I still don't believe it is really a girl. We have yet to see that a.cc picture proof or any type of other proof.

Perhaps it's because I work in an environment where most women are dressed like that, but I hear it all the time.

Keep calm people ...or you'll scare her away.

Quoted for truth. (And by judging from all the noise in this thread, it's already going into that direction.)

Go back to working on your games guys.

"She" hasn't proved she is really Sarah Chipps yet....

True, but the sooner the impostor thinks we've fallen for it, the sooner he is likely to gleefully reveal his deception.

Yeah basically . I tried to recruit a geek girl way back when, but she left.

Sara Chipps: Apologies for the rough questions on your first thread... We're not all like that.

I have to ask though: How come you have two different last names?

Fixed.

I, personally, think its ignorant, antiquated, and primal to consider what people wear as anything but a way they are expressing themselves.

However, I will say that in business situations I will dress professionally in a way that is not considered provacative. Only because that is what is socially accepted.

Let me tell you something though, I run every day, I watch everything I eat, I bust my ass at the gym for hours every week. What you think is an advertisement for prostitution I think is me showing off my hard work and dedication. So, you can think whatever the hell you want, I know I'm proud of the work I've put in and will express myself however I want.

I guess we are free to disagree on this one.

PS Jolene is my middle name

That's rubbish. People dress the way they do based on how it makes them feel. If you've got a fit and healthy body, dressing "revealingly" will make you feel good even if you're doing nothing other than walking around your own home. Obviously how you feel about yourself is partially derived from how others feel about you, so there must be some weighting towards what is socially acceptable.

Nobody propositions me when I walk around scantily clad .

The women I see habitually wearing revealing clothing seem to be "trying too hard". That is, there is something broken about them (such as alcoholism) that they need to increase the bait to get a guy for even a while.

So basically people don't get in shape to be healthy, but to advertise the fact that they are healthy... and that's what makes them feel good. If there was nobody to look at them, then they wouldn't bother staying in shape. That's kind of pathetic.

Now personally, I keep my body fully covered at all times because otherwise the girls are all over me. I even have to spray myself with girl repellent.

in these picture am I advertising prostutution or trying to hard?

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I'm not wearing much in any of them. Am I advertising that I want to get paid for sex? Am I not allowed to dress this way without expecting to be treated like trash in your society?

Your opinion of what "revealing" is seems to be much more conservative than mine.

I must confess that I feel uncomfortable around women dressed more conservatively than Sara in some of those pics. Perhaps it's from growing up in a society where women were expected to wear hats in church. Although I do think you look very nice Sara, in all honesty I would avoid dating someone who dresses like you because of my large and conservative family.

It depends if you are asking a Puritan or bamccaig. The former, probably not. The latter, of course, because he likes to argue and would continue even if you were complete with a hijab.

Still waiting for a pic with a piece of paper reading a.cc or something similar to prove it's you.

Sorry to say this Sara, but if you were dressed like that here, you would have been arrested, tortured and fed to the rabid crocodiles! I mean, you cant go around like that!

Still, we need more proof that you are really the girl in the pictures!

where do you live? asia somewhere?

ok, I will, I'm sick as F right now but I will do it this afternoon, I can't be responsible for what my hair looks like right now though.,

Hum, that was an unexpected turn of events, I have to make a post in this thread now! Having nothing more to contribute, I'll just say hello and welcome.

Where do you live, the 18th century?

To Sara: why do you care whether these people believe you?

If you were dressed like that here, I would give you a high five.

Oh common, the rabid crocodiles should have given away the joke. Actually, she is not dressed revealing at all.

You should see how some girls dress on Friday nights here.

Someone close this thread!

You've given quite enough evidence. There are always going to be a few who are overly suspicious. Usually because they're still sore from the last time they were taken for a ride by some fat bloke with a neckbeard.

I thought Eastern Europe was still pretty bad. I have a Romanian friend who tells me she was beaten up by an old women for wearing trousers.

"Hey, that girl's wearing trousers! Let's chase her and beat her up!"
"There's no point. We'll never catch her in these ridiculous billowy skirts."

Good one!

See? I was right. Bamccaig is sexist and confused. I'm surprised our British perv a.k.a. Phipps hasn't shown up yet.

We should turn this into A.cc's version of The Bachelorette.

I pick wearetheborg ... oh wait, it's lady's choice ...

Count me out.

Heheh, this thread is rich.

Hello everyone.

My name is Peter and I am a segment producer for Channel 9 News in Secaucus, NJ. You may know us as "My9". We are doing a human interest story on women making their way in the Web 2.0 world, and Sara will be one of the people we're focusing on. We also have a 14-yr-old from Westfield, NJ who created a super cool Facebook support group for young teen girls with body issues.

Sara mentioned this thread so I joined to see what the discussion was all about. I see that Sara's appearance on this board has caused a stir, so that might make for an interesting angle in the story!

If anyone wants to comment, and is willing to appear on TV, please contact me through private messages.

Imminent.

WTF!!? That was Yves all along?

Close the thread, the TV guys are all over the place!

Web 2.0 world? What the...? Well, its for T.V., so might want to put in as much bullshit as possible.

EDIT:

The more I actually read the previous posts, the more I agree with bammcaig. But I didn't actually read his posts so I don't actually know for sure what I'm agreeing to.

I'll just say this. If you dress like a slut, you'll be perceived as a slut, if you dress like a businesswoman/man, you'll be perceived as such, etc.

Sure, I agree. If some woman dresses in fishnets, a miniskirt so short that it would almost be the same if there would be none. Only something light for the torso etc. What the fuck else could they be expressing as being a slut?

I mean, you can't argue that if you dress like that, in society, you would be branded as a slut. Sure, that doesn't mean you are one, but still, you give that impression.

Daaayaam gyal, you were asked not to advertise this site on your blog and you decide to bring the tv crew instead! loollll

I haven't laughed this hard at a thread in a very long time.

This thread just transcended into epic richness.

Guys, you have got to stop this NOW! If A.cc gets put on TV for harassing a female we WILL be Slashdotted! A.cc will DIE! STOP THE MADNESS!!!

I'm digging for info on this Peter Bol guy and I'm not finding anything related to channel 9 of Syracuse NY, although the station is legit.....

This thread is fun, even for Allegro

First I was like "meh, female programmer... big deal" then "why is this thread not dead yet?", so I opened it and saw that Sara decided to join us (or not, depending on the "sign with a.cc or GTFO"-variable)... Interesting turn of events.

I'm not going to go into this discussion (again...), but you should feel free to ignore just about anything bammccaig says on the subject - it's not the general opinion (at least not where I come from).

Anyway, welcome to allegro.cc! I was going to say that you shouldn't expect special treatment because of your boobs gender, but I would be lying...

Also, I really hope this Peter Bol character is a joke, seriously... THIS IS NOT NEWS.

Oh. My. God.
This is a serious question to some of you guys (you know who you are): have you ever seen a girl before?

Honestly, some posts up here are beyond believable.

(EDIT: oh yes, welcome ).

Wait a minute: Why are "Sara's" images linking from:

http://www.allegro.cc/images/rcache/c4af9af8a3e263c39d42ec9915055229.jpg

wtf is rcache?

It's A.cc's cache that buffers all images linked from other websites.
I think, but it's been doing that to images linked with [ img ] tags for a while now (try it!)

Every image that you link to and it isn't from allegro.cc gets cached. I guess its for faster loading times and the fact that the external host can die and the images are still available.

BTW nonnus, stop trying to steer this thread off-topic!

Whoa, whoa, if you're going to post something NSFW, warn people! :o

Kidding, of course. If you are, you fail. You actually look respectfully beautiful in those pictures. Is that one girl wearing a corset!?

The only thing remotely exposed is your legs... And I don't mean right to the hip... Albeit, the skirts in some of those pictures look a little short, but it can obviously get a lot more extreme. In particular:

You're welcome to wear whatever you want, but it WILL have an effect on how people interact with you, especially guys. Also, do NOT complain when males of any age take an open opportunity to look up a woman's skirt. You're the one wearing an open door instead of a wall. Would you undress in a room with an open door and not expect passing guys to peek in? Not if you had any sense. It's really just a fact of life, IMO.

As Ron White said, "...Once you've seen one woman naked, you wanna see the rest of 'em naked." Essentially don't complain about men objectifying you if you dress like you want them to.

IMO, if a female wants to be respected in a male dominated industry then she shouldn't draw unnecessary attention to her gender. Firstly, it screams I don't quite fit in and, secondly, it distracts men from what matters (and by that I mean your abilities applicable to the industry). Of course, it's also important to strive to be successful in the industry as any successful male would do.

A hijab!? Are you mad!? What about her feet! Huh!? HUH!?

No, I'm honest. You just don't like the truth. As is typical, the women seem to want the best of both worlds. You want guys to gawk at you, but just wish those fucking guys would stop gawking at you!

bamcciag: except for all the men here don't like your "truth", either. You could say we're all females posing as males online, though, which would be a new twist on irony. Personally, I think you should just embrace the word "chauvinist".

Ooh, pick me, pick me!

bamccaig,
Thank for for the kind word. I understand your view point. I tend to be crazy fem about this concept and think I should be respected just as much naked as I am clothed. I do think that women should be allowed to wear whatever they want and not expect consequences.

I was homeschooled through most of my youth, but when I went to regular school my parents sent me to religious school. Once I was in a bible class and the teacher said something in the vain of "If a girl is wearing a bikini and she gets raped it is her fault." Even now thinking about that i want to punch that ignorant F in the face.

I, for one, don't think tastefully catching a few looks is a horrible thing. There have been many times I've been left out being a woman... not invited on glof outings, go go bar trips.... I know there is nothign dignified or noble about using sexuality to get ahead... but I wont let being uptight about things leave me behind. One of those "nudge nudge wink wink" type things that sometimes its easier to overlook.

Did you go to the same school as bamccaig? That is his belief as well!

See my thread. Before you fly off the handle though, take the time to read through the thread, or at least read my response to BAF below.

Originally when you used 'F' I assumed you were censoring fuck, but now I'm not so sure since it doesn't fit quite as well... What's the 'F' for?

There you go putting keystrokes in my keyboard buffer again.

Just because I have no sympathy doesn't mean I'm saying she is to blame. However, one could say she provoked it. Obviously rape is rape and I don't condone it, but I also don't recommend doing anything to provoke it. Shit can happen.

Notable posts of mine from that thread: [1][2]

Either you're a very uncaring asshole, you're the one who raped her (or a serial rapist), or you think she brought it on herself if you don't have sympathy for her.

I'm not reading that thread.

Because if I read that thread and gut you with a steak knife and wrap my Christmas tree with your intestines I'm not saying you are to blame, but one could say you did provoke it.

pwnd

Fuck can be, and often is, used as a noun.

pwnt.

Perhaps the money analogy is a little less sensitive. Who has sympathy for a man "blinged up" getting robbed? Probably not many. If he was dressed more conservatively he would be much less likely to be targeted. That's essentially all I was going for. Acting a certain way just because in a perfect world it has no consequences is a dangerous way to live in the real world.

I admitted in the other thread that "...it was mostly just an offensive, controversial, and ignorant way of saying I disagree with dressing skimpy." If somebody I care about ever gets raped I will be furious and can't say what I'll do, but murder would probably cross my mind more than once.

hmmm

I respect your opinion but I completely disagree with you. I believe we are all constantly responsible for our own actions. There is never an excuse to mistreat another, besides in defense of someone's safety. Never. No matter what they wear, say, or do. Now there are times where you can totally see someone's reasoning, like if a family member is hurt... but that doesn't make it ok.

New girl++

To paraphrase the doctor of love Chris Rock, "now, ladies, just because you dress a certain way, doesn't mean you are a certain way. This is true. But you have to help us, because it is damn confusing."

Oh great. We now have a Feminazi on board. Fun times ahead.

bamccaig , take another look at the XKCD cartoon 322 you so ironically linked to.
Kindly direct your attention to this section :

And then note that the general consensus here is :

Do NOT tell women not to complain when men look up their skirts. It's called respect , learn some.

So women should pretend to be men huh? Don't draw unnecessary attention to their gender? What does that mean? Get short haircuts and strap all their curves down flat? If a man can't do their job because there are female employees around , if I was boss , I'd fire them.

Girls like positive attention , not foaming at the mouth like a rabid dog.

Everyone likes to look good , that does not mean they want to be objectified.

In your opinion that puts part of the blame on her. That's bullshit.

If you don't have any sympathy for people who have been forcefully violated (it's not their fault in any case) , you might as well be condoning it. I personally know someone it's happened to and trust me , they're not the same anymore. When we were dating she always had to sleep away from the wall because she needed to feel in control (that's what I think anyway). She had problems with bitterness and resentment for many years after the fact. I do not appreciate your blatant ignorance and disrespect for women and ask that you kindly refrain from arguing it further.

To sum it up :

Hardly. All Sara did was use bamccaig's so-called line of reasoning to illustrate the fact that he was wrong.

Time to sum up the thread....

1) A bunch of posts about objectifying women.
2) A new female member making a few posts which led to a thread war (No offense, new member, it's good to have a nice disscussion like this)
3) An advertisement which is absolutely stupid. (Offense intended)
4) A thread lock
5)
6) Profit?

We're about at step four.

Yeah, its been said, but there is a difference between dressing "nice", attractively and sexily. You're free to pick which ever one you want, but make sure you know which is which

WTF guys (and gals!). I just read this thread and I have to say that you're all a little crazy. We all knew bamccaig was nuts but so are the rest of you. Sara is a little off balance too. I always find home schooled/religious school people to be, at least somewhat, socially 'different'. bah! enough with this thread. Close it already!

For clarification purposes, does "the rest of you" refer to anyone who's views resemble bammcaig's, anyone who has posted in this thread, or every user of this site?

Perhaps, Goalie Ca, we are simply so rational your mind cannot comprehend it. Except for Bamccaig; I'll agree he is nuts.

I don't understand people who post in threads asking us to close them... Why are you making the thread longer by posting if you want it closed?

As I once said, "It is essential the world be made aware of ones silence, even if it means breaking that silence to make the world aware." Such behavior as this follows similar lines, I'd assume.

Of course, I did just answer a rhetorical question, so I'm no longer so certain I am fit to comment on my own qualities of sanity.

[edit]
I blame Vannetto for me quoting myself.

haven't seen this thread again until now.

What an epic turn of events!!!

I LOVE A.cc!!

Well, I was not on that topic since the XNA/Allegro war part, and I must said that reading the whole shit who just followed my post is ... scary !

Bammcaig, out of my view, you really need to grow and stop being a 'cul béni'. If you were a French, living near me, I would gracefully burn some few litter of gas oil to come and kick your silly butt until blood.

Nonnus, well, we all know you enough, there is nothing more to say ;-p

SaraJo, interesting. I think you are a real (or a really advanced type of bot ;-p)
It's really strange to see an IT woman ;-p

Keep coming there sometimes, we guys all need some girl driven talk ;-p (Isn't it, WeAreTheBorg ? ;-p)

Last, well,

SECONDED !

I love it too. Though all the text makes my head sleepy so I only read the most interesting looking posts...

SaraJo: Are you gonna learn Allegro and make some shitty games now? Maybe do a screenhack?

Yeah ! Goude Aïdéa ! Let's have a screenhack !

I'd like a "Pick-One-of-Your-Unfinished-Projects-And-Finish-It" hack. That could go on until 1th of August. Everyone could take part with several entries.

That one is not badd too, I admit.

Whoa, I skip a thread for a couple of days and look what I miss. New girl posts; 10 pages incoming.

I'll read all this crap later, but I'm still pretty gender-neutral on programmers in general so I don't see the fuss. Grats on kicking butt in a field stereotypically dominated by guys, and, um ... welcome to the boards? I don't even want to know why you had to (apparently) post pictures of your buddies ...

EDIT: Wow, I just skimmed this. OMG. I'm coming back here with popcorn.

So, did anyone get in touch with Peter Bol? Why did he ask for a PM, and not provide a work email? That's the way producers in this country do it.

And why hasn't Ms Chipps posted a photo with some sign to prove she is real to BAF? Is she toying with the poor smitten lad? Or did our resident Sony fanboy scare her off?

AKA the never-ending hack

These questions and more, answered! In next week's The Allegro Chronicles.

nonnus: call her up and ask her why she disappeared!

Queue the theme music to Days of our Lives.

I have 26 of those. Guess I have a lot to choose from.

I laughed like crazy when I read that. I'm still laughing. "until blood". I love your sentences.

Meh, it's hard to translate my favourite tongue's bashing sentence into English, but sometimes it's understantable ;-p

Re: Female attire and whether or not this justifies rape: I think it's down to poor self-control of the observer and not the victim asking for it. In a Naturist colony, it is possible to be completely naked in an entirely non-sexual way. Different societies have different standards for how much flesh a woman can show. At one extreme, there's the naturists, and at the other end, those who force women to were burquas. As for my own opinion on clothing, if it covers the rude bits and keeps you warm, it's sufficient.

This!
Perhaps if enough girls join a.cc, the "ZOMG it's a girl!" type posts might stop. Girls do join a.cc from time to time so just get used to it.

SaraJo: Welcome to Allegro.cc - we like cats and we like to send threads spinning wildly off-topic.

AE.

Hmm, crazy thread, and kind of reminds me of the old IRC days when everybody was a girl.

It really doesn't matter if she is who she says she is, does it? If she sticks around and eventually does a game or something, that will be cool. Lord knows there aren't enough games getting done around here, and I'm horrible at finishing projects myself.

I've got a wife and 3 daughters. That's enough girls to last me the rest of my life

But welcome to a.cc Sara.

That one made my day

I just try to imagine a Borat like character reading his posts.

I don't know if I should hurt or laught.
Well, as I am in doubt, I give you a "BAFfe" ;-p

Yeah I'm still tempted to go with the fake person theory. All the same though, I'll play along.

If she makes a game it would be great, I think she said shes not into game development so much however.

Peeks out from basement Is it locked yet?

Right. That's because rape has nothing to do with being seductively dressed (all the more so because most instances of rape happen at home, on an average day, by someone well known to the victim). Which is even more appalling.

But I guess all that was covered in the other thread already.

This one's for y'all seductive clothing results in rape people.

No! You need to call the soap opera "As The Sprite Rotates" (from As the World Turns)

Or how about "As the rectangle fills"?

AE.

Great job, people. You scared her away too. Now I'll never find out if her cute friend in the ripped safari outfit is single.

I can only have so much fun.