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Wikipedia blackout
Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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My point still stands.

How so? There is no legal or moral obligation for Wikipedia (the real-world organization) to remain neutral on issues that they feel threaten their existence.

Wikipedia (the online encyclopedia) does have a few obligations in this regard, most notably their promise to keep articles as neutral as possible (and I think the fact that the Wikipedia community is really anal about things like "citation needed" and such reflects their commitment in this regard).

However, on the whole SOPA/PIPA issue, it's the organization speaking, not the encyclopedia, which should be perfectly clear from the writing style alone. The same can be said about those annoying fundraiser nag banners - they are certainly neither neutral nor relevant to the articles they are added to, but they were never supposed to be.

Looking at the SOPA article (the actual Wikipedia article, that is), I'd say it's a bit lop-sided in that long sections are devoted to criticism against the proposed bill, but the article does seem to make quite an effort in remaining neutral, and the lop-sidedness could simply be a result of opponent views being more diverse and verbose than the supporters' side, hence requiring more words to accurately paraphrase.

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Me make music: Triofobie
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"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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Jibba jabba.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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There is no legal or moral obligation for Wikipedia (the real-world organization) to remain neutral on issues that they feel threaten their existence.

Using the user created encyclopedia as a platform to promote their agendas is wrong, no matter how important they think it is.

Imagine if you took your Encyclopedia Britannica W book off the shelf today to read about women, and opened it up, and (to your amazement) every page was blacked out with a blurb about how the Internet was going to destroy their business, and you should write your representative to complain about how many jobs would be lost.

Of course that is just a silly analogy, so you will be wasting your time poking holes in it, but at some level it is similar.

Wikipedia primarily exists because real people volunteer their time and donate money. I'm sure some of those people are pro-SOPA. By Wikipedia abusing their position, they alienate those people from contributing in the future. The site will become more and more skewed toward people who align themselves with Wikipedia's public nature. And for a site that must maintain a balance to remain neutral, that is dangerous.

I wouldn't mind as much if they used an organizational Wikipedia Foundation website to talk about SOPA and their official positions. But blacking out all the user generated content with their own spin is crossing the line.

REVISION:

I would never use Allegro.cc to promote my personal agendas. Of course, I'll post my opinions on threads like this, but I would never black out the website because I don't like my mailman.

Yes, it's my website. Yes, I pay for it. Yes, I run it.

But the content is overwhelmingly user generated, and as such, using it as my personal soapbox would be an abuse of the implied relationship between me and the people who contribute to the site.

i.e., If I'm going to complain about the weather, I'll do it within the same context that any other user can.

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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I wouldn't mind as much if they used an organizational Wikipedia Foundation website to talk about SOPA and their official positions. But blacking out all the user generated content with their own spin is crossing the line.

Point taken. This one ("Wikipedia should not abuse their position to rally against SOPA") is quite different from your original argument though ("Wikipedia should not take a position regarding SOPA"). The original argument would be analogous to you not stating any personal opinions on your website at all, whether that be in forum posts, a.cc announcements, support pages, etc.

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Me make music: Triofobie
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"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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The original argument would be analogous to you not stating any personal opinions on your website at all, whether that be in forum posts, a.cc announcements, support pages, etc.

Except that:

  1. the purpose of Allegro.cc isn't to provide unbiased information to the general public (SDL STINKS!), and

  2. it would be more like me saying that "Allegro.cc is anti-kittens" in such a way that it looks official. i.e., Speaking on behalf of a larger community.

So none of my arguments really apply to this site (or most other sites). Yet, I still would not unfairly use the site as a soapbox.

But even with my "original" argument, I was equating Wikipedia with the site itself. i.e., If employees (or contributors) want to voice their personal opinions on the talk pages where appropriate, then that's fine as long as they are using the site as anybody else can.

The Wikimedia Foundation is free to take sides on issues they feel are relevant, but it shouldn't make its way onto Wikipedia just like you wouldn't be allowed to write an article about yourself, let alone overwrite every page with it.

An appropriate thing would be to list The Wikimedia Foundation as anti-SOPA on some page that lists for/against, along with a source to their own blog.

The scary thing (from a slippery slope point of view) is that the Wikimedia Foundation could black out the Wikipedia site for any reason and they'd get the same reaction from people: "Why is this site down? RAGE!" They could get thousands and thousands of people to take action for or against any cause. So the "success" of a blackout isn't justification of its legitimacy.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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it shouldn't make its way onto Wikipedia just like you wouldn't be allowed to write an article about yourself, let alone overwrite every page with it.

Can you imagine buying a set of the Britannica only to have those little subscription leaflets falling out everywhere? ;D

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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I went to the Brittanica website and entered 'design pattern' and it came back with an offer of reading a book by Darwin or something.

I think the blackout did nothing. What would have been better is if every company on the against list (including Google, Microsoft, etc) got together and turned off their main sites for the day providing no means of any kind of search and sending a direct message to those in authority.

Neil.
MAME Cabinet Blog / AXL LIBRARY (a games framework) / AXL Documentation and Tutorial

wii:0356-1384-6687-2022, kart:3308-4806-6002. XBOX:chucklepie

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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It actually did do something. There was a massive flood of people calling their leaders. And a bunch of politicians have now distanced themselves from the bills, so that SOPA looks like it won't have the votes needed to pass anymore.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Yeah, SOPA and PIPA definitely lost support in the Senate. So ... short-term mission accomplished.

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Megaupload.com was forced offline today. Mission accomplished.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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SOPA/PIPA will just keep getting revised til they get it passed then they will add things to it so they can still achieve their goal. It wouldn't matter if the whole US boycotted the net to fight it, congress will eventually get it passed. If not this year they will get it passed in the future. Just be ready to bend over and enjoy the ride.

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Megaupload.com was forced offline today. Mission accomplished.

So were the U.S. Department of Justice, the MPAA, the RIAA, Universal Music, the U.S. Copyright office, and BMI. Just sayin'.

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Dario ff
Member #10,065
August 2008
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I just checked that. Is it DDOS? Is it DDOS caused by the exploit in the Call of Duty 4 servers? ;D

TranslatorHack 2010, a human translation chain in a.cc.
My games: [GiftCraft] - [Blocky Rhythm[SH2011]] - [Elven Revolution] - [Dune Smasher!]

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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So were the U.S. Department of Justice, the MPAA, the RIAA, Universal Music, the U.S. Copyright office, and BMI. Just sayin'.

So now a dozen people or so will be arrested and jailed for 20 years for a few minutes of fun. Mission accomplished.

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

gnolam said:

I assume every URL tracker shortener link is Goatse. :P

The purpose of the URL tracker shortener link was to prevent allegro.cc from rewriting the post link URL, so that the page would reload and the yellow post highlight would move as intended ;)

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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{"name":"p8ImI.png","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/b\/2\/b2a6857fd8aeabea8f8b80b54f013f04.png","w":444,"h":492,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/b\/2\/b2a6857fd8aeabea8f8b80b54f013f04"}p8ImI.png

Felix-The-Ghost
Member #9,729
April 2008
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That might make more sense if Michael was actually still alive.

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BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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Dario ff
Member #10,065
August 2008
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Well duh, it's not a valid argument, you can't kill someone twice.

...

>:(

TranslatorHack 2010, a human translation chain in a.cc.
My games: [GiftCraft] - [Blocky Rhythm[SH2011]] - [Elven Revolution] - [Dune Smasher!]

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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That might make more sense if Michael was actually still alive.

Huh?! Apparently we have to speak the language of WTF?! in order to understand that.

Also, as I've stated time and time again the years spend for murder is case by case basis. If they could have proved he intentionally gave him the medicine he would have got 15-20 years or more. Got to love the law, Georgia just executed a guy that suddenly proof came out that he hadn't done the crime he was given the death penalty for but the Governor nor the lawyers wanted to open the case again to pursue the new evidence. Casey Anthony got away with murdering her own daughter. Seriously F*CKED UP!

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Felix's argument might be more that there's no point in defending the artist's income if the artist is dead.

Let's bump off some Hollywood directors \o/

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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His point is still invalid. All of his income goes to his children so every CD bought goes to them. His abusive father was pissed because he left everything to his family minus his father (which I find funny, a final F*ck You from the grave).

Dario ff
Member #10,065
August 2008
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Anyone received this in their e-mail?

Quote:

Thank you for taking action!

Hi Dario
Last week you stood with millions of Americans to protect online freedom and innovation. Congress heard you, and delayed consideration of the PIPA and SOPA bills, which -- if enacted -- would censor the Web and impose harmful regulations on American businesses.

We hope that today you will join us in thanking your representatives for protecting the Internet.

And we want to thank you, again, for your actions last week. We are humbled that so many of you rallied around what we believe is the most transformative invention in history.

Until next time,
The Google team

Glad to help as a proud citizen of the state of New Mexico.[1]

References

  1. (I think I used that zip code) :P

TranslatorHack 2010, a human translation chain in a.cc.
My games: [GiftCraft] - [Blocky Rhythm[SH2011]] - [Elven Revolution] - [Dune Smasher!]

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

Quote:

The Google team

Is that why I can't read links to Google++ because I haven't signed up for their "do no evil" crap?

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

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